82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

I hated School. But nothing matches a producer with a stick up his ass.

That would work well as a dreamscape Babi. Although someone has clearly just removed texture details there.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:04 .

[krukow]

So I just pulled a taboo and killed the geth.

...EDI's reaction... problematic.

Destroy is pretty much an auto-choice now...

[Taboo]

Pro-tip. Don't talk to her. The entire situation is terrible. There is no reason to make it worse.

There will be blood at some point. (Will there be milkshakes too?)

[krukow]

I talked to joker. She was very unhappy.

Destroy will save lives now, I'm convinced.

[Taboo]

BUT WILL YOU DRINK MILKSHAKES?

I pick Destroy because it allows people to choose. We have some serious collateral damage in doing so but considering the other options my Shepard chooses to act NOW. I think all the races growing freely is the most fascinating thing imaginable.

The Reapers can be studied as well. And I would think that once my Shepard divulges a bit more information about these Leviathans they will ALSO be dealt with. And they can be studied as well.

I don't want anything fantastical.

[krukow]

I agree. The reapers have guided the path of the galaxy for millions of years. Control or synthesis leaves them in charge of the universe. Destroy frees the galaxy and allows it to pick it's own path.

I often compare it to the ending of T2 (the greates sci-fi film of all time, blade runner can suck it).

[krukow]

And I drink the reapers milkshake. I drink it up.

Modifié par krukow, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:14 .

[Taboo]

And yet Judgement Day happened regardless. You must not forget that what the Catalyst states IS possible. It would be irresponsible for Shepard to not say anything. Miranda deserves to know too.

Can you imagine Shepard explaining that to her? Eugh.

[krukow]

I ignore future terminator movies, since they were made for money, and not buy the guy who thought the franchis up.

I may owe thanemancers who ignore ME3 an apology...

And why does shep owe anyone an apology? Everyone put the choice in his hands, they can live with the choice he made. Maybe next time they can run to the beam.

[Skullheart]

Miranda: So, that Catalyst, created the reapers to harvest and kill every species, before that specie might be killed by synthethics? What bloody idiot thought that was a good solution?

Shepard: Oh, wait a minute. I still haven't tell you about the LEviathans...

Modifié par Skullheart, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:23 .

[Taboo]

Because even if you have permission you still need to take responsibility. The Galaxy won't care but it's important to do so because you are in a position of power.

You need to relay that information to someone. Someone is going to find out eventually. Knowing Miranda she'd certainly want to know what happened.

But who is told is up to you.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 07 septembre 2012 - 05:25 .

[Dragon_Claw]

Hey Taboo. Glad you liked my "art", that Krukow commissioned. Im pretty sure that the look on Miri`s face, is because she´s rubbing against David´s VERY tight pants (which is offscreen).



@Krukow, I used about 1 hour on this thing. And since Im an Danish certified craftsman & union man, you owe me about 60$. I´ll send a carrier pigeon to collect.  

Modifié par Dragon_Claw, 07 septembre 2012 - 09:19 .

[Berg]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'm not sure what the big deal is with Miranda's "infamous" line in the CB, either. I guess I have just headcanoned that my Shepard's heavy leaning Paragon ways (not thinking the ends justify the means) have rubbed off on Miranda. I'm not sure how it's OOC for her, either. I know she had no problem with using husks, thorian creepers and rachni as shock troops, but I think even she would have a problem using the Collector Base, like she did. That base is too far gone to be used for any good. It would feel like a betrayal, at least to me.

I am reluctant to mention this, in case the whole debate starts full force again. But I guess it cannot be completely ignored. So I will just very simply state why I disagree with a morality based argument about the CB.

N.B. This does not mean that I think your position is invalid. I see your point, I respect it, I am just putting across how I see it.

For me, it is a bit like a crime scene. Imagine police find a mass murderer, who had a cellar where he kept victims. When they arrive they will say "let's get a forensic team in to investiagte this. Let's do post-motems on the bodies. Let's interview any survivors, even though it will be traumatic for everyone. We need to find out exactly what happened, and get a criminal profiler in to try to figure out what is going through this guy's head in the hope that it will help us to understand the motivations, and try to prevent this type of thing happening in the future." They won't say "awful things happened here, lets burn it down."

Note the above only applies if the base was to be used soley as a means of learning about the reapers. Not if there were going to be other uses.

So in conclusion, all I am saying (and I hope most people agree with me) is this: wanting to keep the CB for study is not an instantly evil action. And there are, I will admit, many many strong arguments for destroying the CB, so destroying it is certainly not an instantly foolish action. Ultimately, knowing what we know now, I think that destroying it was the right action. But for different reasons to the ones I outlined above (mainly indoc and the fact that TIM is a bad, bad man).

Modifié par oh brother, 07 septembre 2012 - 10:09 .

[Berg]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

oh brother wrote...

For
me, it is a bit like a crime scene. Imagine police find a mass
murderer, who had a cellar where he kept victims. When they arrive they
will say "let's get a forensic team in to investiagte this. Let's do
post-motems on the bodies. Let's interview any survivors, even though it
will be traumatic for everyone. We need to find out exactly what
happened, and get a criminal profiler in to try to figure out what is
going through this guy's head in the hope that it will help us to
understand the motivations, and try to prevent this type of thing
happening in the future." They won't say "awful things happened here,
lets burn it down."

