82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

hey! there's nothing wrong with dens of mad scientists! you need them for the next doomsday weapon (especially when it inevitably goes catastrphically wrong)!!

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 05 août 2011 - 08:48 .

[Arijharn]

I hope actually that no one 'takes down' Cerberus, but I realize I'm in the vast minority when I say I actually like the Illusive Man, I like how he's just so conflicting. I don't think Miranda has necessarily the right traits for the job, because Cerberus is always going to attract the sort of people it has imo.

Having said that though, I'd be very surprised if TIM does somehow cark it during the events of ME3, because TIM is nothing if not a survivor imo.

[The Elder King]

Arijharn wrote...

I hope actually that no one 'takes down' Cerberus, but I realize I'm in the vast minority when I say I actually like the Illusive Man, I like how he's just so conflicting. I don't think Miranda has necessarily the right traits for the job, because Cerberus is always going to attract the sort of people it has imo.

Having said that though, I'd be very surprised if TIM does somehow cark it during the events of ME3, because TIM is nothing if not a survivor imo.

I like how TIM is being developed by Bioware. He's one of the best character created in ME in my opinion. But my main Shepard doesn't like him. He can't trust him. Remember that Shepard doesn't know nothing of TIM's past, while we do. I generally don't let my knowledge of the ME universe that have been shown outside the games affects my decisions in the games (for example, I replayed ME after the comics about Liara and the SB have been release. But even it I hate the SB, my Shepard gave to the SB agent the info about Cerberus in ME, because from what he knew, the SB could help him in the future).

[ParadoxAu]

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is possible that the name "Cerberus" has to be discarded. But then, maybe it would be better to retain it. I don't know nor do I particularly care, but regardless of that, the term "Illusive Woman" has a certain mystique to it. I would like it if Miranda gained that moniker.

I would prefer that, Miranda disbands Cerberus and forms a new organization using the remaining resources, even though there isn't any major difference.

I agree that the title "Illusive Woman" does have a mystique to it, however I'm not sure I want Miranda to obtain that alias.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 05 août 2011 - 10:50 .

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
I hope actually that no one 'takes down' Cerberus, but I realize I'm in the vast minority when I say I actually like the Illusive Man, I like how he's just so conflicting. I don't think Miranda has necessarily the right traits for the job, because Cerberus is always going to attract the sort of people it has imo.

Having said that though, I'd be very surprised if TIM does somehow cark it during the events of ME3, because TIM is nothing if not a survivor imo.

I understand you. I'm rather conflicted about TIM myself, he's such an interesting character. But in the end, Cerberus *is* an enemy in ME3, and as some team member correctly remarks, Shepard's enemies have a habit of ending up dead. I really don't know what will happen with him. It appears unimaginable that he may die, but still this is the Reaper war, nobody is off-limits.

What I do know is that I want Miranda to take over his organization and his moniker. The details, such as what that organization will be named and how exactly the resource transfer goes, don't matter.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 août 2011 - 10:52 .

[Arijharn]

I know this is a backhanded compliment, but I think giving Cerberus to Miranda might make it too... good? Does that make sense? I want some sort of conflict in regards to them because I think it makes for an interesting take.

Having said that; I honestly don't think Miranda has the same level of charisma or the necessary... panache... to carry off being the Illusive Woman. It's hard to explain I guess, I think she can be cold and follow a sort of rigid 'ethics' of her own design, but somehow I think she'd lack the initiative to take on more 'direct' sort of tactics. Good example would be the drug compound that impeded biotic capabilities as outlined in the Cerberus dossier. I think following perhaps unconventional leads is the hallmark of Cerberus more than anything else, but I don't think Miranda is that much of a risk taker.

[jtav]

If by "risk taker" you mean "suborns medical torture" then she isn't.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
I know this is a backhanded compliment, but I think giving Cerberus to Miranda might make it too... good? Does that make sense? I want some sort of conflict in regards to them because I think it makes for an interesting take.

I'm one of those who thinks Miranda is capable of getting near the moral event horizon with what she does.

