82210 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

I find it uplifiting, to be sincere.
Shepard's body has been maimed beyond repair, he doesn't have a credit and the "Shepard" name will probrably be reviled until the end of time.
Miranda still wants to marry him.

He killed the Reapers.

How will he be reviled? How will he be poor?

Just because he doesn't jump into the Synthesis beam doesn't make him a terrible person.

It's not uplifting. It's depressing as hell. 

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 09 septembre 2012 - 02:49 .

[Lawrence0294]

Like MisterJB said, eventhough the situation of Shepard could be seen as grim or sad, the idea of the scene is that despite all those physical flaws, Miranda couldn't care less about them and still wants to marry Shepard.

I think it's interesting.

[Lawrence0294]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

kratos0294 wrote...

Like MisterJB said, eventhough the situation of Shepard could be seen as grim or sad, the idea of the scene is that despite all those physical flaws, Miranda couldn't care less about them and still wants to marry Shepard.

I think it's interesting.

That's nice and all, but we're start to delve into the endings underworld now, and incorporating that into it. Apparently:

Synthesis: Super happy peace time
Control: Super happy peace time
Destroy: Super bad bastard time

I obviously strongly disagree on this but i don't think it'd be a good idea to go there.

...........again

[MisterJB]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't mention Synthesis or Control.

Since when has history been kind? Everyone on Earth will never forget the Alliance left and took its sweet time to return; the quarians will suspect a human of wanting to destroy their alliance with the geth; if the krogans become a threat, no one will forget it was Shepard who cured the Genophage; the actions of Cerberus will not be forgotten anytime soon and neither will Shepard's association with them; and I seriously doubt the batarians are just going to let the destruction of the Bahak system slide.

[Lawrence0294]

MisterJB wrote...

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't mention Synthesis or Control.

Since when has history been kind? Everyone on Earth will never forget the Alliance left and took its sweet time to return; the quarians will suspect a human of wanting to destroy their alliance with the geth; if the krogans become a threat, no one will forget it was Shepard who cured the Genophage; the actions of Cerberus will not be forgotten anytime soon and neither will Shepard's association with them; and I seriously doubt the batarians are just going to let the destruction of the Bahak system slide.

I think aftair having survived a near galactic extenction, they could cut him some slack for, you know, saving everyone. 

Modifié par kratos0294, 09 septembre 2012 - 02:56 .

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't mention Synthesis or Control.

Since when has history been kind? Everyone on Earth will never forget the Alliance left and took its sweet time to return; the quarians will suspect a human of wanting to destroy their alliance with the geth; if the krogans become a threat, no one will forget it was Shepard who cured the Genophage; the actions of Cerberus will not be forgotten anytime soon and neither will Shepard's association with them; and I seriously doubt the batarians are just going to let the destruction of the Bahak system slide.

Yeah. And who was there each time? The alliance left. Shepard came back with everything he could. You propose he stay and get vaporized? The Quarians will know that Shepard was the one who brokered peace with the Geth, and stood by them and helped them a great deal as well. He wouldn't do what he did without a good reason. No, no one will forget, but that's the Krogans flaw not Shepard. Shepard is pretty much already vindicated after Cerberus, in ME3, I don't see why they would suddenly all turn on him at the drop of a hat like you suggest. And the Batarians were nearly wiped out by the Reapers. They've seen what they can do. They'll hate Shepard and humanity, nothing will ever change that. But they already hated them before, so there's really nothing super different, especially since the Batarians will probably realize everyone on Aratoht were doomed anyway. 

And Shepard killed the Reapers. No matter what he did in the past, this is what he is going to be remembered for above all. He killed the Reapers and saved Galactic Civilization. The Galaxy is free to evolve in its own way without the threat of the Reapers.

Nothing else matters. If that was the cost to stopping them, they'll deal with it and live with it.

And your use of rhetoric indirectly implies that by picking Destroy, Shepard will be hated forever.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:04 .

[MisterJB]

Well, when have people ever done that?
Let's assume the Alliance or any other human centric group tries to use Shepard's popularity as well as the fact it was on Earth the war was ended to increase human influence, which is only to be expected.
How long until there are STGs trying to assassinate him or turn public opinion against him?

[jtav]

I don't think Shepard will be publicly reviled. All people will know is that they survived. But galactic society is fractured for the next 15-20 years. Every major urban center is a disaster area. And there's no deus ex machina to easily repair damage. Shepard made the choice. Expecting Miranda to hate him is reasonable. And she chooses to marry him, just as he chose her when she had nothing to offer in ME3. Yes, I find that romantic.

Modifié par jtav, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:12 .

