82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Skullheart]

Steelcan wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Playing ME3 makes me hate the alliance.

Yep, i'm with you there.

ME3 makes me hate just about everyone who's not on my ship with the exception of Miranda.

. Why hate the Alliance, just curious

They wasted three years, actually more than 30 years (didn't real investigate the ruins from mars until it  was too late).

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Exactly, not a single sign is visible pre-ME3. Not even a subtile look or movement that could be interpreted that way. I am still missing the prove, one exact scene, that supports your thesis.

The Codex... Yes, but as far as I can remember that entry was also present in ME1 where TIM wasn't even created. 
It's just some random fact that applies to a lot of people in the ME universe. And after all, I agree he was indoctrinated. Just not in a subtile way over the years.

That's why it's an interpretation of events.

Wouldn't you rather have him be Indoctrinated and doing this or simply being someone who's supposed to be protecting humanity but goes off the deep end that way?

That's the choice you face.

[Lawrence0294]

@Mr. Massakka: Well, there are one or two moments where you get suspicious vibes, like when there is his stare:

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Exactly, not a single sign is visible pre-ME3. Not even a subtile look or movement that could be interpreted that way. I am still missing the prove, one exact scene, that supports your thesis.

The Codex... Yes, but as far as I can remember that entry was also present in ME1 where TIM wasn't even created. 
It's just some random fact that applies to a lot of people in the ME universe. And after all, I agree he was indoctrinated. Just not in a subtile way over the years.

That's why it's an interpretation of events.

Wouldn't you rather have him be Indoctrinated and doing this or simply being someone who's supposed to be protecting humanity but goes off the deep end that way?

That's the choice you face.

Yes, and I chose the path the proves lead me to... 

kratos0294 wrote...

@Mr. Massakka: Well, there are one or two moments where you get suspicious vibes, like when there is his stare:

I have a lecturer who makes that look every day 
These scenes are creepy, but evil stares don't make him look indoctrinated in my eyes. It's just some trait that authorities tend to use.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[Steelcan]

Skullheart wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Td1984 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
Playing ME3 makes me hate the alliance.

Yep, i'm with you there.

ME3 makes me hate just about everyone who's not on my ship with the exception of Miranda.

. Why hate the Alliance, just curious

They wasted three years, actually more than 30 years (didn't real investigate the ruins from mars until it  was too late).

. True...... But the 30 years part is Mac Walter's fault

[Sonashi]

ghost9191 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

. If TIM got indoctrinated by the device on Shanxi then why didn't Shepard get indoctrinated by Object Rho?

because it is COMMANDER F*CKING SHEPARD:devil:

Jokes aside gentelman. If I remember correctly, The Illusive Man tried to save his friend who touched reaper device. Did Shepard touch Object Rho?

Imo Cerberus was indoctrinated after studying CB or what was left of it. I hope Omega DLC explains this.

Modifié par Sonashi, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:13 .

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Yes, and I chose the path the proves lead me to... 

We...uh, don't have proof either way. 

[flemm]

hot_heart wrote...

You mean 'a person'. And even so, that kind of attitude is incredibly reductive and unhelpful. Offensive in some ways.

You're right, of course, as far as etiquette is concerned ("as usual," I might add).

In fairness, however, it is true that good/evil bi-polarity in storytelling and characterisation has a sort of gravitational pull, especially in popular entertainment, that can be frustrating at times.

I tend to prefer the ME2 atmosphere, generally speaking. Which isn't to say that good and evil don't exist in ME2, but rather that the judgment rests on the side of the player. It isn't built into the world.

Modifié par flemm, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:18 .

[Stalker]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Yes, and I chose the path the proves lead me to... 

We...uh, don't have proof either way. 

Exactly. When you can't prove something, the conclusion is generally a negative.

[Taboo]

Mr Massakka wrote...
Exactly. When you can't prove something, the conclusion is generally a negative.

I call it likes I sees it.

How about those dossiers...

[krukow]

flemm wrote...

hot_heart wrote...

You mean 'a person'. And even so, that kind of attitude is incredibly reductive and unhelpful. Offensive in some ways.

You're right, of course, as far as etiquette is concerned ("as usual," I might add).

In fairness, however, it is true that good/evil bi-polarity in storytelling and characterisation has a sort of gravitational pull, especially in popular entertainment, that can be frustrating at times.

