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[krukow]

Spitfire017 wrote...

Ash, if not for bad wiriting, would have destroyed Eva in an instance.

Just like Miranda wouldn't have fallen asleep in the Shadow Broker's base.

PLOT!  ART!

where is taboo anyways?

[Time Laspe]

Babi_Siha wrote...

krukow wrote...

And hey, Babi, Ash becomes a SPECTRE after Ms. Core, so that beatdown doesn't count because it's pre-training.

Not like Miranda and her mountain of training getting owned by Tiny Dancer...

And when exactly did Ash had the time to go through proper Spectre training? That certainly doesn't take overnight to be completed and she left a hospital bed to help with the coup, after that she either joins Shepard or goes help Hackett. No time at all for the special training she never had.

And Ashley would take a beating from Kai Leng, Thane did, she sure couldn't do better than him. And you can't look at this objectively, Kai Leng is a lame character, yes, but he's also very skilled and fast, not to mention a natural psicopath (actually I don't know how being  psicopath changes anything). If you read the books, you're just trolling, if you didn't, do a research to know just how good of an assassin and dangerous he is. He stabbed a krogan to death, Ash would be to coward to try that and would jjust shoot the krogan on the back.

Ashley didn't have proper Spectre training. You're right about that. But don't forget that in order for one to become a Spectre, ALL council member must approve. I think people assume Udina was the only one to have any say on making Ashley a Spectre. If the the rest of the council felt Ashley wasn't a great Spectre canidate, they wouldn't have approved. 

[Spitfire017]

Is there even a thing known as "Spectre training" ? Shepard never received any.

[Ghost]

Spitfire017 wrote...

Is there even a thing known as "Spectre training" ? Shepard never received any.

He needed to get to Saren quickly.

[krukow]

He gets extra abilities to level up in ME1 when he becomes a spectre.

Hmmmm, I guess it's instant then?

[Babi_Siha]

Time Laspe wrote...

Ashley didn't have proper Spectre training. You're right about that. But don't forget that in order for one to become a Spectre, ALL council member must approve. I think people assume Udina was the only one to have any say on making Ashley a Spectre. If the the rest of the council felt Ashley wasn't a great Spectre canidate, they wouldn't have approved.

Yes, they approved, because of her history with Shepard. If not for that, they wouldn't agree because when she was acting on her own, she almost lost an entire colony, a lot of people were huskfied because she failed to protect them. Being promoted over someone else's merit doesn't require talent. When she had the chance to prove she had said talent, she didn't live up to the expectation.

Edit: and plot and bad writing argument in 3...

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 04:03 .

[Babi_Siha]

Spitfire017 wrote...

Is there even a thing known as "Spectre training" ? Shepard never received any.

He had new abilities, let's say for the sake of making sense out of things that he had off-screen training. Which couldn't be the case of Ashley because she left the hospital and immediately had to protect the Council.

[Spitfire017]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Spitfire017 wrote...

Is there even a thing known as "Spectre training" ? Shepard never received any.

He needed to get to Saren quickly.

Ya, you are correct. I am tired.

Modifié par Spitfire017, 31 août 2012 - 04:12 .

[krukow]

Babi_Siha wrote...

Time Laspe wrote...

Ashley didn't have proper Spectre training. You're right about that. But don't forget that in order for one to become a Spectre, ALL council member must approve. I think people assume Udina was the only one to have any say on making Ashley a Spectre. If the the rest of the council felt Ashley wasn't a great Spectre canidate, they wouldn't have approved.

Yes, they approved, because of her history with Shepard. If not for that, they wouldn't agree because when she was acting on her own, she almost lost an entire colony, a lot of people were huskfied because she failed to protect them. Being promoted over someone else's merit doesn't require talent. When she had the chance to prove she had said talent, she didn't live up to the expectation.

HEAD CANON!  MORE HEAD CANON CONFETTI IN THE MIRI THREAD!  WHERE REALITY IS WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE!

You assume they view that as a failure.  Like the alliance would legitimately think she was going to be able to stop the collectors on her own.  It's completely possible she was there to figure out what the threat was, not neccessarily to stop it.
You usually send more than one soldier to stop a threat...

Also, she helped kill Soverign(Garrus also makes this claim.   More things that are in-game).  Pretty sure that makes her a galactic hero.

[Babi_Siha]

krukow wrote...

