82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

@laikabaws.

Thank you the pictures

MisterJB wrote...

I don't anguish all day in my room thinking about it. But it still decreases my enjoyment of the game immensely and I'll properly explain our grievances with it on the forums in hope that it might be fixed somehow.
Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

 

jtav wrote...

It's precisely because I do care about things other than romance that I find Miranda's arc objectionable. The romance is nice as far as it goes. But I want to see the woman willing to fight and die for all humanity. The woman spoiling for a challenge, who deeply cares about things. Not the woman so myopic I wonder if she's mentally ill. ME2 Miranda is an abrasive jerk. ME3 Miranda doesn't pass muster as a decent human being.

She isn't really integral to the plot though. She has fifteen minutes of screen time. I'm not expecting anything particularly radical to happen in those fifteen minutes.

How much good will a DLC do to fix these issues for you? Will it fix what's already in the game for you?

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 14 septembre 2012 - 05:52 .

[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

She isn't really integral to the plot though. She has fifteen minutes of screen time. I'm not expecting anything particularly radical to happen in those fifteen minutes.

How much good will a DLC do to fix these issues for you? Will it fix what's already in the game for you?

Disagree completely. With the level of content Miranda had we could easily have seen a more rounded portrayal of Miranda with the Oriana focus kicking in later and a decent about of professional desire to fight back at the abomination TIM ismaking of the organisation she worked for such a long time.

As for DLC. Well if she appears on Omega and gets to recruit Petrovsky and his gang to her renegades it would provide some improved focus on her caring about what was happening with Cerberus and showing Renegades wasn't something she just did after she rescued Oriana but a concerted effort to strike back that was planned from the start.

[lillitheris]

The cognitive dissonance about Cerberus is just staggering.

[Taboo]

You want a rounded role in fifteen minutes?

She hardly as lines at all. Why would you use anything other than those to further her arc that is planned?

How many lines do you need? One? Two? Ten? Twenty?

[krukow]

Oriana

Sweet 16

DLC

Get it done Mac!

[Ieldra]

wright1978 wrote...
As for DLC. Well if she appears on Omega and gets to recruit Petrovsky and his gang to her renegades it would provide some improved focus on her caring about what was happening with Cerberus and showing Renegades wasn't something she just did after she rescued Oriana but a concerted effort to strike back that was planned from the start.

Yep. Something to show that rescuing her sister wasn't the only thing she was concerned about would be a great help.

Nothing can fix her absence from Cronos Station, though. How they ever let that opportunity pass is beyond my comprehension.

[jtav]

Miranda has the largest role of any ME2 squadmate, including Mordin and Legion. Rounded portrayals were managed with them and with Jack, who has much less.

[Taboo]

jtav wrote...

Miranda has the largest role of any ME2 squadmate, including Mordin and Legion. Rounded portrayals were managed with them and with Jack, who has much less.

wat

Did you not notice how huge the asspulls were on Legion and Mordin?

[MisterJB]

Miranda had enough content to approach any subject other than Oriana. It was deliberately avoided.

That holo conversation on the Citadel? It's pretty much pointless now but it could have been used for anything other than dispensing useless information we already knew about her father.

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

Miranda had enough content to approach any subject other than Oriana. It was deliberately avoided.

That holo conversation on the Citadel? It's pretty much pointless now but it could have been used for anything other than dispensing useless information we already knew about her father.

Can you...prove that?

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

Miranda has the largest role of any ME2 squadmate, including Mordin and Legion. Rounded portrayals were managed with them and with Jack, who has much less.

Yep Miranda's role is so full of filler content. It leaves me with the impression that Jay was under orders to avoid Cerberus because it would conflict with their tragic death scenario. Otherwise it is just appalling writing to fill the role with padding and avoid what should have been a crucial part of her story.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Don't people here play the game for things other than Romance?

Romance is fairly low on my list of reasons why I play the game.

The characters are high on the list, though, especially the ones I like a lot.

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[krukow]

Flemm's favorite part of every playthrough is when he can add Allers to his crew.
BEST. CHARACTER. EVER.

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

Flemm's favorite part of every playthrough is when he can add Allers to his crew.
BEST. CHARACTER. EVER.

Shush. That's part of my secret headcanon :happy:

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:17 .

