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[wright1978]

Babi_Siha wrote...

jtav wrote...

My actual thoughts are not suitable for public consumption. But this ethos surrounding Miranda's role--that normalcy is good and exception is evil--poisons even the good. She's offensive in how small, weak, and petty she is. She needs to be fixed. I have no hope of content, but the way she's been dismantled...*froths*

I have to agree with you on that, with a war going and Ori being her only concern showed how selfish and petty the writers mde her. I have no hope anymore as well, if we get more character content it will be about the ME3 squads.

Thankfully there's head-canon to combat character assassination.
I'm still clinging to hope, though i fully expect Omega will eventually arrive and snuff out that hope with a complete absence of Miranda Cerberus content.

[Dr. Doctor]

I think that the Omega DLC is going to focus a lot more Aria and Petrovsky than Miranda. While there's a lot that needs to be rectified with her story arc adding more of a plot to the Cerberus arc in ME3 is welcome.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I'M JUST WARNING YOU KRUKOW. SOME PEOPLE GET FRUSTRATED WHEN THAT WORD IS MIXED WITH THE WORD AESTHETIC.

^ That's a joke Ieldra.

I repeat that outside of art school, the term "fascist aesthetic" is not a neutral term.  Most people don't even understand what it means and that it isn't necessarily tied to the political ideology. So if you use it to categorize elements of the Mass Effect universe - which may or may not be appropriate here and there - you need to explain exactly what you mean when you use the term, *and* make a disclaimer about not talking about politics.

Regarding Cerberus, it is a nationalist organization but otherwise almost the antithesis of fascist: no anti-intellectualism, no mythologizing of the past, no mobilization of the masses. I could go on. I'm allergic to the use of the term as describing any kind of politically-motivated evil this side of religious fundamentalism.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
My actual thoughts are not suitable for public consumption. But this ethos surrounding Miranda's role--that normalcy is good and exception is evil--poisons even the good. She's offensive in how small, weak, and petty she is. She needs to be fixed. I have no hope of content, but the way she's been dismantled...*froths*

Yep, I agree. I brought this up with Chris Priestly at GamesCom - that it appeared almost like all controversy was removed from characters in order to make them more mainstream and conventional, and that Miranda suffered the most from it. He answered he could see how we could have that impression but couldn't comment further because we'd have to ask the writers about it.  Too bad we won't get an answer from the writers.

Anyway, I say ME2 Miranda still exists and her new writer tried unsuccessfully to bury her under a sh*tload of stereotypes. For me, Miranda as she was in ME2 defined the character, that can't be taken away by applying a layer of conventional paint. But I resent the attempt nonetheless, especially since new players will see the mutilated character first.

[wright1978]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I think that the Omega DLC is going to focus a lot more Aria and Petrovsky than Miranda. While there's a lot that needs to be rectified with her story arc adding more of a plot to the Cerberus arc in ME3 is welcome.

Well my fear is that it will focus on Aria and Petrovsky will be a boss fight.
I'm still holding out hope for a balanced tale and one aspect i would like to see is Miranda(if alive) attempting to recruit Petrovsky and his men to the renegade Cerberus fold.

[Mavqt]

wright1978 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I think that the Omega DLC is going to focus a lot more Aria and Petrovsky than Miranda. While there's a lot that needs to be rectified with her story arc adding more of a plot to the Cerberus arc in ME3 is welcome.

Well my fear is that it will focus on Aria and Petrovsky will be a boss fight.
I'm still holding out hope for a balanced tale and one aspect i would like to see is Miranda(if alive) attempting to recruit Petrovsky and his men to the renegade Cerberus fold.

Isn't Miranda running solo until she joins the alliance after Sanctuary?

Of cause Omega will focus on Aria and Petrovsky (If bioware decide to do it.) and I don't see Miranda getting involved with that useless their is infomation on her sister (which I personally doubt there will be), or until after Sanctuary.

Didn't mean it to sound like a bash if it does. Just my opinion.

[wright1978]

mavqt wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...

I think that the Omega DLC is going to focus a lot more Aria and Petrovsky than Miranda. While there's a lot that needs to be rectified with her story arc adding more of a plot to the Cerberus arc in ME3 is welcome.

