82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Arijharn]

LuxDragon wrote...

I think she'll try to apply the asari's approach to biotics first since they're known to the most talented in that arena.

Biotics have been around longer than when we discovered it. She would study the sucesses of other races and apply it to humans, changing and adapting as needed. Then, when there were tangible results to please TIM, she'd find ways to do it better than the other races.

I think the 'asari approach to biotics' is if anything the least applicable to humans in all honesty, if only because Asari are genetically pre-dispositioned towards it (to the point that non biotic asari are very loosely 'discriminated' against -- ie, they can't join the military).

Other than that, I agree, although I think 'changing and adapting' is pretty explicitly a rather broad or strategic overview, whereas studies leading to improvement in biotic capabilities in regards to fear/anger emotional stimulii to be actually pretty specific and can in effect be used to eliminate or encourage further study in the respective field in interest of 'changing and adapting' human capability, so I don't think it's quite the same thing.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...
Well Cerberus started Pragia with this intention, whether they wanted to chicken out halfway through or weren't getting the results they wanted, they started the whole thing, so Cerberus is to blame.

The concept behind the Teltin facility is not the best. "Kidnap children and turn them into strong biotics." But we just do not know at which point the scientists there realized they were going too far. Did TIM approve of using pain to increase biotic potential or of sacrificing children?
And the thing is, back then there wasn't a Grissom academy and the Alliance was secretly using Turians to train humans biotics.

I think this is kept deliberately open to interpretation. On one hand, it's said that TIM likes to keep close oversight, on the other, it's said he only cares about results. But one thing is clear: TIM is ruthless enough to let such things slide, even if he won't initiate them himself. In that sense and as the leader of the organization, he is to blame.  

Miranda should have simply made it clear that SHE wasn't to blame, since she had to be a child when it happened.

I don't really think it would have mattered. What Jack wanted was for Miranda to "admit that what Cerberus did to her was wrong."
She can admit that Cerberus was not entirely without blame so maybe Jack should have asked more politely. Baby steps, that's all I'm asking from both sides.

The problem is that this wasn't a debate. It had elements of a fight to challenge the pecking order. Miranda can't have that. Also, well, she believes Cerberus wasn't responsible, so why should she give in? The only thing I would've expected of her is not to escalate the fight.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Miranda's ice-cold voice is great, yes. But I still can't side with Jack. Nobody's going to pick fights on my ship.

I think Jack is actually the only character that I can say that I actually dislike. Not to say that I'm unsympathetic to her past and all that, but I personally also have a very low tolerance for bull ****, and I think she crosses over that line quite a bit. 

Having said that, while I don't like the character, I never get her or anyone else killed (either on purpose or otherwise) in the SM.

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Miranda's ice-cold voice is great, yes. But I still can't side with Jack. Nobody's going to pick fights on my ship.

I think Jack is actually the only character that I can say that I actually dislike. Not to say that I'm unsympathetic to her past and all that, but I personally also have a very low tolerance for bull ****, and I think she crosses over that line quite a bit. 

Having said that, while I don't like the character, I never get her or anyone else killed (either on purpose or otherwise) in the SM.

While I dislike Jack as a person, I like the clash of personalities she provides between her and my Shepard. It's a breath of fresh air from having to deal with characters that kiss Shepard's ass all the time like Anderscum and most squadmates.

[Arijharn]

Heh, 'Anderscum.'

Anderson definitely went down a few notches in my book when he committed treason to say the least, and it's just as well he's staying on Earth, because I'm not sure I'd like him aboard the Normandy.

[LuxDragon]

Arijharn wrote...

I think the 'asari approach to biotics' is if anything the least applicable to humans in all honesty, if only because Asari are genetically pre-dispositioned towards it (to the point that non biotic asari are very loosely 'discriminated' against -- ie, they can't join the military).

Other than that, I agree, although I think 'changing and adapting' is pretty explicitly a rather broad or strategic overview, whereas studies leading to improvement in biotic capabilities in regards to fear/anger emotional stimulii to be actually pretty specific and can in effect be used to eliminate or encourage further study in the respective field in interest of 'changing and adapting' human capability, so I don't think it's quite the same thing.

If not asari then turian or salarian since their exposure is similar to ours.

Regardless, it's the mental impulses that control electric currents that control biotics. Emotions may or may not have to do with it.

Studying how other species react to biotics and their inherent differences, starting with asari since they're the best and see how they differ from turians and salarians. Knowing how biotics reacts with different species can be applied with humans.

And considering that there's little differece, (Since they brought a turian to teach humans how to use biotics) she'd find several links much faster than Teltin.

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

Heh, 'Anderscum.'

Anderson definitely went down a few notches in my book when he committed treason to say the least, and it's just as well he's staying on Earth, because I'm not sure I'd like him aboard the Normandy.

Even without that, he's just isn't all that remarkable for a character. He's just an archetypical mentor figure that kisses too much ass.

