The best advice I was ever given about that Babi was to separate the artist from their work.
You judge the content on a separate basis from the artist.
That's the only way I can still watch certain films from certain directors even after all they've done. I won't mention the most famous example but let's just say he isn't allowed in the US.
"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3
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jtav
, juin 13 2011 05:39
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#71177
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:16
krukow
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Taboo-XX wrote...
The best advice I was ever given about that Babi was to separate the artist from their work.
You judge the content on a separate basis from the artist.
That's the only way I can still watch certain films from certain directors even after all they've done. I won't mention the most famous example but let's just say he isn't allowed in the US.
well, he shouldn't have made those godawful prequels. Yoda looked like a cartoon!
And I agree. I'm not sure how I feel about bioware games going forward (I'll wait for the reviews of DA3), but I love the ME series and they can't change that.
#71178
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:17
Babi_Siha
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krukow wrote...
Just not mean ol Babi. Babi's mean!
Hey, how come I'm mean? Just because I posted a few things you couldn't counter-argue? Wow, you're a sore loser, krukow.
And just because I was about to agree with you about the kaidanites...
#71179
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:18
krukow
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I only tease the ones I love Babi.Babi_Siha wrote...
krukow wrote...
Just not mean ol Babi. Babi's mean!
Hey, how come I'm mean? Just because I posted a few things you couldn't counter-argue? Wow, you're a sore loser, krukow.
#71180
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:18
Taboo
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I was talking about Roman Polanski you boob.
Eugh.
Eugh.
#71182
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:19
krukow
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...I was kidding?
And given how she's bending in that pic, I vote that she's doing yoga...
And given how she's bending in that pic, I vote that she's doing yoga...
Modifié par krukow, 31 août 2012 - 05:20 .
#71183
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:20
Taboo
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krukow wrote...
...I was kidding?
You're still a boob.
#71184
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:20
Babi_Siha
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krukow wrote...
I only tease the ones I love Babi.Babi_Siha wrote...
krukow wrote...
Just not mean ol Babi. Babi's mean!
Hey, how come I'm mean? Just because I posted a few things you couldn't counter-argue? Wow, you're a sore loser, krukow.
Hahaha Well, you're also the only Ashmancer that posts here that I don't think is a troll (not all the time anyway
).
#71185
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:21
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
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Taboo-XX wrote...
I'm a member of both the American and British Film Institutes. What do I win?
*snip*
You win a signed photo of the Barista Hipster. Congratulations!
#71186
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:22
Taboo
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What if I told you...I loved the film grain effect in ME1 and ME2 because it made the games look like they were shot on 35mm film.
It gave me a raging nerd-on.
It gave me a raging nerd-on.
#71187
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:34
Babi_Siha
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Hum, can't believe some of my fellow Mirimancers are migrating to the Ash thread. Traitors. krukow, stop bringing people to the dark side.
Well, time to go to bed, nighty night, fellas!
krukow, stop bringing people to the dark side. Well, time to go to bed, nighty night, fellas!
Modifié par Babi_Siha, 31 août 2012 - 05:35 .
#71188
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:35
Taboo
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Babi_Siha wrote...
Hum, can't believe some of my fellow Mirimancers are migrating to the Ash thread. Traitors. krukow, stop bringing people to the dark side.
That was my fault.
When I said I would drag this thread to glory I meant it.
We will invade all of the threads.
#71189
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:35
krukow
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They're still mirimancers, don't get your panties bunched.
Besides, as much as I've artificially inflated your page count, you owe us a little
Besides, as much as I've artificially inflated your page count, you owe us a little
#71190
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:37
Taboo
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I should probably go finish Tali's Loyalty mission. Then Jack's. Then Thane's.
And then the SM, LotSB and Arrival.
**** yeah art.
And then the SM, LotSB and Arrival.
**** yeah art.
#71191
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:37
Babi_Siha
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krukow wrote...
They're still mirimancers, don't get your panties bunched.
Besides, as much as I've artificially inflated your page count, you owe us a little
Fine, I'll stop by tomorrow and try not to troll the thread. See, I'm not mean.
#71192
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:38
Taboo
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Babi_Siha wrote...
krukow wrote...
They're still mirimancers, don't get your panties bunched.
Besides, as much as I've artificially inflated your page count, you owe us a little
Fine, I'll stop by tomorrow and try not to troll the thread. See, I'm not mean.