Having said that; I honestly don't think Miranda has the same level of charisma or the necessary... panache... to carry off being the Illusive Woman. It's hard to explain I guess, I think she can be cold and follow a sort of rigid 'ethics' of her own design, but somehow I think she'd lack the initiative to take on more 'direct' sort of tactics. Good example would be the drug compound that impeded biotic capabilities as outlined in the Cerberus dossier. I think following perhaps unconventional leads is the hallmark of Cerberus more than anything else, but I don't think Miranda is that much of a risk taker.

She's never gotten the chance to show initiative, but I think she'd have it. See the control chip comment. She definitely has ideas of her own and the will to follow up on them. About the charisma, well, yes, she doesn't have much of that, but she could make up for it by being persuasive with arguments.

@jtav:
I find it absolutely believable that Miranda would develop a drug like that. She just wouldn't find permanent damage acceptable as a side effect, and consequently the actual testing process would be different.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 août 2011 - 11:56 .

[jtav]

It's the side effects and procedure I was referring to. I believe the dossier even refers to captured asari, but can't check. Cerberus under TIM seems to automatically go for the most inefficient, sadistic way of accomplishing their goals. The drug is useful.

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

I know this is a backhanded compliment, but I think giving Cerberus to Miranda might make it too... good? Does that make sense? I want some sort of conflict in regards to them because I think it makes for an interesting take.

Having said that; I honestly don't think Miranda has the same level of charisma or the necessary... panache... to carry off being the Illusive Woman. It's hard to explain I guess, I think she can be cold and follow a sort of rigid 'ethics' of her own design, but somehow I think she'd lack the initiative to take on more 'direct' sort of tactics. Good example would be the drug compound that impeded biotic capabilities as outlined in the Cerberus dossier. I think following perhaps unconventional leads is the hallmark of Cerberus more than anything else, but I don't think Miranda is that much of a risk taker.

Pre-Freedom's Progress Miranda was willing to implant a control chip in someone and TIM trusted her enough to meet him in person in his personal space station(which is an honor only a select few get according to Retribution). Based on that one would assume she's not ignorant about what Cerberus is really about and agrees with their methods but we're dealing with a game that has shown inconsistant writing(Post-CB squadmate dialogue anyone?).

[jtav]

Second installment of romance dialogues. I still have the Paramour scene to do, but probably not today. I may also go back and revise the first convo to fix pacing issues.

LOTSB

L: So what are you fighting for? The future of humanity as evidenced by the perfect Ms. Lawson?
S: She’s come a long way from wanting to put a control chip in my skull. I care about her, and I want her to be happy.
L: She was so focused on the mission when I first met her. I was convinced Cerberus was her whole world.
S: Oh, she’s still focused on the mission. Trust me.
L: You wouldn’t care about her if she wasn’t. But I never heard her laugh until you came along. I hope the two of you find some happiness, Shepard.

“Locker”

(Briefing room, after the Collector attack. Shepard stands over the console, head bowed. Sound of door opening. He looks up. Miranda)
S: Forget something?
M: (clearly out of her depth, uncomfortable) I came to see how you were doing.
S: The Collectors attacked my ship and took my crew and I have no idea how I’m going to get them back! How do you think I’m doing?
M: (crosses the room, raises a hand to put it on Shepard’s shoulder, drops it again) I won’t promise you that we can save them. They may already be dead. We all took a risk when we signed on.
S: You’re just a ray of sunshine, you know that?
M: Let me finish. (They face each other. He grasps her hands.) I won’t promise you that we can save them, bit if anyone can, it’s you. And I’ll be right there with you when we go through the relay.
S: Right there with me? I like the sound of that. Come on, we have work to do.

[MisterJB]

People and the control chip…
Am I really the only one who thinks that, wanting to put a control chip on the brain of Shepard, fully trained N7 agent and vowed enemy of Cerberus (you don’t get the choice in ME1 to not destroy the Cerberus bases except by, ofc, not playing the missions), who was about to be given command over the most ambitious and important project Cerberus ever undertook, actually proves nothing, one way or the other? Besides, of course, that Miranda is cautious and itelligent? It’s really not a big deal.
If you really want to show Miranda’s most ruthless side, just talk about how she defended the Cerberus attack on the Quarian flotilla by saying “It was nothing personal”. I really would like to hear TIM’s side of that story.

Modifié par MisterJB, 05 août 2011 - 02:35 .

[KamikazeShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

People and the control chip…
Am I really the only one who thinks that, wanting to put a control chip on the brain of Shepard, fully trained N7 agent and vowed enemy of Cerberus (you don’t get the choice in ME1 to not destroy the Cerberus bases except by, ofc, not playing the missions), who was about to be given command over the most ambitious and important project Cerberus ever undertook, actually proves nothing, one way or the other? It’s really not a big deal.
If you really want to show Miranda’s most ruthless side, just talk about how she defended the Cerberus attack on the Quarian flotilla by saying “It was nothing personal”. I really would like to hear TIM’s side of that story.

Hopefully in ME3 Miri won't defend Cerberus so much. 

Modifié par KamikazeShepard, 05 août 2011 - 02:32 .

[Melra]

It proves that Miranda uses her head and she's no naive damsel, who expects Shepard to work for them, despite his past history. I mean I would've implanted him with a chip, if I had been TIM.

[jtav]

I still think the chip was immoral and a violation of human dignity. And the stakes are irrelevant if the act is intrinsically immoral, as this is.

[True Zarken]

Hmm where do I sign up? 

[MisterJB]

You just have. Welcome.

Jebel Krong wrote...

hey! there's nothing wrong with dens of mad scientists! you need them for the next doomsday weapon (especially when it inevitably goes catastrphically wrong)!!

So, you need a doomsday weapon in order to stop the previous doomsday weapon. What senses does that make?

[True Zarken]

Really? Huh that was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

So what are we talking about, who wants to be awesome and get me up to speed?

[Silentmode]

True Zarken wrote...

Really? Huh that was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

So what are we talking about, who wants to be awesome and get me up to speed?

Their debating the "control chip" line again and the idea of whether Miranda should take over Cerberus or not in ME3. jtav is coming up with alternate versions of Miranda's romance dialogue. Melrache is distracting us with his awesome avatar's. And I'm lurking. At least that's what I gather.

[Ieldra]

@True Zarken:
Well...you *could* just read the recent pages. But here you are. Topics discussed:

*Miranda and Ashley
*Alternative romance conversations, problems with the existing ones
*Miranda as the Normandy's XO. B*tching about her replacement. Better roles for her in ME3
*Which kind of decisions might drive Miranda away in ME3
*How we will position ourselves in regard to the Alliance and how that may affect Miranda
*The need for a scene where Miranda saves Shepard's ass in ME3.
*Miranda as the "Illusive Woman", taking over Cerberus during/after ME3.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 août 2011 - 04:21 .

[jtav]

Welcome. I'm jtav. OP and resident sourpuss you'll want to strangle by the end of the day.

So, I've been thinking of how I'd introduce Miranda if I were marketing ME3. All I can think of is a close up shot of a Cerberus elite attacking Shepard with this VO:

Shep: I trusted you!
Miranda: I'm sorry Shepard. I have to make a choice.

Elite performs heavy melee attack. Fade to black.

[Ieldra]

That would be utterly unbelievable, jtav. I can't imagine Shepard fallling to anything but a surprise attack. Arrival was bad enough in that. Apart from that, forced knockouts should be minimized.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 05 août 2011 - 04:33 .

[Little Red Corvette]

jtav wrote...

Welcome. I'm jtav. OP and resident sourpuss you'll want to strangle by the end of the day.

So, I've been thinking of how I'd introduce Miranda if I were marketing ME3. All I can think of is a close up shot of a Cerberus elite attacking Shepard with this VO:

Shep: I trusted you!
Miranda: I'm sorry Shepard. I have to make a choice.



Elite performs heavy melee attack. Fade to black.

You dirty dog

[jtav]

Who said anything about a knockout. Just regular gameplay footage of the first encounter with the Cerberus elite with VO and camera angles making us think it's Miranda. Elite performs heavy melee. Black screen with release date superimposed follows.

[MisterJB]

The way you suggested leaves little room for intrerpretation, already ensuring a figth with either Miranda or a clone of her. All we would speculate is why she betrayed Shepard, will she do it if romanced and if it will be possible for her to switch her allegiance again.
I would prefer if it was more ambiguous, leave us in doubt which side she will be figthing for up until the game is released.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I can't imagine Shepard fallling to anything but a surprise attack.

I can imagine. I know that my Shepard wouldn't be able to figth at his best if it was Miranda attacking.

Arrival was bad enough in that.

What? Reaper tec, it does everything.