Well, then there's the fact that in my first ME1 playthrough I picked him as the councilor after sacrificing the council because I thought I would end up with a human military dictatorship running the council....... boy, was I ever wrong about that. That has been the only major decision I've retconned for my canon-Shep.

[Lee337]

I side with neither Jack or Miranda and instead tell them both to stop. But in the one playthrough I didn't, I sided with Jack, because I thought they both have points but Jacks got issues and Miranda could have said sorry or something just to keep the peace.

[Arijharn]

LuxDragon wrote...
If not asari then turian or salarian since their exposure is similar to ours.

While that's true, there's still more than just a few differences between us all, not that I think you're trying to say that we are 1:1 the same, which makes I think directly applying their techniques rather dubious.

LuxDragon wrote...
Regardless, it's the mental impulses that control electric currents that control biotics. Emotions may or may not have to do with it.

Right, but I think if we are to find out one way or another, we'd going to have to actually experiment to test the hypothesis when it comes down to it, which is why I don't think Miranda would necessarily do that mainly because I think she applies her own sense of ethics. Now, whether this is 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do is the factor. I don't think testing on children was the right thing to do, but from a purely data acquisition perspective, it's useful in the sense that it either confirms a hypothesis or otherwise.

For all I know, testing on children was 'necessary' given that children are easier to teach etc.

LuxDragon wrote...
And considering that there's little differece, (Since they brought a turian to teach humans how to use biotics) she'd find several links much faster than Teltin.

I don't think it's the same thing, but I get your point. I think there's far to much that's still unknown about Teltin to truly go into debate whether it was essential to do those things or not. I mean, our gut reactions is purely based on the fact that children was involved, and that's pretty much it.

[Arijharn]

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Heh, 'Anderscum.'

Anderson definitely went down a few notches in my book when he committed treason to say the least, and it's just as well he's staying on Earth, because I'm not sure I'd like him aboard the Normandy.

Even without that, he's just isn't all that remarkable for a character. He's just an archetypical mentor figure that kisses too much ass.

Well, then there's the fact that in my first ME1 playthrough I picked him as the councilor after sacrificing the council because I thought I would end up with a human military dictatorship running the council....... boy, was I ever wrong about that. That has been the only major decision I've retconned for my canon-Shep.

I think the issue is that he's chronically under-utilized within the games. Apparently he's much more of his own person outside the games, but then again the same can be true for everyone.

[Sebby]

Arijharn wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Heh, 'Anderscum.'

Anderson definitely went down a few notches in my book when he committed treason to say the least, and it's just as well he's staying on Earth, because I'm not sure I'd like him aboard the Normandy.

Even without that, he's just isn't all that remarkable for a character. He's just an archetypical mentor figure that kisses too much ass.

Well, then there's the fact that in my first ME1 playthrough I picked him as the councilor after sacrificing the council because I thought I would end up with a human military dictatorship running the council....... boy, was I ever wrong about that. That has been the only major decision I've retconned for my canon-Shep.

I think the issue is that he's chronically under-utilized within the games. Apparently he's much more of his own person outside the games, but then again the same can be true for everyone.

Yeah, the only prominent role he played in ME1 was in the beginning and at the very end.  He was far more utliized than Pressly who was criminaly underutilized for someone who's supposed to be Shepard's second in command though.

[Melra]

Lee337 wrote...

I side with neither Jack or Miranda and instead tell them both to stop. But in the one playthrough I didn't, I sided with Jack, because I thought they both have points but Jacks got issues and Miranda could have said sorry or something just to keep the peace.

No point in apologizing to a looney. She'll smash your skull anyhow.  I tried the paragon route few times, but it wasn't satisfying. So I just side with Miri each time, if I bothered to do Jack's LM.

[Arijharn]

Yet another distracting Melranche avatar!

I liked that scene far more than I ever liked the joint Sarah/Carina dress up scenes...

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Melrache wrote...


No point in apologizing to a looney. She'll smash your skull anyhow.  I tried the paragon route few times, but it wasn't satisfying. So I just side with Miri each time, if I bothered to do Jack's LM.

Very good point. I was contantly resolving the fight, BUT, I got tired of being Mr. Nice Guy in the conflict in order to make jack shut up. <_<

So from now on I'm doing what I did in my very first playthrough (and should have continued doing); telling jack to ****** off.

Arijharn wrote...
Yet another distracting Melranche avatar!

Yes, very true! O_O

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 août 2011 - 07:10 .

[Lee337]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Melrache wrote...


No point in apologizing to a looney. She'll smash your skull anyhow.  I tried the paragon route few times, but it wasn't satisfying. So I just side with Miri each time, if I bothered to do Jack's LM.

Very good point. I was contantly resolving the fight, BUT, I got tired of being Mr. Nice Guy in the conflict. So from now on I'm doing what I did in my very first playthrough (and should have continued doing); telling jack to ****** off.

Arijharn wrote...
Yet another distracting Melranche avatar!

Yes, very true O_O

If you tell her she should back down from killing that guy living in her childhood prison she does proving she can be reasonable. Miranda's so stubborn that she doesn't even try to calm her down.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

When it comes to some pathetic loser in a run-down facility, let the guy wallow in his pitiful life.