Well my fear is that it will focus on Aria and Petrovsky will be a boss fight.
I'm still holding out hope for a balanced tale and one aspect i would like to see is Miranda(if alive) attempting to recruit Petrovsky and his men to the renegade Cerberus fold.

Isn't Miranda running solo until she joins the alliance after Sanctuary?

Of cause Omega will focus on Aria and Petrovsky (If bioware decide to do it.) and I don't see Miranda getting involved with that useless their is infomation on her sister (which I personally doubt there will be), or until after Sanctuary.

Didn't mean it to sound like a bash if it does. Just my opinion.

Well for one Miranda never joins the alliance
For 2 Miranda puts together a team of Cerberus renegades(as evidenced by Liara Shadowbroker e-mail).
Petrovsky is a perfect candidate to be recruited to this faction and the idea that Miranda isn't capable of multi-tasking(searching for Oriana's whereabouts) and building her team of Cerberus renegades is laughable imo.

[Mavqt]

Well, didn't she say that offered her services to the alliance/war effort?
And Doesn't she only start building the team after finding Ori?

[wright1978]

mavqt wrote...

Well, didn't she say that offered her services to the alliance/war effort?
And Doesn't she only start building the team after finding Ori?

Only in the same way the Krogan/Quarian/Geth/Salarian/asari/turian have. Everyone is pitching in, that doesn't mean they are signing on with the alliance.

There's no evidence as to when she starts building the team. Team and resources need to be cultivated. I'd view it as highly unlikely it happened overnight. I find it highly plausible and desirable(given her atrciously unbalanced  content) that she be preparing and recruiting before sanctuary.

[Mavqt]

I didn't say it was over night. I veiw the timeframe from Sanctuary to earth as about 2 months. if not more. Mainly due to removing the reaper heart from Cronos station and into the Crucible, along with other things.

[wright1978]

mavqt wrote...

I didn't say it was over night. I veiw the timeframe from Sanctuary to earth as about 2 months. if not more. Mainly due to removing the reaper heart from Cronos station and into the Crucible, along with other things.

I don't view it as being anything like that timescale. As i said i see no reason to limit it to post Sanctuary given there is no logical reason why she couldn't and wouldn't  be recruiting and gathering resources whilst at the same time looking for info on Oriana's location.

[Dr. Doctor]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Anyway, I say ME2 Miranda still exists and her new writer tried unsuccessfully to bury her under a sh*tload of stereotypes. For me, Miranda as she was in ME2 defined the character, that can't be taken away by applying a layer of conventional paint. But I resent the attempt nonetheless, especially since new players will see the mutilated character first.

Jay Watamaniuk's issue is that he needs a lot of work at writing female characters. Put it this way, if you swap out Oriana for Sarah, Sanctuary for the Coup, and the apartment scene for a cabin scene congratulations, you have Ash's character in ME3.

There's also the whole "doing more with less" problem. Miranda never brings up her relationship with Cerberus other than the off-hand "I was TIM's second-in-command" line which a) is never elaborated on and doesn't make much sense considering that she was the poster-girl for Cerberus in ME2. Miranda has a lot of content but 90% of it is "Oh I'd like to help you Shepard but my sister is in trouble". The same thing happens with Ash where after her Citadel date she does and says nothing for the bulk of the game. 

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Anyway, I say ME2 Miranda still exists and her new writer tried unsuccessfully to bury her under a sh*tload of stereotypes. For me, Miranda as she was in ME2 defined the character, that can't be taken away by applying a layer of conventional paint. But I resent the attempt nonetheless, especially since new players will see the mutilated character first.

Jay Watamaniuk's issue is that he needs a lot of work at writing female characters. Put it this way, if you swap out Oriana for Sarah, Sanctuary for the Coup, and the apartment scene for a cabin scene congratulations, you have Ash's character in ME3.

There's also the whole "doing more with less" problem. Miranda never brings up her relationship with Cerberus other than the off-hand "I was TIM's second-in-command" line which a) is never elaborated on and doesn't make much sense considering that she was the poster-girl for Cerberus in ME2. Miranda has a lot of content but 90% of it is "Oh I'd like to help you Shepard but my sister is in trouble". The same thing happens with Ash where after her Citadel date she does and says nothing for the bulk of the game.