HEAD CANON!  MORE HEAD CANON CONFETTI IN THE MIRI THREAD!  WHERE REALITY IS WHATEVER YOU WANT IT TO BE!

You assume they view that as a failure.  Like the alliance would legitimately think she was going to be able to stop the collectors on her own.  It's completely possible she was there to figure out what the threat was, not neccessarily to stop it.
You usually send more than one soldier to stop a threat...

Also, she helped kill Soverign(Garrus also makes this claim.   More things that are in-game).  Pretty sure that makes her a galactic hero.

This argument doesn't work, she didn't help to stop Sovereign directly, none of them did. Their work simply made the Alliance understand the threat and send fleets to the Citadel. Fleets killed Sovereign, Ashley took no part in it.

And even if it weren't a failure, it wasn't a win and certainly not something that would put her on the Council radar.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 04:10 .

[Time Laspe]

Babi_Siha wrote...

Time Laspe wrote...

Ashley didn't have proper Spectre training. You're right about that. But don't forget that in order for one to become a Spectre, ALL council member must approve. I think people assume Udina was the only one to have any say on making Ashley a Spectre. If the the rest of the council felt Ashley wasn't a great Spectre canidate, they wouldn't have approved.

Yes, they approved, because of her history with Shepard. If not for that, they wouldn't agree because when she was acting on her own, she almost lost an entire colony, a lot of people were huskfied because she failed to protect them. Being promoted over someone else's merit doesn't require talent. When she had the chance to prove she had said talent, she didn't live up to the expectation.

Edit: and plot and bad writing argument in 3...

A lot of it can chalked up to bad writing, but lets not forget that Ashley keeps promoted several times in the Alliance navy while Shepard was with Cerberus. Was it because of Shepard? Maybe? But she jumped like six promotion thingys (from gunnery Chief to Lt) within the span of two years. I mean that has to be her own doing right? 

Modifié par Time Laspe, 31 août 2012 - 04:09 .

[krukow]

Babi_Siha wrote...This argument doesn't work, she didn't help to stop Sovereign directly, none of them did. Their work simply made the Alliance understand the threat and send fleets to the Citadel. Fleets killed Sovereign, Ashley took no part in it.

And even if it weren't a failure, it wasn't a win and certainly not something that would put her on the Council radar.

The game literally disagrees with you.  Literally.

Anderson says Shepard blew up Soverign.  Straight up says this.

Garrus flat out says he helped stop a reaper invasion, and James agrees (but says it doesn't count because that was with Shepard).

THREE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE THAT SHEP AND CREW STOPPED SOVERIGN.  THREE.


If you're going to say the game is lying, then you've left the reservation and I don't know how to discuss things with you...

[Spitfire017]

The only thing the wiki mentions is that candidiates go through a
long period of field training under a experienced mentor. Which, in 
Ash's case, could have been Shepard in ME1.

Asari Councillor: Wait, Ms williams must go through training under an experienced mentor before becoming Spectre!!
Udina:
But, she did get her training....Cmdr Shepard while hunting down
Saren...and what ever the hell she did between the end of ME1 till ME3.
Surely thats enough?
Asari Councillor: kk. She can become a Spectre.

[Babi_Siha]

Time Laspe wrote...

A lot of it can chalked up to bad writing, but lets not forget that Ashley keeps promoted several times in the Alliance navy while Shepard was with Cerberus. Was it because of Shepard? Maybe? But she jumped like six promotion thingys (from gunnery Chief to Lt) within the span of two years. I mean that has to be her own doing right?

I never said she wasn't a good soldier, she's just not good enough to go through the N7 program. She must've done something right, but by the time ME2 took place she was Operations Chief, that's one promotion. It's hard to imagine she did so much in such a short spam of time between the second and third game to deserve all those promotion, I mean what could she have done? The collectors were being taken care by Shepard's team, the Alliance didn't even acknowledge them; when Shep was arrasted, the Reapers invasion was delayed, so not much activity from them, there's just not a lot she could be doing. I don't understand the VS having such a huge promotion and I don't think neither of them deserved, it doesn't make sense.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 04:21 .

[Time Laspe]

Spitfire017 wrote...

Is there even a thing known as "Spectre training" ? Shepard never received any.

Nah. I don' t think so. In order for one to become a Spectre, I think it depends on ones military career. Remember when Nihlus told shepard that he was going to be observing him on the Eden Prime mission? And if I remember, Anderson states that Shepard's military career is impressive, and they were considering him (or her) for spectre status for awhile. 