But when it comes to my LI, hell no! "Unacceptable," in the words of Mordin towards Maelon.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 août 2011 - 07:23 .

[Caihn]

Melrache wrote...

Lee337 wrote...

I side with neither Jack or Miranda and instead tell them both to stop. But in the one playthrough I didn't, I sided with Jack, because I thought they both have points but Jacks got issues and Miranda could have said sorry or something just to keep the peace.

No point in apologizing to a looney. She'll smash your skull anyhow.  I tried the paragon route few times, but it wasn't satisfying. So I just side with Miri each time, if I bothered to do Jack's LM.

this

Miranda is not a babysitter, and Jack should feel lucky that Miranda remained calm in front of her.

And she doesn't have to apologize for something she is not involved in.

Modifié par Yannkee, 06 août 2011 - 07:35 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Hypothetically, if we weren't there on time, would Miri have "smeared the wall" with jack? I believe so.

Not to sound like a douche bag, but I would have loved to see Miri knock jack out for the count.

Mind over utter insanity.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 août 2011 - 07:28 .

[Lee337]

Sheps not a babysitter either yet he helps each squadmate with thier missions, because it helps get them focused on the task. It wouldn't take a lot for her to simply say that although she wasn't part of that operation, it was wrong just to calm her down and get her focused. Instead of her being angry and reckless. I wouldn't want the pissed off Jack watching my back or anyone on the squad. Keeping focused and calming her down would help a lot, so it isn't if shes a baby sitter or whatever. It's doing whats best for the mission and pissing either of them off doesn't help anyone.

[Lee337]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Hypothetically, if we weren't there on time, would Miri have "smeared the wall" with jack? I believe so.

Not to sound like a douche bag, but I would have loved to see Miri knock jack out for the count.

Mind over utter insanity.

Jacks biotics are a lot more powerful than Mirandas.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Not the way I see it. Mind over the looney. Miri is powerful in my book.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 06 août 2011 - 07:43 .

[Lee337]

Jacks not a looney she's just angry and defensive. The reason we picked up Jack is because she is a very powerful biotic who had a lot done to her to strengthen her powers. You saw the devastation she caused in the prison.

[Caihn]

Lee337 wrote...

Sheps not a babysitter either yet he helps each squadmate with thier missions, because it helps get them focused on the task. It wouldn't take a lot for her to simply say that although she wasn't part of that operation, it was wrong just to calm her down and get her focused. Instead of her being angry and reckless. I wouldn't want the pissed off Jack watching my back or anyone on the squad. Keeping focused and calming her down would help a lot, so it isn't if shes a baby sitter or whatever. It's doing whats best for the mission and pissing either of them off doesn't help anyone.

It helps my Shepard and Miranda to feel better.
And there is a difference between helping squadmates, and babysitting.
My only regret is that we don't have the opportunity to leave Purgatory without her. To me, what is best for the mission is to not recruit someone like Jack.

I'm not going further,  don't want to bash a character here.

Modifié par Yannkee, 06 août 2011 - 07:48 .

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...
I think she'll try to apply the asari's approach to biotics first since they're known to the most talented in that arena.

Biotics have been around longer than when we discovered it. She would study the sucesses of other races and apply it to humans, changing and adapting as needed. Then, when there were tangible results to please TIM, she'd find ways to do it better than the other races.

I think the 'asari approach to biotics' is if anything the least applicable to humans in all honesty, if only because Asari are genetically pre-dispositioned towards it (to the point that non biotic asari are very loosely 'discriminated' against -- ie, they can't join the military).

If you want to create human biotics, eventually you'll need to look to the asari as regarding eezo chemistry. They're the only species who naturally assimilate eezo from the environment. As long as humans don't have that, useful biotic ability will always remain something tacked onto a human.  A change of that magnitude won't be possible without the most intricate genetic engineering. It would also fall under the Sudham-Wolcott Genetic Heritage Act of 2161, but I'm sure that wouldn't matter to Miranda should she engage in that kind of research..

What you can do more easily, however, is increase human tolerance to eezo, by, say, taking cell samples from a million humans, testing them for tolerance and identifying the genetic traits that make them tolerant. After that, you can develop a test that will determine if a living human embryo is eezo-tolerant without damaging it, and go for full exposure if tolerance is established. It seems likely that one factor in biotic strength is the size and number of eezo nodules creates in the nervous system. There could be different levels of eezo tolerance required for different biotic strength levels. BTW, you don't need any nonhuman elements in such a procedure. In fact, it wouldn't be useful at all, since nonhuman biochemistry is bound to be different. 

[Ieldra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Hypothetically, if we weren't there on time, would Miri have "smeared the wall" with jack? I believe so.

Definitely not. Miranda is not nearly Jack's equal in raw biotic power. She'd only have a chance in a protracted fight, where Miranda's superior control could win the day in the end - assuming that Jack didn't kill her in her first "charge".

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2011 - 07:51 .