82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Someone please explain

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
Certain things are inherent in people. People want to fit in and be accepted. This is science fact and is not debatable.

No, it's a majority trait, nothing more. Basically you're claiming there are no true non-comformists and individualists out there. That's very debatable. Also, people might want to be accepted, but by who? That varies considerably. Certainly not by everyone. 

There are always exceptions. I would never deny that. But Miranda is not an exception.

There will always be hermits who live in the woods but it's very, very rare.

Most people need some sort of confirmation of validity. Before Shepard gets involved Miranda finds it simply in her work. Turns out you can have validity from lots of things.

Maslow and the hierarchy of needs Ieldra. Basic things.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 04 septembre 2012 - 04:42 .

[Ieldra]

As I said: confirmation of validity by whom? Or of what? Miranda is looking for her place in life, as she admits in ME2, but it matters how she does that from whom or what she seeks validation.

@Steelcan:
Explain what?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 septembre 2012 - 04:50 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As I said: confirmation of validity by whom? Or of what? Miranda is looking for her place in life, as she admits in ME2, but it matters how she does that from whom or what she seeks validation.

@Steelcan:
Explain what?

. What is being discussed

[Caihn]

oh brother wrote...
I think it was just pointing out that people's views on certain topics are not completly independent.

No this is just a simplified and inaccurate view of the fanbase.
(not mentioning the stereotypical judgments)

[lillitheris]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I haven't played something in the Forgotten Realms from Bioware in YEARS but I would put Miranda in the Neutral alignments.

Early Miranda would be classified as Neutral Evil, slowly making her way toward Neutral Good (without passing through True Neutral, which is the alignment of all douche posers everywhere).

I agree with you.

I never understood True Neutral to be honest. I remember hearing Jaheira talki about "The Balance" and would scratch my head at it. You'd switch sides in a fight just to keep the balance?

Anyway thank you for the clarification.

True Neutral or Lawful Neutral is what I am. I do have a sense of altruism, and I have a sense of callous apathy.

I actually think I am not so much a neutral person as I am a hybrid of mixed traits, which I suppose is neutral.

It’s more Chaotic, really. So you’d probably classify as CG.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As I said: confirmation of validity by whom? Or of what? Miranda is looking for her place in life, as she admits in ME2, but it matters how she does that from whom or what she seeks validation.

What are you talking about?

People look for validation. People want to fit it. Cerberus does that for Miranda. But she can get validation in other places as well. She can have contact with her sister or she can have a companion like Shepard.

Validation can come from more than just one thing.

I don't even know what we're debating. I don't know what you're talking about half the time.

[Berg]

@Steelcan - it was nothing terribly important, I sent you a PM.

@Yankee - I just read it a a set of general viewpoints. Of course it will be simplified. Anyway I was the one who brought it up, didn't mean to cause offence.

[Taboo]

So someone pointed this out on the story forum.

Sounds a LOT like a Leviathan.

[lillitheris]

Ieldra2 wrote...

(1) Collector base betrayal line - OOC or not.

Was there more than one writer for Miranda in ME2?

(2) The idea of Miranda having had a string of lovers vs. Miranda having been mostly celibate in the past.

Or flings, or purely sex rather than relationships, or a serious relationship somewhere.

(3) More pragmatic Miranda vs. less pragmatic Miranda, in several increments.

You’d have to define pragmatism.

(4) Infertile Miranda creating offspring using technology vs. having her infertility cured and conceiving naturally.

Or not wanting/having children.

(5) Miranda's new organization being mostly an STG equivalent vs. being mostly a scientific think thank creating nothing controversial.

Or no organization at all.

(6) Less romance-focused vs. more romance-focused Miranda.

I’m not sure how this manifests.

Modifié par lillitheris, 04 septembre 2012 - 05:09 .

[Taboo]

I was afraid of this. I'm having flashbacks of the "Antichrist" debacle.

I'll be back later.

[lillitheris]

Taboo-XX wrote...

So someone pointed this out on the story forum.

Sounds a LOT like a Leviathan.

Nah. They just had to figure out something that looked like a Reaper (because you always make ships that look like your species, no?) and had mind control powers. Voilà.

[Vertigo_1]

Leviathan DLC Survey!

We're closing it in a few hours time so so just putting it here if you guys missed it

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 04 septembre 2012 - 05:12 .

[Ieldra]

@oh brother:
The hypothesis can be phrased as follows: there is a statistically significant correlation between certain viewpoints of Miranda, in a way that given an individual holds one viewpoint of group I or II (defined by my post on the previous page), the probability that (s)he also holds several other viewpoints of the same group is higher than if the viewpoints were assigned randomly. I cannot prove it since the database isn't sufficiently normalized, but I'm reasonably sure it would hold true against assertions to the contrary.

