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[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I don't see why people are so butthurt about her having sentimentality and emotions. That's always been there. Always.

Emotions are fine. Sentimentality is being overly emotional or when emotions unduly interfere with things. As I said, I have no problem with Miranda feeling that way. I have a problem with her emotions overriding her professionalism in a situation that may decide the future of humanity.

What is this I don't even.

TIM has shown to be more than incapable of being the best for humanity at that point.  That's why she quits.

Furthermore it's revealed in ME3 that he didn't care about what happened to Shepard and the crew. He wanted the tech from that base for his own selfish wants.

You aren't helping anyone by giving that base to him. Had it been someone else I would have considered it, but not TIM.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

"We can't afford to send anyone back"

Not the same thing dear. And it works out regardless in that situation.

Sending Mordin back saves all of their lives and doesn't impact the mission.

Not the same thing as going into the base without being prepared and ****ing everyone over.

[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I don't see why people are so butthurt about her having sentimentality and emotions. That's always been there. Always.

Emotions are fine. Sentimentality is being overly emotional or when emotions unduly interfere with things. As I said, I have no problem with Miranda feeling that way. I have a problem with her emotions overriding her professionalism in a situation that may decide the future of humanity.

What is this I don't even.

TIM has shown to be more than incapable of being the best for humanity at that point.  That's why she quits.

Furthermore it's revealed in ME3 that he didn't care about what happened to Shepard and the crew. He wanted the tech from that base for his own selfish wants.

You aren't helping anyone by giving that base to him. Had it been someone else I would have considered it, but not TIM.

That's sort of the point her reasoning should be based on trusting Shep more than she trusts TIM after events that happened.

[hot_heart]

The betrayal line feels like it's linked to the underlying Control theme rather than sentimentality or whatever (Miranda is not the main focus, don't forget). As in, TIM is suggesting making their own Reaper or repurposing the Human Reaper (his dialogue pretty much says so).

It's not phrased in the best way, but I can see why Miranda would be opposed to reusing a load of harvested humans like that.

And we know some of the writing is clumsy in how it presents its ideas.

[Ieldra]

krukow wrote...
And I am saying you are wrong.

WRONG.

You let your emotions override your rationality in this point. A simple assertion that it is wrong does not make it so.

Hundres to thousands of human beings were murdered in that base.  What has occured there makes it wrong to keep it or use it.

Why? If *you* don't proceed to do unethical things with it, why is it wrong?

And the only reason you can argue othewise, is because the people killed are just bits of 1's and 0's.  If you were Miranda, if you had to walk through it, see your fellow man be liquified, you would not feel that way.  It's not f*cking possible.

Please note that I am not justifying what was done there. I am saying that what you do with it matters, not what others did with it. If you proceed to do the same, of course it's unethical. If you do other things with it, it's not.

Edit: Also, this isn't keeping data, it's keeping Auschwitz.  The actual camp.  And the ovens.  WRONG.

Eh.....it still exists. It's a memorial now. You prove my point. People are not doing anything unethical with it, so keeping it is ok.

Edit:
That's why it's rational to reject the base because of what TIM might do with it, but sentimental to reject the base because of what was done there.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 août 2012 - 09:01 .

[Taboo]

Why. Why did the concentration camps have to come into this?

****.

[krukow]

I didn't mention them.

Apparently, though, they're a great source of data and we should use the information gleaned from them to build more.

...or something.

You people are insane.

Still luv yah though

[lillitheris]

wright1978 wrote...

That's sort of the point her reasoning should be based on trusting Shep more than she trusts TIM after events that happened.

Only if you assume that she wouldn’t care about the issue otherwise.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That's why it's rational to reject the base because of what TIM might do with it, but sentimental to reject the base because of what was done there.

And what's to say that isn't part of the reasoning behind it? Everyone else seems to have the same idea. About what TIM was going to do with it.

Why wouldn't Miranda?

I'd be pretty reactionary too.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 30 août 2012 - 09:05 .

[Ieldra]

krukow wrote...
I didn't mention them.

Apparently, though, they're a great source of data and we should use the information gleaned from them to build more.

...or something.

You people are insane.

Still luv yah though

You're still making assumptions. The base is a Reaper factory. Where else would you find data about Reaper vulnerabilities and suchlike? You don't need to commit any more atrocities to gain something that might decide the war from it. That's why keeping the base should be a serious consideration. At least, that's the situation at the end of ME2.

[krukow]

I disagree Ieldra. And Miranda agrees with me.

So I'm right

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You're still making assumptions. The base is a Reaper factory. Where else would you find data about Reaper vulnerabilities and suchlike? You don't need to commit any more atrocities to gain something that might decide the war from it. That's why keeping the base should be a serious consideration. At least, that's the situation at the end of ME2.

You fight and win without it is the line.

BREAKING NEWS:

You can do it too. Without the horse****.

BREAKING NEWS:

TIM still gets the tech!

[Ghost]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Why. Why did the concentration camps have to come into this?

****.

That ain't Reich. 

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
That's why it's rational to reject the base because of what TIM might do with it, but sentimental to reject the base because of what was done there.

And what's to say that isn't part of the reasoning behind it? Everyone else seems to have the same idea. About what TIM was going to do with it.

It is explicitly not what she says. She doesn't say anything about the potential risks, ethical or otherwise. She talks as if the base and anything in it carried a taint because of what was done there. And that's not the Miranda in the rest of the game. Not even close.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 août 2012 - 09:12 .

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is explicitly not what she says. She doesn't say anything about the potential risks, ethical or otherwise. She talks as if the base and anything in it carried a taint because of what was done there.  

What if...and bear with me on this...you were wrong about the character? 

Will you walk on by by or c-c-change your opinion now that we have more information?

[Ghost]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is explicitly not what she says. She doesn't say anything about the potential risks, ethical or otherwise. She talks as if the base and anything in it carried a taint because of what was done there.  

What if...and bear with me on this...you were wrong about the character? 

Will you walk on by by or c-c-change your opinion now that we have more information?

I don't think we can go any fuhrer.

[Taboo]

^ That's a David Bowie reference.

Walk on By.

C-c-changes.

[krukow]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is explicitly not what she says. She doesn't say anything about the potential risks, ethical or otherwise. She talks as if the base and anything in it carried a taint because of what was done there. And that's not the Miranda in the rest of the game. Not even close.

...So you're against character growth then?  

Ah, I get it.

Because that's what you call it when someone says something they wouldn't have said earler: Character growth.

Modifié par krukow, 30 août 2012 - 09:20 .

[hot_heart]

Taboo, if we don't get a reference, we will automatically assume it's Bowie anyway. Don't worry.

[enayasoul]

Because the base was full of taint. The deaths of millions of human lives were taken and tainted to use in that "thing" to preserve humanity in that "thing". Illusive man is not to be trusted with that information but alas he goes and get's the information regardless and look what happens as a result. More HUMAN lives were tainted with reaper tech... indoctrinated.

[Ghost]

enayasoul wrote...

Because the base was full of taint. The deaths of millions of human lives were taken and tainted to use in that "thing" to preserve humanity in that "thing". Illusive man is not to be trusted with that information but alas he goes and get's the information regardless and look what happens as a result. More HUMAN lives were tainted with reaper tech... indoctrinated.

Illusive man can  my ass.

[Taboo]

Is it time to post distracting pictures again?

[krukow]

Ghost, post the KFC pic! That'll end the debates!!

[Taboo]

This one tends to work well.

[Ghost]

Taboo-XX wrote...

This one tends to work well.

Needs moar skin.