82210 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
The only project Miri was part of was Project Lazarus, which she lead.

Don't be ridiculous. Miranda has been in Cerberus for 20 years and is one of its most distinguished operatives. She is one of the only six agents who ever met TIM in person.
She was involved in many, many mission before Lazarus. Not like Pragia, of course.

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Miri had nothing to do with the crap jack went through. TIM was.

TIM was only indirectly responsible.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[jtav]

Because Miranda is extremely pro-Cerberus and Jack was lashing out at the most visible symbol of her torment. Neither of them came out of that conversation looking good.

Hmm. I wonder if it miight have been better to change Miranda's loyalty mission to something that shakes/reaffirms her faith in Cerberus. A trusted mentor with no ethics. Makes the loyalty conflict seem more organic.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Was TIM with or against Overlord? I don't remember....

In my perspective, Miri is against Overlord.

[MisterJB]

Just like Pragia, TIM didn't know what was going.
And I think Miranda is against the unecessary cruelty of "Project Overlord". But before those scientists started strapping a mentally disabled kid to a machine out of" A Clokwork Orange" and created an autistic's worst nigthmare, there was absolutely nothing wrong with what they were doing. Especially since we knew so little about the Geth at that point except from the fact that they were hostile.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 août 2011 - 01:43 .

[jtav]

I choose to believe that's a bridge too far for her because I would lose any affection for any squad member who supported it. I'm disabled and depend on my family as caretakers so Overlord's personal.

That said, we have conflicting evidence and both sides can be argued.

[True Zarken]

Tim was for Overlord because the ends justify the means. Even in his e-mail he sends you if you chose the paragon decision he doubts your decision to give David to the Alliance. Correct me if I am wrong but that's what I remember of it.

[Vertigo_1]

True Zarken wrote...

Tim was for Overlord because the ends justify the means. Even in his e-mail he sends you if you chose the paragon decision he doubts your decision to give David to the Alliance. Correct me if I am wrong but that's what I remember of it.

I was just about to post this but yeah he did not totally agree with your (Paragon) decision.

[MisterJB]

Then again, according to Gavin Archer, David will be better treated this time around. And you can always argue that the damage has already been done, that poor kid will never be alrigth again, migth as well make sure something good comes out of it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I hope David survives this war. It would be sad to find out that he was killed. I wonder if we will run in to him in ME3.

[LuxDragon]

I liked the icy in Miranda's voice too. That's why I put it in my fic.
"Not even remotely."
Damn, that's awesome...

MisterJB wrote...

Then again, according to Gavin Archer, David will be better treated this time around. And you can always argue that the damage has already been done, that poor kid will never be alrigth again, migth as well make sure something good comes out of it.

Archer said it, not TIM. Big difference.

Besides, David was a hair away from causing techno Armageddon. I really don't want TIM to have a trump card like that because when push comes to shove, he won't give a damn about David. He'll threaten to destoy everyone and he's not the kind to give into idle threats. Now what happens if he actually controls David and has him target entire planets?

Not gonna happen.

[spirosz]

LuxDragon wrote...

I liked the icy in Miranda's voice too. That's why I put it in my fic.
"Not even remotely."
Damn, that's awesome...

MisterJB wrote...

Then again, according to Gavin Archer, David will be better treated this time around. And you can always argue that the damage has already been done, that poor kid will never be alrigth again, migth as well make sure something good comes out of it.

Archer said it, not TIM. Big difference.

Besides, David was a hair away from causing techno Armageddon. I really don't want TIM to have a trump card like that because when push comes to shove, he won't give a damn about David. He'll threaten to destoy everyone and he's not the kind to give into idle threats. Now what happens if he actually controls David and has him target entire planets?

Not gonna happen.

I agree, I wouldn't want a situation like that to happen or have David causing a techno Armageddon, as you put it. 

[Sepewrath]

MisterJB wrote...
Just like Pragia, TIM didn't know what was going.

I find it hard to believe that things just get by TIM. He has oversight on all Cerberus projects, its seems unlikely that things can just slip under the radar. TIM seems the type to think "Lets just see where this goes" and allows it to go on until it becomes a problem.

[MisterJB]

Entirely possible but, if I remember correctly, the videologs found in Pragia did explain how they kept what they were doing concealed from TIM. We can argue wether or not he knew but we won't get anywhere.
To keep it in topic, from her perspective, Miranda was rigth when she said Cerberus was not to blame for Pragia.

LuxDragon wrote...
Besides, David was a hair away from causing techno Armageddon. I really don't want TIM to have a trump card like that because when push comes to shove, he won't give a damn about David. He'll threaten to destoy everyone and he's not the kind to give into idle threats. Now what happens if he actually controls David and has him target entire planets?

Destroy everyone? That's hardly TIM's style. Every species is connected by the Extranet. You release David into it and you risk humanity too. He could adapt, get loose.
I don't see TIM dooming the human race out of spite.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 août 2011 - 02:57 .

[Sepewrath]

Well Cerberus started Pragia with this intention, whether they wanted to chicken out halfway through or weren't getting the results they wanted, they started the whole thing, so Cerberus is to blame. Miranda should have simply made it clear that SHE wasn't to blame, since she had to be a child when it happened.

[MisterJB]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well Cerberus started Pragia with this intention, whether they wanted to chicken out halfway through or weren't getting the results they wanted, they started the whole thing, so Cerberus is to blame.

The concept behind the Teltin facility is not the best. "Kidnap children and turn them into strong biotics." But we just do not know at which point the scientists there realized they were going too far. Did TIM approve of using pain to increase biotic potential or of sacrificing children?
And the thing is, back then there wasn't a Grissom academy and the Alliance was secretly using Turians to train humans biotics.

