82210 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

Dear FiendishChicken,
I do my best to be understanding to you mirimancers, but I feel I have failed you, and in that I apologize.

See, I've been referencing things that happen on-screen. Ashley helping in ME1, Ashley being a murder-bot in ME3, Ashley being a spectre, Ashley killing Wrex (if you do that), and trying to compare that to things Miranda is show accomplishing on screen (drawing a blank here). You, in response, keep appealing to things Miranda said happen, but we're never shown (training, crushing mechs, weapons training). No matter what I said, I couldn't get you to respond with demonstrated combat ability, and I got a bit annoyed. Again, I apologize.

You see, it just dawned on me, the reason you're willing to equate what's done off-screen with what we actually see characters accomplish, is because you have to. Because there is no Miranda character. Not really. She doesn't exist. So she's whatever we choose to make her. She exists only in headcanon now.

Oh sure, there's the useless woman who shows up only aware of her sister, and not the reaper threat, but nobody in their right mind would suggest that...THING could defeat Ashley. Instead, mirimancers must appeal to the Miranda who lives in our hearts. The Miranda who's out doing wonderful things, tracking people down and making them talk. And yeah, of course that Miranda could beat Ashley. Ashely is stuck being in the game, killing actual reaper forces, and being the most effective squadmate for combate. Head canon Miranda is off traveling with Doctor Who battling Gods and Demons! I dare say, she could be a match for Thor!

So in this I do apologize. Imaginary, God-like Miranda is clearly a match for Ashley, nay, for 10 Ashleys!

Regards,
Krukow

PS: I was being sarcastic. You're waifu never does anything on screen that would lead me to believe she could defeat Tali in a straight up fight. Her ME2 powers serve more to help the squad than her (butressing my arguement that she's a tactician, not a fighter). And oh yeah, she never, ever does anything she claims she can. There's a word for that in real life, two actually-empty braggart. If you have some on-screen evidence that she's actually any damn good at fighting, please put it forward. But I don't care about your head canon or empty claims made by captain "they see you shep-oops, I'm dead. Again."

And her biggest contribution to the war effort was an email. Ashley's laughing at that somewhere...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

[krukow]

fiendishchicken wrote...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

Miranda: "You'll die for that b*tch!"
(throws her)
(nothing happens)
Miranda: "Shepard, could you go kill her for me, daddy won't let me use assault rifles..."

As for the second part (bold), it's BECAUSE SHE'S A TACTICIAN.  I'VE BEEN ARGUING THIS.  SHE HAS A BRILLIANT STRATEGIC MIND.  She's just not the individual warrior Ashley is.  She doesn't even know how to use heavy guns.

Modifié par krukow, 31 août 2012 - 01:10 .

[Taboo]

Disengage.

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

Miranda: "You'll die for that b*tch!"
(throws her)
(nothing happens)
Miranda: "Shepard, could you go kill her for me, daddy won't let me use assault rifles..."

Seems to happen everytime there's a fight. It's called playing the game.
I do see that you did make up a little dialogue though to discredit my source. 

I'd imagine that hurt pretty bad though for you. Versus sneaking up on Wrex?

[ENorman94]

Cant we all be friends...like Ashley and Miranda

[Taboo]

I may not be a chicken for much longer...

[krukow]

fiendishchicken wrote...

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

Miranda: "You'll die for that b*tch!"
(throws her)
(nothing happens)
Miranda: "Shepard, could you go kill her for me, daddy won't let me use assault rifles..."

Seems to happen everytime there's a fight. It's called playing the game.
I do see that you did make up a little dialogue though to discredit my source. 

I'd imagine that hurt pretty bad though for you. Versus sneaking up on Wrex?

Wrex was getting uppity.  What do you do when a Krogan Warlord gets uppity?  Let's ask R'as Al Guhl

"you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart."

Ash forgot her sword that day

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

Miranda: "You'll die for that b*tch!"
(throws her)
(nothing happens)
Miranda: "Shepard, could you go kill her for me, daddy won't let me use assault rifles..."