[jtav]

And imagine if you'd arrived at Sanctuary at roughly the same time as Miranda and actually had to listen to her reaction to the fact that her father and Cerberus have set up a concentration camp. They had plenty of resources that were used badly.

[Taboo]

wright1978 wrote...
Yep Miranda's role is so full of filler content. It leaves me with the impression that Jay was under orders to avoid Cerberus because it would conflict with their tragic death scenario. Otherwise it is just appalling writing to fill the role with padding and avoid what should have been a crucial part of her story.

So you're more convinced that there's a secret plot at work and that the simplest answer that it's just bad isn't valid?

I think the latter is far more likely.

[MisterJB]

If you want me to show a recording where you can hear Hudson ordering Jay to writting anything for Miranda that conflicted with what is normaly perceived as "good", I can't.
I can, however, look at her role, see the amount of useless filler that could have been used for something else and also notice the defense of traditional, familial values and come to the conclusion that it was a deliberate move.
It might be an assumption but it's a very safe one.

[flemm]

Taboo-XX wrote...

So you're more convinced that there's a secret plot at work and that the simplest answer that it's just bad isn't valid?

I think the latter is far more likely.

Well, telling a junior writer to do X or Y isn't like a secret plot or conspiracy. I'm sure it happens all the time.

But whatever.

That aspect ended up not being good. So, I would like to see it improved. I'd rather it weren't necessary, but identifying this type of issue does tend to get results.

There's a reason the flashback is amazing:

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:25 .

[wright1978]

Taboo-XX wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Yep Miranda's role is so full of filler content. It leaves me with the impression that Jay was under orders to avoid Cerberus because it would conflict with their tragic death scenario. Otherwise it is just appalling writing to fill the role with padding and avoid what should have been a crucial part of her story.

So you're more convinced that there's a secret plot at work and that the simplest answer that it's just bad isn't valid?

I think the latter is far more likely.

Given the portayal of Cerberus in ME3 i think it is equally likely that they just wanted to avoid Cerberus content for a former high ranking Cerberus member who they wanted players to feel sad at her tragic death. But yes it could be equally that they handed her off to a junior writer with Oriana plot hook and that person just followed it to the letter without any imagination.

[Steelcan]

jtav wrote...

And imagine if you'd arrived at Sanctuary at roughly the same time as Miranda and actually had to listen to her reaction to the fact that her father and Cerberus have set up a concentration camp. They had plenty of resources that were used badly.

. Especially if you handed over the Collector base

[flemm]

Also, some people with a lot of influence clearly wanted Miranda's death to be unavoidable (because she was too tightly linked to Cerberus in their minds to be allowed to survive).

If fans hadn't been speaking up loudly over the summer and into the early fall, when the game was being finished, I'm not sure the people who disagreed would have gotten their way.

Something to keep in mind.

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2012 - 06:37 .

[David7204]

What "asspulls" for Mordin and Legion are we talking about?

[Taboo]

MisterJB wrote...

If you want me to show a recording where you can hear Hudson ordering Jay to writting anything for Miranda that conflicted with what is normaly perceived as "good", I can't.
I can, however, look at her role, see the amount of useless filler that could have been used for something else and also notice the defense of traditional, familial values and come to the conclusion that it was a deliberate move.
It might be an assumption but it's a very safe one.

No it really isn't a safe assumption. I think parts of it offend you deeply and it makes you very biased.

It's just bad, just like a lot of things in the third game. It's a chocolate with a hollow inside. Trying to make sense of it will only lead to more headache.

It's best to accept it or move on.

[Taboo]

flemm wrote...

Also, some people with a lot of influence clearly wanted Miranda's death to be unavoidable (because she was too tightly linked to Cerberus in their minds to be allowed to survive).

If fans hadn't been speaking up loudly over the summer and into the early fall, when the game was being finished, I'm not sure the people who disagreed would have gotten their way.

Something to keep in mind.

Can you prove that?

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

Also, some people with a lot of influence clearly wanted Miranda's death to be unavoidable (because she was too tightly linked to Cerberus in their minds to be allowed to survive).

If fans hadn't been speaking up loudly over the summer and into the early fall, when the game was being finished, I'm not sure the people who disagreed would have gotten their way.

Something to keep in mind.

While I'm not sure I believe that, if that's the case, thank you fans.  I didn't join till after ME3, but I would have been CRUSHED if she had to die.

Would have been worse than the original endings...