Edit:
And I fear that my background in social science has gotten the better of me.

Edit:
I've already taken that survey, Vertigo. Won't take it a second time

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 septembre 2012 - 05:22 .

[jtav]

I'm not Ieldra, but...

1. Yes. Patrick Weekes wrote Miranda's shipboard convos, romance and loyalty mission. Mac Walters wrote her on the critpath.
2. One group tends to have her more comfortable with the idea of casual sex and using sexuality as a weapon when necessary. The other tries to restrict the number of her sexual partners as much as possible.
3. Doing or advocating actions that advance the mission, within limits, even if they lead to loss of life. Tending to make moral decisions within a consequentialist framework.
6. One group tends to talk about the romance more and view Miranda primarily through the lens of her as a romantic partner.

[lillitheris]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@oh brother:
The hypothesis can be phrased as follows: there is a statistically significant correlation between certain viewpoints of Miranda, in a way that given an individual holds one viewpoint of group I or II (defined by my post on the previous page), the probability that (s)he also holds several other viewpoints of the same group is higher than if the viewpoints were assigned randomly.

You claim that it’s not self-identification, but you should normalize for self-selection because you‘re offering a false dilemma.

…

Anyway, my larger point was that reductionism of this degree is highly troubling, and part of the problem mentioned earlier…

Modifié par lillitheris, 04 septembre 2012 - 05:29 .

[Ieldra]

@lillitheris:
Of course I haven't operationalized the questions fully here. That would be a lot of work, and I'm not actually making a study. I would also need to identify all contentious issues beforehand using a reasonably non-subjective scale of contentiousness. As I said, it's just a hypothesis at this point, but I have seen too many instances of it to believe it's random.

[Taboo]

My pulled pork sandwich was a success. There may be hope for my Shepard yet.

@ lilitheris. Suffice to say a lot of things have Lovecraftian influences. Look at the Mind Flayers in the Forgotten Realms and D&D. Tentacled face. Mind control. Fun stuff. Reminds me of my teenage years staying up late trying to get through the Underdark in Baldur's Gate II. I'm sure I wasn't the only one doing that.

@ Ieldra These fights show what a great character Miranda is. At least I think so. The fact that no one person can agree on everything goes to show you just how grand interpretation can be. Although I've never heard anyone say anything bad about the flashback. But I don't have that so I'll post something smarmy instead.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@lillitheris:
Of course I haven't operationalized the questions fully here. That would be a lot of work, and I'm not actually making a study. I would also need to identify all contentious issues beforehand using a reasonably non-subjective scale of contentiousness. As I said, it's just a hypothesis at this point, but I have seen too many instances of it to believe it's random.

Overall, I think the issue with introducing a very broad generalisation into this type of discussion is that it tends to suggest that anyone with X view probably also holds views Y, Z, etc.

Whether or not they have actually expressed said views. So, that's problematic.

And, of course, even if some very broad trends can be identified, individual opinions will inevitably vary a lot, and that specificity is probably just as important, if not more important, than any type of hypothetical trend.

Another issue with this type of perspective is that it can start to work like a self-fulfilling prophecy and become a lens for looking at reality. That can be true even when actual studies are performed (using methods that try to correct for this type of thing). So... interesting perhaps, to a limited degree, but to be viewed with suspicion imo.

[Taboo]

^ POST THE FLASHBACK. I KNOW YOU HAVE IT.

[MisterJB]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Leviathan DLC Survey!

We're closing it in a few hours time so so just putting it here if you guys missed it

Most disliked character in the DLC: EDI because I kept wishing Miranda had been the one helping Shepard on the lab.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

^ POST THE FLASHBACK. I KNOW YOU HAVE IT.

Always happy to oblige

[Taboo]

Could Miranda have delivered those Easter Egg lines though?

The ones about art, nerfing weapons and sync kills?

And the Plesiosaur...

I thought EDI was better there.

[MisterJB]

Oh yes, I can definitively see Miranda and Shepard going:

"Shepard:Loch Ness monster.
Miranda: Plesiosaur.
Shepard: Loch Ness monster is more interesting.
Miranda: And nonexistent."

[Taboo]

Oh but the deadpan delivery is much more fun.

As for Loch Ness Monsters...LOL

But it is interesting from a sociological perspective. Such things are inspired by folk lore. People are afraid of that which they cannot see. Water is a great place for things to hide.

Not that there's anything there but many cultures have some sort of creature lying beneath the waves.

Nessie. Bunyip. Mokele Mbembe

Fascinating.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 04 septembre 2012 - 06:46 .