As for the second part (bold), it's BECAUSE SHE'S A TACTICIAN.  I'VE BEEN ARGUING THIS.  SHE HAS A BRILLIANT STRATEGIC MIND.  She's just not the individual warrior Ashley is.  She doesn't even know how to use heavy guns.

I believe she does. Cutscenes? No she's not the combat soldier Ashley is. But she is capable of it. On Ashley's level? Probably not. But Ashley is incapable of doing anything she can do. 

But a combat soldier isn't the best in a hand to hand fight. If the other person knows more, as an operative usually would, said operative will win. And Miranda is one of the best operatives around.

Ashley has a singular, narrow focus in one skill, one trait, and she is very good, even exceptional, but she's not prodigious. Miranda, at the various many things she does, excels at all of them. She could and would demonstrate an average or above average proficiency at anything she is unfamiliar with.

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

krukow wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

I believe this just shut you up. Open mouth, insert foot.

Mockery now? That's your argument? 

Now it's just going to insults towards Miranda. Harsh buddy. No more reasonable defences for Ashley though.
You're desperate.

I doubt she's a braggart. She seemed to hold up very well during the SM. In fact I do recall she led her fireteams to their objectives without a casualty. 

Miranda: "You'll die for that b*tch!"
(throws her)
(nothing happens)
Miranda: "Shepard, could you go kill her for me, daddy won't let me use assault rifles..."

Seems to happen everytime there's a fight. It's called playing the game.
I do see that you did make up a little dialogue though to discredit my source. 

I'd imagine that hurt pretty bad though for you. Versus sneaking up on Wrex?

Wrex was getting uppity.  What do you do when a Krogan Warlord gets uppity?  Let's ask R'as Al Guhl

"you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart."

Ash forgot her sword that day

She blindsided wrex with her shotgun. Guaranteed Wrex would beat her in a fight. A krogan battlemaster with hundreds of years of experience vs an above average human marine with less than 10 years experience.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 31 août 2012 - 01:19 .

[krukow]

I'm not saying Ashley's better, or that Miri isn't flat-out better at a lot of things. She is. I'm saying in a one-on-one fight, Ash would be the usual victor.

That's a better way to say it, because any random thing can happen in one fight. But Ash would win like 850/1000. I mean, if Miranda chucked her with biotics, that would just allow Ash to use a sniper rifle. Goes badly for Miri

[Steelcan]

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

[krukow]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

Ashley: Killed by nuclear fire.
Miranda: Killed by ballerina assassin who writes emails in crayon font.

Win for Ashley.

[dtrain24]

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

If there's even a corpse left.

[Steelcan]

krukow wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

Ashley: Killed by nuclear fire.
Miranda: Killed by ballerina assassin who writes emails in crayon font.

Win for Ashley.

Nope she's with Shepard, Ashley ehhhhhh not so much

[Steelcan]

dtrain24 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

If there's even a corpse left.

And who really cares if there is a body? Not me

[kaymarierose]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

Not it my game. I'd say they're equal in their own element.

Just with added bonus points for Miranda being Riley's LI.

Modifié par kaymarierose, 31 août 2012 - 01:27 .

[fiendishchicken]

krukow wrote...

I'm not saying Ashley's better, or that Miri isn't flat-out better at a lot of things. She is. I'm saying in a one-on-one fight, Ash would be the usual victor.

That's a better way to say it, because any random thing can happen in one fight. But Ash would win like 850/1000. I mean, if Miranda chucked her with biotics, that would just allow Ash to use a sniper rifle. Goes badly for Miri

At the suggestion of Taboo, I'm disengaging this argument.

And in a one on one fight like you describe, I doubt Miranda would be foolish enough to let herself be seen. 

Ashley would only win in cases where she did have backup. 

Miranda simply outclasses her. She doesn't have the heavy weapons focus. She doesn't need it. She has her tech and biotic powers. Ashley has neither. And those only briefly level the playing field. Miranda in a hand to hand fight, as a highly trained Cerberus Officer skilled in Espionage and Infiltration, would win. Ashley's combat skills just don't have the necessary subtlety. Miranda would be on top of Ashley in moments. And her biotics would only make it that much more of a one sided fight. 

