82210 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

You’re doing it wrong. Miranda, fortunately, isn’t completely unemotional about it.

Anyway, if you want to attempt to be scientific and stuff, you must factor in the emotional effect on everyone else who gets involved in any way. You can argue that it’s an invalid emotion, but not that it’s negligible. It will have a significant impact on the usability of the tech if nobody wants to come near it.

Modifié par lillitheris, 31 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[Ieldra]

I'm not saying that Miranda is - or should be - unemotional about it. I'm saying that she would overrule those emotions.

Also, the reasonable thing to use from the base is information about the Reapers, not the actual Reaperization tech. I can see no reason why anyone would refuse to use it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 août 2012 - 11:46 .

[lillitheris]

I’ll rephrase: Miranda is not unemotional enough to override her emotions in this case.

[Ieldra]

lillitheris wrote...
I’ll rephrase: Miranda is not unemotional enough to override her emotions in this case.

And that is what I say is out of character. She's a professional operative, her training would include such things.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 31 août 2012 - 11:48 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
I’ll rephrase: Miranda is not unemotional enough to override her emotions in this case.

And that is what I say is out of character. She's a professional operative, her training would include such things.

Agree someone in her senior long standing role in Cerberus who is fully aware and accepting of the sort of morally dubious things cerberus have done to achieve results, should have a different wording as to why she supports blowing up the base. 

[katcrave]

I'm honestly torn on this issue. I can see both sides of Miranda in ME2. The ruthless, efficient Cerberus operative and the insecure human being attempting to live a normal life vicariously through her sister.

But really, a statement that was more in line with 'not trusting TIM' with the collector base would have been appropriate for either persona. While the 'betray' line would only work for the more sentimental interpretation of Miranda...

[lillitheris]

How little emotion do you need to have before you become a psychopath? Can she actually love anyone?

[Steelcan]

lillitheris wrote...

How little emotion do you need to have before you become a psychopath? Can she actually love anyone?

. Who about Shepard or her sister?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

[jtav]

She can love. Of course she can. But I don't believe a person in her position with her other stated ethical principles--she's implied to endorse torture as a legitimate interrogation technique--would make the argument that the base couldn't be used because of what was done there. I do think she'd argue for destroying it, but because she no longer trusts TIM or because she believes it to be too dangerous.

[Cmdr. Ken Shepard]

Ieldra2 wrote...

lillitheris wrote...
I’ll rephrase: Miranda is not unemotional enough to override her emotions in this case.

And that is what I say is out of character. She's a professional operative, her training would include such things.

All the games in some way shape or form seem to mention Shepard's ability to lead, especially people trusting him on what seem to be lost causes. I just chalked it up at the time of first ME2 playthrough as her realizing Shepard was a better person to back than TIM. 

I don't disagree fully it was out of character to a degree, but people change their minds in an instant. I guess I just feel too big of a deal is made about her backing Shepard in destroying it. To a degree it redeemed that she was more than a mindless TIM pawn for me, especially heading into ME3. (At the time)

[fiendishchicken]

jtav wrote...

She can love. Of course she can. But I don't believe a person in her position with her other stated ethical principles--she's implied to endorse torture as a legitimate interrogation technique--would make the argument that the base couldn't be used because of what was done there. I do think she'd argue for destroying it, but because she no longer trusts TIM or because she believes it to be too dangerous.

Torturing, not killing. Miranda saw what was going on. People were being killed gruesomely, being stuck into what amounts to a blender and pumped into pipes to make a new Reaper based on humans. That's an abomination. Something like that cannot be condoned. Miranda knows this. That information is not worth the people that died there. I would not be at peace with myself knowing something like that existed. Miranda has a conscious too. Don't deny it. She has her fallibilites, but those make her human. And as a human, any decent one would be utterly repulsed by the idea of others being melted down to make a paste that becomes another killbot that seeks to kill them.

