82210 réponses à ce sujet

[enayasoul]

Would Miranda care about being labeled a Cerberus Terrorist? I honestly do not see her as a terrorist. She stop the assassination attempt on the citadel (before ME2) with Jacob. Use technology to bring back a human being. She wants what's best for humanity. In ME3 she stops the atrocities happening at Sanctuary and raiding Cerberus bases, stopping them...


Top of the page:  Miranda contemplating... love this picture!

Modifié par enayasoul, 19 septembre 2012 - 02:06 .

[CrutchCricket]

Ieldra2 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...
well Ieldra2, not attacking your headcanon. but i just don't see like the catalystshepard to be the same shepard, or if shep is brought back through the echo shard, same with cloning, it isn't the same person. Might have the memories and such but what they were is no more. the one we knew is gone. but guess that is what you mean by ascended, as in shep becomes something else or whatever . that is just how i feel on cloning and the control ending.

Just a new AI based on shepard, but not really him or her . Echo shard is a interesting idea , but still it isn't the same to me . idk i have a limited view lol

i get the idea, and is interesting i just personally wouldn't see the person the same way

I like my scenarios exactly because they bring up those questions of identity. If you can still love and still love the same person, if you recall what you did and why, recall how you felt about things decades ago, how can you not be the same person? Or rather, how would you be less different post-ascension than your pre-ascension self was from what you were 20 years ago? You gain different perspectives in a human life and still count yourself identical to the one who didn't have the new perspectives, a long time ago. As I see it, if identity has any meaning beyond the moment and isn't just a delusion (which is a distinct possibility), then it's carried by continuity of memory. Not even of emotion, btw, because emotions can change, but for instance, the memory of how it felt when you loved someone will always be part of you.

If you ask if Shepard will be the same before and after, there can be no 100% correct answer. Yes, and no. There will be continuity of memory and experience, and the new Shepard will be no more - and no less - the same person than you are the same person you were a few years ago. 

Hmm. I describe it somewhat differently.

Basically memory isn't that much more reliable an indicator for continuity than a physical form. Using the teleporter argument, the person emerging at the destination would be identical physically and carry the exact same memories, yet he could not be said to be technically the same person. The same thing would apply to clones. Yet for all intents and purposes a clone (or the replica emerging at the other end of the teleporter) with the same memories and the same physical stability is just as good as the original. I call it strong continuity vs weak continuity and argue that all we can claim is weak continuity even with our past selves. At the end of the day none of us are the exact same person we were a few years ago but we're similar enough to be indistinguishable from that individual. And that's good enough.

So Shepard-->Commander carries the same continuity that each of us do by simply existing. What makes Commander a different entity from Shepard is not what is lost but what is gained (namely the whole ascended Reaper perspective)

[CrutchCricket]

Mr Massakka wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Then they turned into Space N*zis in ME3.

Why are you ignoring that they were already that all the way until ME2?

No, they were not.  It was just retconned that way.

In ME2 (and partly 1) they have been the institution with great results but questionable methods, operating in the shadows. The galaxy would be completely different for Humanity if they would not exist. In a bad way.

In ME3 they suddenly have a whole fleet and army, and attack absolutely everywhere without any reason.

The mistake here is treating Cerberus as an indivisible whole.

They were all Space N*zis before, vs they were not.

Independent cells, people, all very possibly working under a different definition and vision.

What you could debate is whether TIM was always Sith-esque or not and since he was in charge of the overall vision, maybe you'll get further with that.

[katcrave]

http://www.fanfictio...Reconstruction.

Well done, Steelcan! I particularly like Shepherd's responses to the catalyst's insistence that destroying the reapers/synthetics will inevitably lead to the resurrection of the problem. That always bothered me in the game.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

krukow wrote...
Prison for TERRORISTS!!~

"My blood is the same colour as yours and what I do, I do to protect Earth, same as you. You don't like how I do it, that's your prerogative. But there are things going on our there that you know nothing about. Threats to the human race that no one ever hears about. Because we stop them. There's dangers all around us and whether you like us or not, Cerberus may be all that stands between you and the abyss."

Very good. Is that a quote - because I don't recall it - or have you written it?

It's a quote from the third season of "Babylon 5", my favorite Sci-Fi series and, definitively, a source of inspiration for "Mass Effect".

[MisterJB]

lillitheris wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Then they turned into Space N*zis in ME3.

Why are you ignoring that they were already that all the way until ME2?

Because they weren't. Before the arrival of the Reapers, Cerberus did some questionable things but governments do questionables things all the time. Anything Cerberus has done, the STG and Spectres did it a hundred times over. And many in this thread, myself included, feel that what Cerberus did was merely what was necessary to ensure the continued existence and influence of our people in a very hostile galaxy. Sometimes that involved sending rescue ships to crash sites or stopping batarians terrorists, other times sabotaging turians ships with embassadors on board.

Occupation of colonies and mass killings that seem to serve no purpose other than to extablish just how "evil" they are, are traits exclusive to ME3's Cerberus.

Modifié par MisterJB, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:26 .