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

Well, when have people ever done that?
Let's assume the Alliance or any other human centric group tries to use Shepard's popularity as well as the fact it was on Earth the war was ended to increase human influence, which is only to be expected.
How long until there are STGs trying to assassinate him or turn public opinion against him?

All Shepard has to do is say they're full of ****. He'll have to say it a bit, but I think they'll all get the gist of what he's saying. Maybe the alliance will hate him, but they're a minority. The Turians will respect him greatly, as will the Elcor, Hanar, Drell, and Volus. 

The Dalatrass may try to have him assassinated, but mostly out of personal spite for humiliating her.

And Shepard won't have to worry about public opinion ever again. 

He killed the Reapers. Nothing he did before or will do after is going to overshadow that, unless he creates new Reapers to finish what the old started. I don't think that's going to happen though.

Crap I just realized that the above line is going to give jtav and Ieldra idea's...

[MisterJB]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'm not putting words in your mouth, because I don't need to. They're already there, you're just not literally saying them.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see what you're implying. If you choose Destroy, Shepard ends up a broken man, and he is reviled for his choice; but you hedge with throwing in the Miranda part.

Don't play me for a fool.

Then don't act like one. I implied nothing.
I think Shepard will be reviled regardless of his final choice.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

I don't think Shepard will be publicly reviled. All people will know is that they survived. But galactic society is fractured for the next 15-20 years. Every major urban center is a disaster area. And there's no deus ex machina to easily repair damage. Shepard made the choice. Expecting Miranda to hate him is reasonable. And she chooses to marry him. Yes, I find that romantic.

Shephard will be feted as the hero of the galaxy imo. Now people are going to want to use him dead or alive to serve their own agendas. My Shep who survived destroy learned that lesson the 1st time he died and this time round he'll be the one using his status for his agenda with Miranda help. In the longer term history i see people picking apart what Shep did and attacking some of the choices he made. That's human nature though.

Can't think of a single reason Miranda might hate Shep.

Modifié par wright1978, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:16 .

[fiendishchicken]

jtav wrote...

I don't think Shepard will be publicly reviled. All people will know is that they survived. But galactic society is fractured for the next 15-20 years. Every major urban center is a disaster area. And there's no deus ex machina to easily repair damage. Shepard made the choice. Expecting Miranda to hate him is reasonable. And she chooses to marry him. Yes, I find that romantic.

Expecting her to hate him? 

You're putting too much of Jane Eyre into her. My personal feelings for the work aside (rather negative, no, very negative), the one thing Shepard can always count on is Miranda's love.

That's much more romantic.

And once more, with feeling;

Shepard killed the Reapers. People are gonna know this. He won't be hated. Anything is better than the threat of immediate annihilation for everybody. And people are industrious. They'll rebuild and they'll rebuild together. 

Shepard is the champion of the galaxy.

[MisterJB]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Yeah. And who was there each time? The alliance left. Shepard came back with everything he could. You propose he stay and get vaporized? The Quarians will know that Shepard was the one who brokered peace with the Geth, and stood by them and helped them a great deal as well. He wouldn't do what he did without a good reason. No, no one will forget, but that's the Krogans flaw not Shepard. Shepard is pretty much already vindicated after Cerberus, in ME3, I don't see why they would suddenly all turn on him at the drop of a hat like you suggest. And the Batarians were nearly wiped out by the Reapers. They've seen what they can do. They'll hate Shepard and humanity, nothing will ever change that. But they already hated them before, so there's really nothing super different, especially since the Batarians will probably realize everyone on Aratoht were doomed anyway. 

And Shepard killed the Reapers. No matter what he did in the past, this is what he is going to be remembered for above all. He killed the Reapers and saved Galactic Civilization. The Galaxy is free to evolve in its own way without the threat of the Reapers.

Nothing else matters. If that was the cost to stopping them, they'll deal with it and live with it.

And your use of rhetoric indirectly implies that by picking Destroy, Shepard will be hated forever.

Shepard will be hated by many forever regardless of his final choice. Because, no matter his choices, he will be a controversial figure.

Public opinion isn't fair. Do you think everyone will care to look into why he made his decisions? That the batarians will care why their system was destroyed? Or that, after the new Krogan Rebellions, people will remember why krogan help was needed? They never do, people forget the good easily but never the bad.
Every organization in the galaxy will atempt to make it look like it was them who destroyed the Reapers and will want to make their former allies look bad. Shepard is not immune to that.

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

BringBackNihlus wrote...

I'm not putting words in your mouth, because I don't need to. They're already there, you're just not literally saying them.