I tend to prefer the ME2 atmosphere, generally speaking. Which isn't to say that good and evil don't exist in ME2, but rather that the judgment rests on the side of the player. It isn't built into the world.

You just say that because your waifu is a terrorist.

How Michael Westin of you...

[Taboo]

As long as it isn't brought up at the dinner table I think everything should be okay krukow.

[Lawrence0294]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
Exactly. When you can't prove something, the conclusion is generally a negative.

I call it likes I sees it.

How about those dossiers...

DON'T,  YOU FOOL

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

You just say that because your waifu is a terrorist.

How Michael Westin of you...

My waifus are often characters like that. Kira Nerys, the star trek character I mentioned a while back, is a terrorist/resistant fighter, and waifu of mine.

As to Burn Notice, yes, that also

Technically, I guess one is not supposed to have multiple waifus (does "waifu" even have a plural form?). But whatever.

Modifié par flemm, 19 décembre 2013 - 12:17 .

[Taboo]

So we were talking about the dossiers last night and...



REGARDLESS...

[krukow]

flemm wrote...
My waifus are often characters like that. Kira Nerys, the star trek character I mentioned a while back, is a terrorist/resistant fighter, and waifu of mine.

As to Burn Notice, yes, that also

Ezri Dax > Kira Nerys

And those dossiers were awesome Taboo!  Best part of LOTSB!

[flemm]

krukow wrote...

Ezri Dax > Kira Nerys

One of the things I like most about you is your sense of humor

Edit: In fairness, Nicole de Boer is really cute, though

Modifié par flemm, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:34 .

[Taboo]

krukow, dawg it was productive.

[krukow]

Seriously, the dossiers were awesome.

I just wish they had more impact on the game.

Like, I should be able to walk into Miranda's office and see her reading better home and gardening.


EDIT: but seriously, I was a fan of the dossiers, and always just thought it added a hint of tragedy to Miranda's character.  It wasn't until I got here that I considered the ...lesser implications of it.

Modifié par krukow, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:36 .

[Lawrence0294]

[Taboo]

Lesser implications? No...

Depressing.

But eventually hopeful.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Lesser implications? No...

Depressing.

But eventually hopeful.

It could have been worse.  At least you didn't (using metagaming) find out your waifu was a bisexual stalker.

I'm talking about Tali obviously.

And that's a great pic Kratos!

Modifié par krukow, 20 septembre 2012 - 06:41 .

[Lawrence0294]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Lesser implications? No...

Depressing.

But eventually hopeful.

Things will go fine between Shepard and Miranda

[Taboo]

No it made me understand. When I sat down and thought about it it made sense.

All the better that she found something new now.

[hot_heart]

flemm wrote...
You're right, of course, as far as etiquette is concerned ("as usual," I might add).

In fairness, however, it is true that good/evil bi-polarity in storytelling and characterisation has a sort of gravitational pull, especially in popular entertainment, that can be frustrating at times.

I tend to prefer the ME2 atmosphere, generally speaking. Which isn't to say that good and evil don't exist in ME2, but rather that the judgment rests on the side of the player. It isn't built into the world.

Oh, I totally agree. I prefer the ambiguity and complexity it affords. Though, I don't think it's completely written off in ME3, just not thoroughly explored.

I am not exactly in the same camp as Taboo, but I could see a case for long-term indoctrination in TIM. It's not to say that it was ever pronounced at all, even through the entirety of ME2, just that he was a 'sleeper agent' who was activated at a critical moment, or that the indoctrination became more severe when the Reapers showed up in the galaxy. He is incredibly strong-willed and does resist it, even to the end, but there was a tipping point.

But that's just my interpretation. I have no grounds to prove it as much as there is no real way to disprove it. I actually appreciate that complexity and like that it's open to the player to form their own judgement. It is not down to any 'inability' to do something. It is simply how we (choose to) connect the dots.

He could be someone who did questionable things completely of his own accord right up to the fatal decision to implant himself with Reaper tech. I am OK with that reading as well.

On a side note: to me, there's a funny symmetry, because I've just gotten round to watching the BSG reboot (which is OK so far, though a reminder of the little annoyances from US TV, especially with commercial breaks). No spoilers, please.