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[Taboo]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I did look at that scene again though yesterday.

She is devastated. Look at the way her face trembles and her eyes twitch. As awful as it is to look at it's really well done.

It is, but I don't think it should drive her so bat **** crazy that it gets her killed.

Of course, it is Shepard.

She's killed because of a gameplay mechanic. That's the issue.

I have no issue with her being upset about it and she very much is but killing her because of it makes me go "WTF?"

It sends a VERY bad message.

[flemm]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

The message it sends about Miranda is that she could just simply not be able to carry on with life after Shepard, which is utterly ridiculous.

I agree with that. I also think it's fine that the scene is emotional. Two very different things.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[hot_heart]

Luis, it's a nice screenshot, for sure, but I think we all saw it on the previous page.

[Taboo]

I think we all rest easier knowing that we won't be choosing that option anyway.

My interest in it is merely from a meta gaming perspective.

Thinking about it past that, much like a lot of things in ME3 will only lead to suffering.

[jtav]

Does anyone else think the slides are a refutation of everything implied by the breakup death? Shepard is dead, but Miranda not only doesn't fall apart, she thrives. In fact, if she survives, all her slides are positive.

[flemm]

mavqt wrote...

Well, didn't she say that offered her services to the alliance/war effort?
And Doesn't she only start building the team after finding Ori?

She is helping, but her team is said to be "independent," and Bailey says something about not being able to officially condone it.

I think it makes more sense to infer that she has been working on this all along. For example, maybe some of the contacts on the Citadel she mentions at the beginning. Not that the dialogue was written with that in mind, but it does make more sense.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else think the slides are a refutation of everything implied by the breakup death? Shepard is dead, but Miranda not only doesn't fall apart, she thrives. In fact, if she survives, all her slides are positive.

Do you know who oversaw the slides for the EC? Patrick Weekes did.

That's why she's the old Miranda in there. It's the character we all fell in love with.

She's perfectly capable of continuing on without Shepard in Control and Synthesis. But she's also entirely capable of loving him when he finds her or she finds him as evidence by the Romanced Destroy slide.

Isn't it a shame that one image represented her better than what was on screen most of the time?

[jtav]

flemm wrote...

mavqt wrote...

Well, didn't she say that offered her services to the alliance/war effort?
And Doesn't she only start building the team after finding Ori?

She is helping, but her team is said to be "independent," and Bailey says something about not being able to officially condone it.

I think it makes more sense to infer that she has been working on this all along. For example, maybe some of the contacts on the Citadel she mentions at the beginning. Not that the dialogue was written with that in mind, but it does make more sense.

Especially if you're like me and only get the email after Cronos.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Isn't it a shame that one image represented her better than what was on screen most of the time?

I certainly think so. And I agree that, if you look at the slides and the flashback, especially all of them together, you can see the Miranda that I want to see.

Modifié par flemm, 24 août 2012 - 03:13 .

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

mavqt wrote...

Well, didn't she say that offered her services to the alliance/war effort?
And Doesn't she only start building the team after finding Ori?

She is helping, but her team is said to be "independent," and Bailey says something about not being able to officially condone it.

I think it makes more sense to infer that she has been working on this all along. For example, maybe some of the contacts on the Citadel she mentions at the beginning. Not that the dialogue was written with that in mind, but it does make more sense.

It would also make a hell of a DLC.

I don't see why we couldn't have a Cerberus DLC with Miranda in there leading an assault on a Cerberus base and have Shepard come and assist with backup.

She'd be the old Miranda again.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Isn't it a shame that one image represented her better than what was on screen most of the time?

I certainly think so. And I agree that, if you look at the slides and the flashback, especially all of them together, you can see the Miranda that I want to see.

I'd like to think that at least for head canon purposes I can see the romanced slide together with the normal one in Destroy.

That way she can still be with Shepard and also be helping rebuild. That's the old Miranda.

[jtav]

And no one else got quite the treatment she did. Most of the characters who got multiple slides (Jacob, Kasumi, Jack, Samara) got a triumphant and a tragic slide. Miranda got three ways of being happy.

Now if I could just get both Destroy slides to fire.

[wright1978]

Miranda's role didn't really leave the sad slide option imo. There's not the variable of Oriana dying and Miranda living as far as i'm aware.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

jtav wrote...

Does anyone else think the slides are a refutation of everything implied by the breakup death? Shepard is dead, but Miranda not only doesn't fall apart, she thrives. In fact, if she survives, all her slides are positive.

Do you know who oversaw the slides for the EC? Patrick Weekes did.

That's why she's the old Miranda in there. It's the character we all fell in love with.

She's perfectly capable of continuing on without Shepard in Control and Synthesis. But she's also entirely capable of loving him when he finds her or she finds him as evidence by the Romanced Destroy slide.

