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[Dragon_Claw]

MisterJB wrote...

No such thing, I'm afraid.

That´s only because it´s people allow it.

TOP MIRI

Modifié par Dragon_Claw, 07 septembre 2012 - 02:50 .

[Dragon_Claw]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Dragon_Claw wrote...

A non-corrupt government...

Which is the entire point of Moore's creation. Moore is an Anarchist. The book is quite cleary Anti-Reagan and he has stated as much. It asks some very interesting questions about how the world works.

Whether you agree with it is up to you. And that's why I love Watchmen.

"They're watching out for us, who's watching out for them?"

At least the economy wasn't in the ****ter with Regan at the helm...

Put on the glasses!!!

[Taboo]

BringBackNihlus wrote...


At least the economy wasn't in the ****ter with Regan at the helm...

That isn't my point.

It's to show that people's governments are not as "holy" as they think they are. I don't like Ronald Reagan or Margret Thatcher. Especially the latter.

Both created a false sense of pride which is incredibly dangerous. This lead to corruption that is still being felt today. There is nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from. There is a problem when you think that it's your God given right to do whatever you wish.

I don't like what Ozymandias did and I don't think it is a permenant solution. But I can't argue with his results as much as they bother me.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:00 .

[Steelcan]

Enough with the Watchmen

[David7204]

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

[Taboo]

That comic is not a replacement for the first game. It's a half assed way of covering for it. Feros isn't even mentioned. But if you're in a hurry it's good. It's essential if you're on the PS3. And I'm okay with that. Even though the audio is **** in that version/port.

But the first thing you see in game footage after it finishes is Miranda so it isn't all bad.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:02 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

. But there's also heavy themes of cooperation and diversity

[Taboo]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

. But there's also heavy themes of cooperation and diversity

Which is found within Anarchist politics.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

. But there's also heavy themes of cooperation and diversity

Which is found within Anarchist politics.

. True, but government isn't portrayed as evil or Orwellian in ME

[Taboo]

Steelcan wrote...

True, but government isn't portrayed as evil or Orwellian in ME

They are portrayed as incompotent. And quite a bit of the time they are.

The Council is responsible for quite a lot of death once you think about it. After Shepard died they dismissed everything he said. Had they paid him heed they could have used those two years to begin preparations.

[Stalker]

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

In the end, it all speaks against such things though: Many misuse the authority of the Spectres, the Council is generally portrayed as stupid, Cerberus is evil and fails after all... the main theme of Mass Effect is clearly "unity with diversity", the lone wolves get eaten.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[David7204]

...What exactly does cooperation, diversity, or lawlessness have to do with democracy? All of those things can exist perfectly well democratically or autocratically.

Diversity and autocracy aren't opposed to each other. You can have one person commanding a group of very diverse people. Which is pretty much what Shepard does.

Modifié par David7204, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:14 .

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

True, but government isn't portrayed as evil or Orwellian in ME

They are portrayed as incompotent. And quite a bit of the time they are.

The Council is responsible for quite a lot of death once you think about it. After Shepard died they dismissed everything he said. Had they paid him heed they could have used those two years to begin preparations.

. Incompetent yes, but they are not like Ingsoc or Nordstrom etc...

[Steelcan]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

In the end, it all speaks against such things though: Many misuse the authority of the Spectres, the Council is generally portrayed as stupid, Cerberus is evil and fails after all... the main theme of Mass Effect is clearly "unity with diversity"

Well, that's until you forcibly synthesize the galaxy's DNA, the preferred ending of the creators of the game and their five minutes remaining in the game antagonist.

Diversity dies forever. PEACE AND LOVE

. Another argument against Synthesis

[Taboo]

Sometimes the best solution is pragmatism. Sometimes the best solution is emotional. Being able to weigh each decision on its own merits is important.

Balance is the key.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sometimes the best solution is pragmatism. Sometimes the best solution is emotional. Being able to weigh each decision on its own merits is important.

Balance is the key.

. I thought memory was the key?

[Stalker]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

David7204 wrote...

It's interesting. Mass Effect has a lot of somewhat anti-democratic themes, albeit light ones. One person in charge, one person making the difference. The Spectres. The Council. Cerberus. The turian government.

In the end, it all speaks against such things though: Many misuse the authority of the Spectres, the Council is generally portrayed as stupid, Cerberus is evil and fails after all... the main theme of Mass Effect is clearly "unity with diversity"

Well, that's until you forcibly synthesize the galaxy's DNA, the preferred ending of the creators of the game and their five minutes remaining in the series antagonist.

Diversity dies forever. PEACE AND LOVE

... and that's exactly why I think it's lore-breaking. Against everything the game tried to tell you.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 07 septembre 2012 - 03:21 .

[David7204]

If I had an opportunity to completely remake Mass Effect from the ground up, all the way from the beginning of the first game to the end of the third, there is no way in hell I would let it be a democratic process with the BSN. There is no way in hell I would put things up to the BSN for a vote. It would turn out god awful. I would listen to what people had to say, but end of the day, I'd make the decision.

[Taboo]

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Sometimes the best solution is pragmatism. Sometimes the best solution is emotional. Being able to weigh each decision on its own merits is important.

Balance is the key.

. I thought memory was the key?

The moment you rely soley on pragmatism you fail. The moment you rely solely on absolutism you fail.

To think and weigh each decision is wise.

[Stalker]

David7204 wrote...

If I had an opportunity to completely remake Mass Effect from the ground up, all the way from the beginning of the first game to the end of the third, there is no way in hell I would let it be a democratic process with the BSN. There is no way in hell I would put things up to the BSN for a vote. It would turn out god awful. I would listen to what people had to say, but end of the day, I'd make the decision.

Well, it's common knowledge that people as in a group of individuals, are stupid. BSN is no exception.