Anyone with a functioning brain can see what you're implying. If you choose Destroy, Shepard ends up a broken man, and he is reviled for his choice; but you hedge with throwing in the Miranda part.

Don't play me for a fool.

Then don't act like one. I implied nothing.
I think Shepard will be reviled regardless of his final choice.

He Killed the Reapers. K-I-L-L-E-D. Destroyed, annihilated, smashed, ruined, obliterated, wrecked, broke, dismantled, annulled, ravished, slayed, wasted, wiped out, trashed, eradicated, exterminated, despoiled, whatever.

He is not going to be hated. 

If you think he's going to be, go ahead and think that.

[wright1978]

MisterJB wrote...

Shepard will be hated by many forever regardless of his final choice. Because, no matter his choices, he will be a controversial figure.

Public opinion isn't fair. Do you think everyone will care to look into why he made his decisions? That the batarians will care why their system was destroyed? Or that, after the new Krogan Rebellions, people will remember why krogan help was needed? They never do, people forget the good easily but never the bad.
Every organization in the galaxy will atempt to make it look like it was them who destroyed the Reapers and will want to make their former allies look bad. Shepard is not immune to that.

Disagree completely Shep will be revered in the immediate aftermath for ending the scourge that was intent on wiping all life out in the galaxy. Now years later when generations that didn't endure the horror of the war then they may very well have a different view of his choices.

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
Yeah. And who was there each time? The alliance left. Shepard came back with everything he could. You propose he stay and get vaporized? The Quarians will know that Shepard was the one who brokered peace with the Geth, and stood by them and helped them a great deal as well. He wouldn't do what he did without a good reason. No, no one will forget, but that's the Krogans flaw not Shepard. Shepard is pretty much already vindicated after Cerberus, in ME3, I don't see why they would suddenly all turn on him at the drop of a hat like you suggest. And the Batarians were nearly wiped out by the Reapers. They've seen what they can do. They'll hate Shepard and humanity, nothing will ever change that. But they already hated them before, so there's really nothing super different, especially since the Batarians will probably realize everyone on Aratoht were doomed anyway. 

And Shepard killed the Reapers. No matter what he did in the past, this is what he is going to be remembered for above all. He killed the Reapers and saved Galactic Civilization. The Galaxy is free to evolve in its own way without the threat of the Reapers.

Nothing else matters. If that was the cost to stopping them, they'll deal with it and live with it.

And your use of rhetoric indirectly implies that by picking Destroy, Shepard will be hated forever.

Shepard will be hated by many forever regardless of his final choice. Because, no matter his choices, he will be a controversial figure.

Public opinion isn't fair. Do you think everyone will care to look into why he made his decisions? That the batarians will care why their system was destroyed? Or that, after the new Krogan Rebellions, people will remember why krogan help was needed? They never do, people forget the good easily but never the bad.
Every organization in the galaxy will atempt to make it look like it was them who destroyed the Reapers and will want to make their former allies look bad. Shepard is not immune to that.

You're rather nihilistic aren't you.

I know PO isn't fair.

The Batarians hate him now, they hated him before, and they'll always hate him. Aratoht did little to change that. But they hate the Reapers more, and the Reapers did much more damage to them. One fringe colony versus their homeworld. 

You assume the Krogan are going to rebel again. Keep Wrex and Bakara alive, and it's not guaranteed, but the Krogan have they're pride back. I think they're going to become a rather industrious and peaceful race.

And people don't forget the good. Thomas Jefferson is renowned as a Founding Father and an American Legend. He also slept with his slaves and was known to gamble and get drunk.

Andrew Jackson swore, was vulgar, rude, and described as a very unpleasant man by his peers, indulging in many vices and having unacceptable, racist opinions on many issues. He's looked at as one of the Greatest American Legends ever. 

John F. Kennedy had Irish mob connections and was known to sleep around with other women, including Marilyn Monroe and perhaps worse, a Soviet Spy. He also ****ed up royally with the Bay of Pigs fiasco and began to sludge into a tiny southeast Asian country called Vietnam

He is known as a President who talked down the Russians during the CMC and was the President who helped with Civil Rights and the President who got us into space and onto the moon. And he could have been so much more.

[MisterJB]

I'm realistic. There may be a tendency for cooperation in the years following the war but political competition is as old as mankind itself. There will be resentment for what was done and what failed to be done during the war and Shepard will be an easy prey.
People are going to descend on him like vultures and yes, they forget the good easily. After the krogan rebellions, few bothered reminding others it had been the krogan who stopped the rachni. After the turians stopped the krogan, they weren't granted a seat because people were grateful. The turians were granted a seat because they had an enormous fleet. If humanity saved the Council, there weren't aliens voluteering to help the disapering colonies. Once Shepard was dead, everything he said was imediatelly discredited because it didn't suit the purposes of those in power.