Isn't it a shame that one image represented her better than what was on screen most of the time?

Perhaps two images or three. But yeah, we must look to the EC to find the Miranda we love. The outfit notwithstanding, her flashback image is one of the best in two games, and the slides are really good, especially the Control slide. Well, better a good ending to an unsatisfactory story arc than the other way round.

As for Weekes, give credit where it's due, but be careful about starting a cult. He's a good character writer. If he's a good story writer still remains to be seen. Also while Mac Walters might be responsible for a great many things that went wrong in the trilogy, he also wrote TIM in ME2. I'm a bit wary of all this glorifying and demonizing.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

And no one else got quite the treatment she did. Most of the characters who got multiple slides (Jacob, Kasumi, Jack, Samara) got a triumphant and a tragic slide. Miranda got three ways of being happy.

Now if I could just get both Destroy slides to fire.

That may very well have been intentional. Miranda was treated badly enough in the game. I don't think having a scene with her mourning over her sisters grave would have gone over well.

The slides are great and I'll take them without hesitation.

fiendishchicken gets both slides in Destroy by the way. Ask him how to do it.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As for Weekes, give credit where it's due, but be careful about starting a cult. He's a good character writer. If he's a good story writer still remains to be seen. Also while Mac Walters might be responsible for a great many things that went wrong in the trilogy, he also wrote TIM in ME2. I'm a bit wary of all this glorifying and demonizing.

Walters put Vitalism into Synthesis. A **** ton of credibility went down the toilet when introduced what amounts to chi in a science fiction game.

I believe that Karpyshyn wrote TIM in ME2, not Walters. 

As for Weekes, he wrote LotSB or parts of it. I'd say that he's more than competent in that department. I believe he is also a head writer for Leviathan

[CrutchCricket]

The "dies if you break up with her thing" is stupid (if convenient) as a gameplay mechanic and downright insulting if you interpret it as sending the "she can't live without him" message.

That being said it's not all that implausible within the context of the story nor is it a clean break from the EC slides. Though none of my games will ever have this scenario, I interpret it as follows: if Shepard does break up with her, the emotional distress causes her to slip at a critical time. Nothing major (she doesn't just break down), but it happens at the worst possible moment. Butterfly effect and all that ****. Or if you're a fan of Star Wars EU, romanced Shepard is her shatterpoint during the war. By contrast in the epilogue slides, an undisclosed time has passed and while Miranda grieved for his loss, she's had time to move on with her life and do something productive and any slip ups she might have had during the grief period were nowhere near as disastrous.

Conclusion: Same character, similar emotional trauma, different context conditions and timeline.

[krukow]

jtav wrote...

And no one else got quite the treatment she did. Most of the characters who got multiple slides (Jacob, Kasumi, Jack, Samara) got a triumphant and a tragic slide. Miranda got three ways of being happy.

Now if I could just get both Destroy slides to fire.

What's the other one (not stargazer) because I replayed the ending, and didn't get a Miri slide (yes, she survived).

[Taboo]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The "dies if you break up with her thing" is stupid (if convenient) as a gameplay mechanic and downright insulting if you interpret it as sending the "she can't live without him" message.

That being said it's not all that implausible within the context of the story nor is it a clean break from the EC slides. Though none of my games will ever have this scenario, I interpret it as follows: if Shepard does break up with her, the emotional distress causes her to slip at a critical time. Nothing major (she doesn't just break down), but it happens at the worst possible moment. Butterfly effect and all that ****. Or if you're a fan of Star Wars EU, romanced Shepard is her shatterpoint during the war. By contrast in the epilogue slides, an undisclosed time has passed and while Miranda grieved for his loss, she's had time to move on with her life and do something productive and any slip ups she might have had during the grief period were nowhere near as disastrous.

Conclusion: Same character, similar emotional trauma, different context conditions and timeline.

I thought of that as well.

It certainly makes me feel better.

But the possible message being sent is still very troubling.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 24 août 2012 - 03:58 .

[jtav]

Control: Miranda and Ori looking at screens of Reaper Data
Destroy/Synthesis: Miranda looking at plans with Alliance officers. Destroy version is bugged.
Destroy (Romance): Miranda stargazing.

[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...
But the possible message being sent is still very troubling.

Speculation on the message sent is just that. And unlike others in this thread I am actively opposed to speculating on what the writers wanted. I feel it does nothing but provoke senseless arguments which can't be resolved or passive-agressive negativity if unchecked.

Now what message is being recieved however... is indeed troubling.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 24 août 2012 - 04:04 .

[Taboo]

Yes, Miranda's slides are bugged krukow.

Someone made a thread asking if I had seen what I wanted when the EC came out.

I saw everything I wanted to.

[jtav]

I was able to force Jack's once by killing other people who would have shown up. That may be an option.