Miranda should have simply made it clear that SHE wasn't to blame, since she had to be a child when it happened.

I don't really think it would have mattered. What Jack wanted was for Miranda to "admit that what Cerberus did to her was wrong."
She can admit that Cerberus was not entirely without blame so maybe Jack should have asked more politely. Baby steps, that's all I'm asking from both sides.

[Sepewrath]

Well the "kidnap kids" is probably the part where they started to go wrong lol, the rest is just icing. And I would agree that its unlikely that Jack would have let it go with that, but Miranda was egging her on by trying to absolve to Cerberus of any wrong doing.

[MisterJB]

Sepewrath wrote...

Well the "kidnap kids" is probably the part where they started to go wrong lol, the rest is just icing.

Humanity needed Biotics. Nowadays, there are better options.

And I would agree that its unlikely that Jack would have let it go with that, but Miranda was egging her on by trying to absolve to Cerberus of any wrong doing.

And Jack didn't make a distinction between the different Cells of Cerberus or even seemed to acknowledge the videologs found in Pragia. Maybe she did in a later conversation, I confess don't remember.
And, quite frankly, did Jack really have to go to Miranda's office? That's just looking for a figth.

[LuxDragon]

MisterJB wrote...

Entirely possible but, if I remember correctly, the videologs found in Pragia did explain how they kept what they were doing concealed from TIM. We can argue wether or not he knew but we won't get anywhere.
To keep it in topic, from her perspective, Miranda was rigth when she said Cerberus was not to blame for Pragia.

Cerberus started Pragia. They bought or kidnapped kids. What happened after was main due to the lunatics that worked there, but that doesn't absolve Cerberus for assigning them in the first place. Besides, the reason they went off the rails was to please TIM. As far as I'm concerned, Cerberus is not blameless either.

LuxDragon wrote...
Now what happens if he actually controls David and has him target entire planets?

MisterJB wrote...
Destroy everyone? That's hardly TIM's style. Every species is connected by the Extranet. You release David into it and you risk humanity too. He could adapt, get loose.
I don't see TIM dooming the human race out of spite.

TIM is an extremist. Humanity first at any cost.

Besides, he'll assume he has control, not assume he'll lose it. Same situation with the derelict Reaper, same thougts with the Collector Base. He doesn't assume failure, he assumes sucess.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 06 août 2011 - 03:55 .

[srjepsen]

www.youtube.com/watch
I think she handled herself quite well.

[MisterJB]

Bug Shepard's bathroom.
Fail to notice that one of their projects is about to cause the Armageddon.

Cerberus is weird.

[Arijharn]

jtav wrote...

If by "risk taker" you mean "suborns medical torture" then she isn't.

Hmm, I think she would be okay with actually torturing people to get information from them, but probably not thinking along the lines of: "Lets make human biotics more powerful! Right, how can we do that? Emotional Responses! So, what sort of emotional responses? Anger/Fear? How do we get a biotic to feel anger/fear? Torture? Tea and Biscuits? Annual Tax statements?"

[LuxDragon]

I think she'll try to apply the asari's approach to biotics first since they're known to the most talented in that arena.

Biotics have been around longer than when we discovered it. She would study the sucesses of other races and apply it to humans, changing and adapting as needed. Then, when there were tangible results to please TIM, she'd find ways to do it better than the other races.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Second installment of romance dialogues. I still have the Paramour scene to do, but probably not today. I may also go back and revise the first convo to fix pacing issues.

LOTSB

L: So what are you fighting for? The future of humanity as evidenced by the perfect Ms. Lawson?
S: She’s come a long way from wanting to put a control chip in my skull. I care about her, and I want her to be happy.
L: She was so focused on the mission when I first met her. I was convinced Cerberus was her whole world.
S: Oh, she’s still focused on the mission. Trust me.
L: You wouldn’t care about her if she wasn’t. But I never heard her laugh until you came along. I hope the two of you find some happiness, Shepard.

“Locker”

(Briefing room, after the Collector attack. Shepard stands over the console, head bowed. Sound of door opening. He looks up. Miranda)
S: Forget something?
M: (clearly out of her depth, uncomfortable) I came to see how you were doing.
S: The Collectors attacked my ship and took my crew and I have no idea how I’m going to get them back! How do you think I’m doing?
M: (crosses the room, raises a hand to put it on Shepard’s shoulder, drops it again) I won’t promise you that we can save them. They may already be dead. We all took a risk when we signed on.
S: You’re just a ray of sunshine, you know that?
M: Let me finish. (They face each other. He grasps her hands.) I won’t promise you that we can save them, bit if anyone can, it’s you. And I’ll be right there with you when we go through the relay.
S: Right there with me? I like the sound of that. Come on, we have work to do.

Forgot to answer to this one yesterday. The Liara alternative is about 500% better than what we got in the game! And the second is almost funny. So very....Miranda-like. We'll see how it goes in ME3. I think we'll get something.

[Ieldra]

l DryIce l wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Wondered if people think the Miranda/Jack confrontation will flare up again in ME3?

I'm looking forward to it.

As long as the fight isn't over Shepard, I'm OK with it. Otherwise, just...no!

[Ieldra]

True Zarken wrote...

jtav wrote...

Because Strahovski's delivery is great and I make a point of getting her loyalty back two seconds later.

That doesn't break the romance? I thought siding against Miranda resulted in the romance ending?

It does. But it doesn't matter if you play a femShep. Also there are people here who like Miranda but don't romance her.

Miranda's ice-cold voice is great, yes. But I still can't side with Jack. Nobody's going to pick fights on my ship.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2011 - 05:49 .