Good night ma'am.
#71193
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:38
krukow
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You'll troll. It's what mirimancers do there.
It's why a few ashmancers got together, said some dark incantations, and Dragon_Claw was born...
It's why a few ashmancers got together, said some dark incantations, and Dragon_Claw was born...
#71195
Posté 31 août 2012 - 05:40
Taboo
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Closer is playing on my phone Nihlus...
lololololol
lololololol
#71196
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
Posté 31 août 2012 - 06:04
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*
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krukow wrote...
You'll troll. It's what mirimancers do there.
It's why a few ashmancers got together, said some dark incantations, and Dragon_Claw was born...
To be fair, I haven't trolled for quite a while in the Ashley thread.
Maybe I should start again...
Modifié par BringBackNihlus, 31 août 2012 - 06:05 .
#71197
Posté 31 août 2012 - 08:18
Ieldra
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Did I just read twelve pages of a "my fictional girlfriend is better than yours" discussion? I thought we were over that...
But FWIW, here's my take on Ashley: I've always envisioned endurance as Ashleys primary strengh. She's extremely hard to put down, and she keeps going after most others would have given up. She's got the physical endurance, and the sheer bloody-minded stubbornness to use that trait to her best advantage. Were she in ME2's SM, I'm sure she would've gotten 4 hold-the-line points like Garrus, Zaeed or Grunt, where Miranda only gets 2. That may also be the trait that got her approved as a Spectre. Remember that there are different types of Spectres.
Miranda's main strength is her adaptability and intelligence. She adapts best to unfamiliar situations and anywhere where stealth and surprise are the deciding factors she'd have those four points instead. her biotics are a factor but according to lore biotics take a lot of energy, so she must use them sparingly if she doesn't know how long her current situation will last. Miranda is also the superior tactitician in complex situations with many factors and options. Infiltrating Sanctuary, that's a mission that plays to her strengths.
You could say that Ashley is more like a krogan and Miranda more like a salarian. Fire and ice, the heart and the mind of any combat situation, their cards the Queen of Clubs (staves) and the Queen of Spades (swords). Personally, I value Miranda's strengths higher, else I wouldn't be here as a fan of Miranda, but there can be no doubt that situations exist where Ashley's strengths are called for rather than Miranda's.
But FWIW, here's my take on Ashley: I've always envisioned endurance as Ashleys primary strengh. She's extremely hard to put down, and she keeps going after most others would have given up. She's got the physical endurance, and the sheer bloody-minded stubbornness to use that trait to her best advantage. Were she in ME2's SM, I'm sure she would've gotten 4 hold-the-line points like Garrus, Zaeed or Grunt, where Miranda only gets 2. That may also be the trait that got her approved as a Spectre. Remember that there are different types of Spectres.
Miranda's main strength is her adaptability and intelligence. She adapts best to unfamiliar situations and anywhere where stealth and surprise are the deciding factors she'd have those four points instead. her biotics are a factor but according to lore biotics take a lot of energy, so she must use them sparingly if she doesn't know how long her current situation will last. Miranda is also the superior tactitician in complex situations with many factors and options. Infiltrating Sanctuary, that's a mission that plays to her strengths.
You could say that Ashley is more like a krogan and Miranda more like a salarian. Fire and ice, the heart and the mind of any combat situation, their cards the Queen of Clubs (staves) and the Queen of Spades (swords). Personally, I value Miranda's strengths higher, else I wouldn't be here as a fan of Miranda, but there can be no doubt that situations exist where Ashley's strengths are called for rather than Miranda's.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 août 2012 - 08:39 .
#71198
Posté 31 août 2012 - 09:27
wright1978
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Ieldra2 wrote...
Did I just read twelve pages of a "my fictional girlfriend is better than yours" discussion? I thought we were over that...
But FWIW, here's my take on Ashley: I've always envisioned endurance as Ashleys primary strengh. She's extremely hard to put down, and she keeps going after most others would have given up. She's got the physical endurance, and the sheer bloody-minded stubbornness to use that trait to her best advantage. Were she in ME2's SM, I'm sure she would've gotten 4 hold-the-line points like Garrus, Zaeed or Grunt, where Miranda only gets 2. That may also be the trait that got her approved as a Spectre. Remember that there are different types of Spectres.