Modifié par MisterJB, 09 septembre 2012 - 03:45 .

[Steelcan]

MisterJB wrote...

I'm realistic. There may be a tendency for cooperation in the years following the war but political competition is as old as mankind itself. There will be resentment for what was done and what failed to be done during the war and Shepard will be an easy prey.
People are going to descend on him like vultures and yes, they forget the good easily. After the krogan rebellions, few bothered reminding others it had been the krogan who stopped the rachni. After the turians stopped the krogan, they weren't granted a seat because people were grateful. The turians were granted a seat because they had an enormous fleet. If humanity saved the Council, there weren't aliens voluteering to help the disapering colonies. Once Shepard was dead, everything he said was imediatelly discredited because it didn't suit the purposes of those in power.

. You really do not want Destroy to be a happy ending do you?

[fiendishchicken]

MisterJB wrote...

I'm realistic. There may be a tendency for cooperation in the years following the war but political competition is as old as mankind itself. There will be resentment for what was done and what failed to be done during the war and Shepard will be an easy prey.
People are going to descend on him like vultures and yes, they forget the good easily. After the krogan rebellions, few bothered reminding others it had been the krogan who stopped the rachni. After the turians stopped the krogan, they weren't granted a seat because people were grateful. The turians were granted a seat because they had an enormous fleet. If humanity saved the Council, there weren't aliens voluteering to help the disapering colonies. Once Shepard was dead, everything he said was imediatelly discredited because it didn't suit the purposes of those in power.

Yes there will be resentment. But not towards Shepard. Anyone who properly looks through history will see that Shepard was the one who wouldn't shut up about the Reapers. The council and alliance will be blamed. Shepard will catch some heat, but only some. 

This is different though. EVERYONE has seen the Reapers. They all know what happened. And they're going to make sure that everyone knows what happened. Shepard was the one there yelling about the Reapers before annyone else.

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I'm realistic. There may be a tendency for cooperation in the years following the war but political competition is as old as mankind itself. There will be resentment for what was done and what failed to be done during the war and Shepard will be an easy prey.
People are going to descend on him like vultures and yes, they forget the good easily. After the krogan rebellions, few bothered reminding others it had been the krogan who stopped the rachni. After the turians stopped the krogan, they weren't granted a seat because people were grateful. The turians were granted a seat because they had an enormous fleet. If humanity saved the Council, there weren't aliens voluteering to help the disapering colonies. Once Shepard was dead, everything he said was imediatelly discredited because it didn't suit the purposes of those in power.

. You really do not want Destroy to be a happy ending do you?

In an honest defense, I headcanon a High EMS Refuse/Destroy combination victory.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Yes there will be resentment. But not towards Shepard. Anyone who properly looks through history will see that Shepard was the one who wouldn't shut up about the Reapers. The council and alliance will be blamed. Shepard will catch some heat, but only some. 

This is different though. EVERYONE has seen the Reapers. They all know what happened. And they're going to make sure that everyone knows what happened. Shepard was the one there yelling about the Reapers before annyone else.

. Shepard post destroy would be a hero.  Batarians will likely be going extinct, and they hated humans anyways, the Krogan might just make Shepard a Krogan Saint, the Turians also love him.  Salarians... Who really cares, even the Salarian military was on Shepard's side only that one Dalatrass was upset, and the Quarians will also love Shepard.  The only powerful race who wouldn't love Shpard would be the Asari.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I'm realistic. There may be a tendency for cooperation in the years following the war but political competition is as old as mankind itself. There will be resentment for what was done and what failed to be done during the war and Shepard will be an easy prey.
People are going to descend on him like vultures and yes, they forget the good easily. After the krogan rebellions, few bothered reminding others it had been the krogan who stopped the rachni. After the turians stopped the krogan, they weren't granted a seat because people were grateful. The turians were granted a seat because they had an enormous fleet. If humanity saved the Council, there weren't aliens voluteering to help the disapering colonies. Once Shepard was dead, everything he said was imediatelly discredited because it didn't suit the purposes of those in power.

. You really do not want Destroy to be a happy ending do you?

In an honest defense, I headcanon a High EMS Refuse/Destroy combination victory.

. How?

[MisterJB]

Steelcan wrote...
You really do not want Destroy to be a happy ending do you?

As I've said before, this has nothing to do with Destroy.
I believe there will be a great amount of resentment against Shepard (as well as against the Alliance, Council, humans, asari in general, etc, etc)  regardless of the final choice.