Yeah, Ashley's content is disappointing as well. Only she never had a personal profile like Miranda's that screams for her to have a big-picture impact and ideas beyond family and duty. 

[hot_heart]

enayasoul wrote...
I read hot_heart's piece on Henry Lawson. I
thought it was really good. He seemed very in character and wasn't to
mean.

Thank you! Some credit must go to lillitheris for helping reshape that aspect.

Taboo-XX wrote...
^ Yes that's the one. He wasn't sure if it was long enough to give him a lot of feedback. It was so good I typed three paragraphs for him.

His sentence structure is what stood out to me. He writes magnificently.

Ah, stop it, you. You'll make me blush.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[Dragon_Claw]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Booze & drugs were involved...

[Ieldra]

The thing is, the series wasn't engineered to perfection. Bioware admitted that. They pretty much made it up bit by bit. Cerberus was never intended as more than a rogue black-ops organisation featuring in some sidequests when ME1 came out. They hadn't set the Reapers' purpose when ME2 came out. They didn't think about that 12 team members in ME2 would present a wee little problem in ME3. They did not plan much at all.

And apparently they didn't even communicate much at all while developing ME3. Else we wouldn't have story elements narratively inconsistent with the ending premise.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 août 2012 - 10:45 .

[sarahann62380]

I don't know if this has been posted in here or not but I thought I should share it with you guys. A group of people put together a romance DLC survey and we finally posted all the results on Monday. It was pretty substantial and what it was is basically asking what you did like, didn't like, what you wish you would have seen in ME3. There was no malice behind this, no demand. It was basically saying, 'Hey, BioWare, please consider our LIs in upcoming DLC.'

Check it out if your'e so inclined: me3cosmiclove.wordpress.com/

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The thing is, the series wasn't engineered to perfection. Bioware admitted that. They pretty much made it up bit by bit. Cerberus was never intended as more than a rogue black-ops organisation featuring in some sidequests when ME1 came out. They hadn't set the Reapers' purpose when ME2 came out. They didn't think about that 12 team members in ME2 would present a wee little problem in ME3. They did not plan much at all.

And apparently they didn't even communicate much at all while developing ME3. Else we wouldn't have story elements narratively inconsistent with the ending premise.

Agreed with most points, but the ME2 plot (Human Reaper) was actually part of a bigger plan from Drew: Dark Energy plot. Walters just ignored that and took over with different views.

I think the problem with ME3's writing was the combination of that concept "we write story as it progresses" and the complete rearrangement of the writing team right before the climax of the trilogy. 
It's already hard to write a story like that if your base concept of the project is "choice and outcome", but the new arrangement of the team might have been the final breakpoint.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 24 août 2012 - 02:07 .

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
My actual thoughts are not suitable for public consumption. But this ethos surrounding Miranda's role--that normalcy is good and exception is evil--poisons even the good. She's offensive in how small, weak, and petty she is. She needs to be fixed. I have no hope of content, but the way she's been dismantled...*froths*

Anyway, I say ME2 Miranda still exists and her new writer tried unsuccessfully to bury her under a sh*tload of stereotypes. For me, Miranda as she was in ME2 defined the character, that can't be taken away by applying a layer of conventional paint. But I resent the attempt nonetheless, especially since new players will see the mutilated character first.

The character is still there it simply exists within a vacuum outside of the visible storyline. She's still out doing exceptional things, you and I both know this. At no point did I think her exceptional talent was considered evil and the normal good. She wants things that are considered normal that's all and that isn't a crazy idea. She IS human after all. This aspect merely took center stage while she was on screen. If we got a DLC stating that she'd been targeting Cerberus resources since she quit it would look better.

There is a far worse issue involving women there. She dies if Shepard breaks up with her. That sends a nasty message to me on a thematic scale. She can't live without him which is entirely ridiculous. No other LI dies if you leave them. This makes me sit and put my face in my hands sometimes.

Also, I found this. It really doesn't relate exactly to what we're talking about here but I was amused at this discovery nonetheless.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 24 août 2012 - 02:12 .

[Taboo]

I did look at that scene again though yesterday.

She is devastated. Look at the way her face trembles and her eyes twitch. As awful as it is to look at it's really well done.