[Babi_Siha]

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

[jtav]

Those responsible for the death have been brought to justice. The process won't be repeated unless someone gets indoctrinated. What I'm arguing for is using the data already gathered and studying the tech within to try to find a Reaper weakness. None of that implies condoning what happened there.

[lillitheris]

jtav wrote...

She can love. Of course she can.

It’s not at all ‘of course’, though. A psychopath is more or less incapable of feeling these positive emotions.

So, the question is whether her actions would imply she’s over that boundary or not. I’d say no, but some of you seem to put her significantly closer at least.

[wright1978]

Babi_Siha wrote...

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

That's how i rationalise it too but would prefer more apt wording.

[sarahann62380]

I know you guys are Miranda loyalists, but I have a favor to ask to someone that may have the tech abilities and the time to create a video that splices bits of all the romances with FemShep and MaleShep together. We're trying to do something special once the romance DLC survey hits 20,000. We've gotten a couple of people that are creating renders, but I think that doing a video would go a long way to showing how much we would all love to see something like this. And when I say something like this, I don't mean a dating SIM--that's not what we're trying to find, just something that asks BioWare to consider our LIs in upcoming DLC. Now if you have the time and know-how, we would so appreciate it. We're at a little over 16,000 hits right now. So we think we'll hit 20,000 probably around Tuesday next week so there is some time constraints. But we would so appreciate it. If you know someone or if you yourself has the time, please send me a message and let me know.

Also, here's the survey I'm referencing: me3cosmiclove.wordpress.com/

[CrutchCricket]

What does Miranda say after the SM if you destroy the base? Every squad member has a line about it and most support destroying it. But what does she say exactly? It's been a while.

[jtav]

But rusty but something like "We had to do it Shepard. Hopefully the Illusive Man can see that."

[Stalker]

"We had to do it, Shepard. Destroying the base was the right decision. The Illusive Man might see that different, but we had no other choice"
... self-translated from German version.

[krukow]

Babi_Siha wrote...

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

She's pragmatic, not evil.

This isn't keeping information.  This is keeping the actual machine used to murder hundreds of thousands.

You people remain insane, but fun

[Babi_Siha]

krukow wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

She's pragmatic, not evil.

This isn't keeping information.  This is keeping the actual machine used to murder hundreds of thousands.

You people remain insane, but fun

Yes, but TIM claimed he wanted the base to study the Reapers, not continue their experiments. If he were to be trusted, I see no reason why she wouldn't want to keep the base. A lot of people died there. So what?
It's done, if they could find something to help destroy the Reapers there without experimenting on people then I don't see any problem in that.

[krukow]

Babi_Siha wrote...

krukow wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

She's pragmatic, not evil.

This isn't keeping information.  This is keeping the actual machine used to murder hundreds of thousands.

You people remain insane, but fun

Yes, but TIM claimed he wanted the base to study the Reapers, not continue their experiments. If he were to be trusted, I see no reason why she wouldn't want to keep the base. A lot of people died there. So what?
It's done, if they could find something to help destroy the Reapers there without experimenting on people then I don't see any problem in that.

They were killed there, by the base itself.  It's not like that was just the location it happened to occur at, the base itself is a big murder weapon that murder six digits.  You're not keeping information, you're keeping the means of murder.

I mean, there's a line, right?  At which the means outweight the ends?

Right?

H-hello?  I appear to be all alone in this belief...

[Steelcan]

krukow wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...

I believe it was out of character for Miranda to say something like that, she's pragmatic and if there wouldn't be experiment on people then there's no problem in keeping the base. However, I like to rationalize that through the events os ME2 she's seen TIM's true colors and just didn't trust him with the collector's base at his disposal. I wish they had a more in-character dialogue though.

She's pragmatic, not evil.

This isn't keeping information.  This is keeping the actual machine used to murder hundreds of thousands.

You people remain insane, but fun

. Always fun to argue

[Steelcan]

@Krukow the end in this case is justified by the means