[Taboo]

I recall a quote from Karpyshyn talking about Cerberus. They were supposed to be monsters in ME1 but that changed when he wrote Ascension. It also explains the Lazarus Cell in ME2.

It also explains the writing in ME3 as he was absent.

Said quote does in fact exist I just can't find it at the moment.

[Babi_Siha]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I recall a quote from Karpyshyn talking about Cerberus. They were supposed to be monsters in ME1 but that changed when he wrote Ascension. It also explains the Lazarus Cell in ME2.

It also explains the writing in ME3 as he was absent.

Said quote does in fact exist I just can't find it at the moment.

I come to the rescue. Here's a snippet from Drew's interview:

He revealed that Cerberus had been "basically a throwaway group of pro-human radicals" used to add spice to some Mass Effect 1 side-missions. "We didn't even have a concept of who was running them," Karpyshyn shared, "and we didn't think they were that important. Obviously, by the time of my Ascension novel and ME2, that had changed radically. The Illusive Man and Cerberus became central to the story and themes - that never would have happened if we had nailed everything down and refused to make changes to the story."

For the whole interview: http://www.eurogamer...-drew-karpyshyn

Modifié par Babi_Siha, 19 septembre 2012 - 03:57 .

[Taboo]

Thank you Babs.

Our conversation lasted until Miss Rachel could see the sunrise! We talked about everything under the sun (forgive the pun).

Needless to say that quote reveals authorial intent and that should be taken into account.

[Lawrence0294]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Thank you Babs.

Our conversation lasted until Miss Rachel could see the sunrise! We talked about everything under the sun (forgive the pun).

Needless to say that quote reveals authorial intent and that should be taken into account.

Shame i couldn't join,

Well, maybe i'll be able to bother you guys another time 

[Taboo]

Well I can talk to you right now for a moment. If you'd like to say hello to me. I can't talk for very long but I'll be here.

[giftfish]

The Quote of the Week is up on the Romance DLC blog, and it's all about Miranda!

Clicky on the link in my sig if interested

[Taboo]

Thank you ma'am we appreciate it!

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 19 septembre 2012 - 04:49 .

[fiendishchicken]

I'm back fella's

Sorry about the skype.

I pretty much collapsed. Didn't get up until 0900.

[Taboo]

We talked until... at least 2:30 AM.

We really got into it once you left. Miss Rachel and I talked about how we saw Miranda and we had the same opinions. Miss Rose would chime in as well. Miss Rachel had not seen the break up scene and she had the same reaction as most people.

I was also told about the history here.

Instant Karma. Isn't it grand?

[Ieldra]

Just of of curiosity: how do "most people" react to the break-up scene?

[Taboo]

Angst Essen Seele Auf!

Konnt ihr mich horen?

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Just of of curiosity: how do "most people" react to the break-up scene?

I think it's repulsive. Shepard comes up with a non-answer to Miranda, and breaks her heart.

It's acted a little too well for me on Yvonne's part. I can't watch it because it's so sad.

[Taboo]

Sorry I've been working on my German.

[fiendishchicken]

Ihr Deutsch ist schrecklich

Votre allemand est terrible

Your German is terrible.

Not sure about the conjugation for the German on my end though. If that's the case, my German is sub-par as well.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Just of of curiosity: how do "most people" react to the break-up scene?

. Dont watch it

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Ihr Deutsch ist schrecklich

Votre allemand est terrible

Your German is terrible.

Not sure about the conjugation for the German on my end though. If that's the case, my German is sub-par as well.

. My German is non existent 

[MisterJB]

I don't see what is repulsive about it. Mantaining a relationship in the middle of a galactic war can't be easy. The fact they haven't seen each other in six months proves it and much can change during that time. I think Shepard has valid reasons for pushing Miranda away and she is, also understandably, hurt by it even if she can comprehend his doubts. The animation and voice acting makes it an heartbreaking scene which means Bioware did a good job with it. I thoroughly enjoy watching it and would even like to see it expanded. Maybe a Paragon interrupt when Shepard notices she is crying?
I, however, am a glutton for punishment who loves tragedy and have watched the break up and romanced death scenes more times than I could admit while keeping my dignity.

The only thing I find repulsive is that she has to die if Shepard breaks up with her.

[Taboo]

wat

[Steelcan]

MisterJB wrote...

I don't see what is repulsive about it. Mantaining a relationship in the middle of a galactic war can't be easy. The fact they haven't seen each other in six months proves it and much can change during that time. I think Shepard has valid reasons for pushing Miranda away and she is, also understandably, hurt by it even if she can comprehend his doubts. The animation and voice acting makes it an heartbreaking scene which means Bioware did a good job with it. I thoroughly enjoy watching it and would even like to see it expanded. Maybe a Paragon interrupt when Shepard notices she is crying?
I, however, am a glutton for punishment who loves tragedy and have watched the break up and romanced death scenes more times than I could admit while keeping my dignity.

The only thing I find repulsive is that she has to die if Shepard breaks up with her.

. There is a way to romance someone else and not have Miranda die