[krukow]

Errr, Kaidan's promotion was actually only like a grade or two (he was a LT originally) :-/

[Babi_Siha]

krukow wrote...

The game literally disagrees with you.  Literally.

Anderson says Shepard blew up Soverign.  Straight up says this.

Garrus
flat out says he helped stop a reaper invasion, and James agrees (but
says it doesn't count because that was with Shepard).

THREE CHARACTERS ALL AGREE THAT SHEP AND CREW STOPPED SOVERIGN.  THREE.


If you're going to say the game is lying, then you've left the reservation and I don't know how to discuss things with you... 

Tha game also shows Sovereign being blown up by a bunch of fleets, that's in-game. Ashley was either with Shepard fighting Saren or inside the Normandy doing nothing. When people said Shepard blew up Sovereign, it's just a matter of speech because he railed all those fleet to help, if not for that, his squad would be helpless agains Sovereign.

The game isn't lying, you're the one that's trying to rationalize Ashley's superiority by interpreting things too literally.

And if you can't see Ashley took no direct part in destroying Sovereign, then you're not good to argue anymore because you're past seing things straight. It's the same thing with Kai Leng.

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[Spitfire017]

Modifié par Spitfire017, 31 août 2012 - 04:22 .

[Spitfire017]

Babi_Siha wrote...

Time Laspe wrote...

A lot of it can chalked up to bad writing, but lets not forget that Ashley keeps promoted several times in the Alliance navy while Shepard was with Cerberus. Was it because of Shepard? Maybe? But she jumped like six promotion thingys (from gunnery Chief to Lt) within the span of two years. I mean that has to be her own doing right?

I never said she wasn't a good soldier, she's just not good enough to go through the N7 program. She must've done something right, but by the time ME2 took place she was Operations Chief, that's one promotion. It's hard to imagine she did so much in such a short spam of time between the second and third game to deserve all those promotion, I mean what could she have done? The collectors were being taken care by Shepard's team, the Alliance didn't even acknowledge them; when Shep was arrasted, the Reapers invasion was delayed, so not much activity from them, there's just not a lot she could be doing. I don't understand the VS having such a huge promotion and I don't think neither of them deserved, it doesn't make sense.

You are right, it doesn't. aka...bad writing.

[Skullheart]

Are you saying that the lead writer from ME3 made lots of mistakes?

Modifié par Skullheart, 31 août 2012 - 04:27 .

[Time Laspe]

Skullheart wrote...

Are you saying that the lead writer from ME3 made lots of mistakes?

Of course not :innocent:

[Babi_Siha]

Skullheart wrote...

Are you saying that the lead writer from ME3 made lots of mistakes?

I don't think that's right to say, saying they made a lot of mistakes means they did at least a few things good. The correct thing is they didn't do almost anything right except for Tuchanka.

[Taboo]

krukow wrote...

PLOT!  ART!

where is taboo anyways?

Working. I have to make money to survive.

She was knocked out. It isn't that difficult to understand. It's also a game mechanic to make the fight more tense.

It doesn't really matter in the end. Miranda and Ashley never really cross paths. She's more than respectful in my ME3 playthroughs. She's just a friend. She isn't as..."out there" as Tali is.

They're both great gals. Why has this argument gone as long as it has? I'd think that Ashley would eventually come to accept Miranda, especially once she learns how important family is to her.

Once she learns how dedicated Miranda is to Shepard, she'll also calm down.

[Time Laspe]

Taboo-XX wrote...

krukow wrote...

PLOT!  ART!

where is taboo anyways?

Working. I have to make money to survive.

She was knocked out. It isn't that difficult to understand. It's also a game mechanic to make the fight more tense.

It doesn't really matter in the end. Miranda and Ashley never really cross paths. She's more than respectful in my ME3 playthroughs. She's just a friend. She isn't as..."out there" as Tali is.

They're both great gals. Why has this argument gone as long as it has? I'd think that Ashley would eventually come to accept Miranda, especially once she learns how important family is to her.

Once she learns how dedicated Miranda is to Shepard, she'll also calm down.

Uhh don't remind me. I have work tomorrow. But i agree with you. In my headcanon, Miranda and Ash get along, and are quite respectful to each other. 

[krukow]

well, because I'm right, duh.


I think they'd get along fine, esp if you only romanced one.

And be nice to Tali, she's just a 14 year old with a crush, it happens!