Miranda's main strength is her adaptability and intelligence. She adapts best to unfamiliar situations and anywhere where stealth and surprise are the deciding factors she'd have those four points instead. her biotics are a factor but according to lore biotics take a lot of energy, so she must use them sparingly if she doesn't know how long her current situation will last. Miranda is also the superior tactitician in complex situations with many factors and options. Infiltrating Sanctuary, that's a mission that plays to her strengths.
You could say that Ashley is more like a krogan and Miranda more like a salarian. Fire and ice, the heart and the mind of any combat situation, their cards the Queen of Clubs (staves) and the Queen of Spades (swords). Personally, I value Miranda's strengths higher, else I wouldn't be here as a fan of Miranda, but there can be no doubt that situations exist where Ashley's strengths are called for rather than Miranda's.
Very much agree with these descriptions.
#71199
Posté 31 août 2012 - 10:32
hot_heart
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Yeah, not wanting to reignite the discussion, but I would put Ash and Miranda at 50/50. It really depends on the circumstances.
Of course, I'd still pick Miranda...
Of course, I'd still pick Miranda...
#71200
Posté 31 août 2012 - 11:12
Ieldra
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Apropros reigniting, I believe I can demonstrate my claim about the Collector base, namely that what happened there is irrelevant to the moral evaluation of the decision to keep it or save it:
Imagine two different situations:
(1) You find the Collector base as usual in ME2
(2) You find the Collector base in an unused state. It's made for the same purpose, you know about its purpose and how it works as much as in the other case, but nothing has been done with it yet. The only difference to (1) is that the claim "atrocities have been committed here" is false.
Do people feel (!) different about these situations? I'd venture to guess they do, maybe even drastically so. Yet, whatever you do with it, the action you need to perform to keep or destroy it, and the consequences, good or bad, of either keeping or destroying it will be exactly the same in both cases.
So, unless you believe morality is not about the actual, tangible good and bad in an action and the projected tangible consequences of it down the line, good or bad, the conclusion that what was done there is irrelevant for the morality of the decision is inescapable.
There is no tangible consequence that's part of (1) but not (2) or vice versa. The feeling of a "taint" in situation (1) exists purely in your imagination, however keenly you may feel it, and I claim that it is stupid and irresponsible to base your decision on a feeling of "wrongness" that exists only in your imagination, if your decision may decide the outcome of a war for survival. I find it impossible to reconcile Miranda's irresponsibility and stupidity when she says that "betrayal" line with what was shown of her throughout ME2 until that point. She may be less than clear-headed when it comes to Oriana (she says so in ME3: "I can't think straight until Ori is safe") and I don't begrudge her that, but she'll not let sentimentality endanger the survival of humanity. If she rejects the base, it will be for a tangible evil consequence, not an imaginary one.
Edit:
It is possible that different opinions about this may be based on different meta-ethical positions. If so, I would see those differences reflected upon.
Imagine two different situations:
(1) You find the Collector base as usual in ME2
(2) You find the Collector base in an unused state. It's made for the same purpose, you know about its purpose and how it works as much as in the other case, but nothing has been done with it yet. The only difference to (1) is that the claim "atrocities have been committed here" is false.
Do people feel (!) different about these situations? I'd venture to guess they do, maybe even drastically so. Yet, whatever you do with it, the action you need to perform to keep or destroy it, and the consequences, good or bad, of either keeping or destroying it will be exactly the same in both cases.
So, unless you believe morality is not about the actual, tangible good and bad in an action and the projected tangible consequences of it down the line, good or bad, the conclusion that what was done there is irrelevant for the morality of the decision is inescapable.
There is no tangible consequence that's part of (1) but not (2) or vice versa. The feeling of a "taint" in situation (1) exists purely in your imagination, however keenly you may feel it, and I claim that it is stupid and irresponsible to base your decision on a feeling of "wrongness" that exists only in your imagination, if your decision may decide the outcome of a war for survival. I find it impossible to reconcile Miranda's irresponsibility and stupidity when she says that "betrayal" line with what was shown of her throughout ME2 until that point. She may be less than clear-headed when it comes to Oriana (she says so in ME3: "I can't think straight until Ori is safe") and I don't begrudge her that, but she'll not let sentimentality endanger the survival of humanity. If she rejects the base, it will be for a tangible evil consequence, not an imaginary one.
Edit:
It is possible that different opinions about this may be based on different meta-ethical positions. If so, I would see those differences reflected upon.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 août 2012 - 11:19 .