Note the above only applies if the base was to be used soley as a means
of learning about the reapers. Not if there were going to be other uses.

I
think that's different, though. If you burn down a crime scene, you
lose all evidence of the crime and you have absolutely hamstrung your
investigation. With the Collector Base, I don't think it is needed to
defeat the Reapers, which is proven true in Mass Effect 3. I know everyone differs in opinion, but I don't think that base has any value beyond being a smoking crater.

I
guess we will never know. I think because of TIM and Indoc it probably
is best as a smoking crater. But I don't think it is because of what
happened in the past, but rather what will happen in the future.

BringBackNihlus wrote...


I feel like TIM turning into a bad, bad man in ME3 was actually foreshadowed in ME2, and here's why:

After you aquire the Reaper IFF on the derelict Reaper, the mission summary reads like this:

"Reaper IFF retrieved. Loss of Cerberus team on Reaper vessel unfortunate but unsurprising.

Will use team's health records for comparisons against husks encountered on Reaper for possible insight into indoctrination and husk conversion process."

I don't know about anyone else, but when I read that for the first time I was kind of disturbed by it; obviously relative to Mass Effect. I don't know about anyone else, but that's exactly the route TIM takes in ME3. He is studing indoctrination and the husk conversion process, and masters it with the help of one Henry Lawson. Henry Lawson is bad. The Illusive Man is bad. Bad people doing bad things = not good. Therefore, no Collector Base to enable bad people doing bad things. I felt this way pre-ME3 not knowing what would happen, and I feel that way now.

Yes, I agree. Destroting it to avoid it falling into TIM's hands is a good argument.

[Steelcan]

DEstroying the collector base gains nothing, no new technology or research, saving/destroying it was rendered moot in ME3 but in my opinion saving the base is the best course, destroying it is a short sighted and hasty decision, TIM is right in this case, use everything we can against the reapers.  Destroying it to keep it out of TIM's hands is understandable, but I didn't see any reason not to think he didn't have humanity's interest at heart(at this point). And I think he genuinely thought that control was for humanity's benefit.  Sadly his fall from wanting to destroy the reapers to control was left largely to our own imagination

Modifié par Steelcan, 07 septembre 2012 - 12:15 .

[lillitheris]

oh brother wrote...

So in conclusion, all I am saying (and I hope most people agree with me) is this: wanting to keep the CB for study is not an instantly evil action. And there are, I will admit, many many strong arguments for destroying the CB, so destroying it is certainly not an instantly foolish action. Ultimately, knowing what we know now, I think that destroying it was the right action. But for different reasons to the ones I outlined above (mainly indoc and the fact that TIM is a bad, bad man).

It’s certainly a valid option especially in a vacuum, and so is destroying it. TIM being the recipient makes saving it more problematic.

[Steelcan]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

DEstroying the collector base gains nothing, no new te hnology or research, saving/destroying it was rendered moot in ME3 but in my opinion saving the base is the best course, destroying it is a short sighted and hasty decision, TIM is right in this case, use everything we cn against the reapers

Let's use Jonestown to spread the gospel. It's a really nice compound.

. Sure it's pretty open now

[hot_heart]

Yeah, not to drag up the debate again, but it seems pretty clear what TIM intends to do. He never denies that he'd try to build his own Reaper or reuse the Human one (and it's especially obvious in the dialogue without Miranda there) instead of just study the tech. Of course, that is a separate argument as to whether it "feels like a betrayal". Though, it could be argued that Miranda suspected TIM would effectively be 'reusing' all the dead colonists in some capacity.

I can see validity on equal sides. In places, I see an arc where Miranda has come to appreciate people as more than expendable and herself as more than a 'tool' whereas in others you can see the consequentialist Miranda. And let's not forget that some of her role is 'mechanical' in that she is supposed to offer opinions and advice, so that line is merely in support of Paragon Shepard.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

*Off Topic* Would you be able to compare some  Cells in Cerberus to the RDA Company  in James Cameron's Avatar?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 07 septembre 2012 - 12:50 .

[Dragon_Claw]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

*Off Topic* Would you be able to compare some  Cells in Cerberus to the RDA Company in James Cameron's Avatar?

I would comepare them to the Weyland-Yutani Corporation...

[Steelcan]

hot_heart wrote...

Yeah, not to drag up the debate again, but it seems pretty clear what TIM intends to do. He never denies that he'd try to build his own Reaper or reuse the Human one (and it's especially obvious in the dialogue without Miranda there) instead of just study the tech. Of course, that is a separate argument as to whether it "feels like a betrayal". Though, it could be argued that Miranda suspected TIM would effectively be 'reusing' all the dead colonists in some capacity.

I can see validity on equal sides. In places, I see an arc where Miranda has come to appreciate people as more than expendable and herself as more than a 'tool' whereas in others you can see the consequentialist Miranda. And let's not forget that some of her role is 'mechanical' in that she is supposed to offer opinions and advice, so that line is merely in support of Paragon Shepard.

. Worth it to beat the reapers