I'm telling you as a soldier and as a veteran, that you're putting too much emphasis on military training. An operative like Miranda would waste my platoon. Bar none.

DISENGAGING FOR THE SAKE OF THE THREAD

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 31 août 2012 - 01:29 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

krukow wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ashley is a charred corpse on Virmire, Miranda is not. Win for Miranda

Ashley: Killed by nuclear fire.
Miranda: Killed by ballerina assassin who writes emails in crayon font.

Win for Ashley.

Not how it goes for me so it doesn't count.

Ashley: Killed by Nuclear Fire.

Miri: Fought through Cerberus and Reaper Forces (Including Banshees and Brutes), and Fought AND  Survived agaist Kai Leng and Henry Lawson.

Me: Kicked Kai Leng's ass without Hesitation. *Hint Hint*

[Steelcan]

But I think we can all agree hat Miranda and Ashley are better than Allers

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Steelcan wrote...

But I think we can all agree hat Miranda and Ashley are better than Allers

True. EVERYONE is better than Allers. Miss "Horrible Victim Of An Allergic Reaction." 

[Steelcan]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

But I think we can all agree hat Miranda and Ashley are better than Allers

True. EVERYONE is better than Allers. Miss "Horrible Victim Of An Allergic Reaction." 

Even Jacob is better than Allers, at least he has story

[Babi_Siha]

krukow wrote...

Dear FiendishChicken,
Ashley is a spectre. It doesn't matter if you think she's deserving. In the game, the council makes her one. The 75% alien council. Also, Ashley is much more battle tested than Miranda. She helped kill Soverign (an actual reaper) with a smaller squad, while Miranda helped kill a reaper fetus with a larger squad. Also, Ashley was on the front line with Shep fighting the reapers in ME3. She's actually fought and killed brutes/banshees/harvesters, while Miranda played hide and seek with "cerberus assassins". Ashley has better training, as she has been trained for combat from beginging to end, whereas a lot of Miranda's training was in the tactics/scientific fields. It's why she was overseeing a science project for 2 years. She's very much a renaissance woman, capable of many things. However, one of these things is not being a superior fighter to Ashley. I have never seen Miranda crush a mech with biotics, or shoot one's head off. I have seen ashley kill Atlases though.

I know you will respond that Ashley isn't as good as her titles, but that is your opinion completely divorced from the reality presented in the game. In the actual Mass Effect game, Ashley is superior to Miranda in combat skills, and it's not even close. This does not invalidate Miranda, it's just an honest and fair comparison.

Regards,
Krukow

Ashley is a Spectre because, as it was said before, she was there and Udina needed someone to watch his back during the coup, she herself is skeptical on why Udina chose her. The truth is, before meeting Shepard, she was nothing exceptional, she was a great soldier, but she never had special training, wasn't an N7 graduate, even brainless Vega was called to the program.

She didn't kill Sovereigh, she didn't even help, in fact no one from ME1 directly fought the Reaper, the 5th Fleet and other dreadnoughts, at tops she helped kill Saren. So Miranda, unlike Ash, actually did fight a Reaper. As for Wrex, anyone can kill a krogan warlord shooting him on the back, which was an incredbly coward attitude by the way.

Ashley only made something out of herself because she hitchhiked Shepard's accomplishments. Even if your argument is that her family was blacklisted, if she were that good of a soldier that wouldn't matter.

Ashley maybe tougher than Miranda, the latter is rather squishy actually, and is the better sniper, but on combat Miranda would play smart and would come out superior. On hand-to-hand combat, Ashley could win if Miranda didn't use her biotics, after all Ash is a tank, but using her biotics would give her quite the edge.

And Miranda was forced to be tough way before Ash joined the Alliance, she had to escape the bunch of armed security guards of her father, she couldn't do that unless her father had given her some kind of training, and Cerberus likely gave her an even more extensive field training as well.

I still like you though, krukow xD

Edit: I realized now I'm super late on the conversation, apologizes for that, I don't even know if the argument was finished or not.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 01:38 .

[Taboo]

Distraction. Am I doing it right?

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Distraction. Am I doing it right?

Top that Ashley