82210 réponses à ce sujet

[merylisk]

flemm wrote...

merylisk wrote...

Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that they didn't use Miranda's face/body model for Oriana?

Well, they used the same one for Oriana that was used back in ME2, so it wasn't really surprising. Miranda does say at one point that Oriana is her genetic twin, so that makes it a little odd. Not enough for it to really bother me, though.

Well, yeah, I meant in ME2. The first time I played the game, I thought it was weird that they didn't just use Miranda's face for her.

[flemm]

merylisk wrote...
Well, yeah, I meant in ME2. The first time I played the game, I thought it was weird that they didn't just use Miranda's face for her.

Yeah. It's a point that's been brought up before, and it's a legitimate one. Probably Oriana should look more like Miranda. That's based mostly on Miranda's statement that Oriana is her genetic twin.

Modifié par flemm, 21 septembre 2012 - 05:48 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

flemm wrote...
Yeah. It's a point that's been brought up before, and it's a legitimate one. Probably Oriana should look more like Miranda. That's based mostly on Miranda's statement that Oriana is her genetic twin.

I agree that Oriana should look more like Miranda than she does in-game, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should've just used the same face.  Oriana's in her late teens in ME2, and Miri's...35?  I think?  People's appearances change as they age.

[flemm]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I agree that Oriana should look more like Miranda than she does in-game, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should've just used the same face.  Oriana's in her late teens in ME2, and Miri's...35?  I think?  People's appearances change as they age.

Yeah, I think that's a legitimate point as well. Ultimately, because, as you say, there is no reason for them to be identical, the difference in their appearance isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. it would probably make sense for there to be a stronger resemblance than there is, but not to the point that it really strikes me as a problem.

Modifié par flemm, 21 septembre 2012 - 06:57 .

[Dr. Doctor]

flemm wrote...

merylisk wrote...

Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that they didn't use Miranda's face/body model for Oriana?

Well, they used the same one for Oriana that was used back in ME2, so it wasn't really surprising. Miranda does say at one point that Oriana is her genetic twin, so that makes it a little odd. Not enough for it to really bother me, though.

I'd sort of assume that Henry changed the facial features of each successive daughter to avoid suspicion. Either that or it would make telling who's who a little annoying:

Shepard: You two are doing this on purpose.

Miranda and Oriana: No we're not.

Shepard: You both got the same haircut and you're both wearing the same outfit. The only difference is that Oriana's voice sounds a little different.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Shepard: You both got the same haircut and you're both wearing the same outfit. The only difference is that Oriana's voice sounds a little different.

This might be a more meta reason for Oriana looking significantly different from Miri.  I mean, it would be sort of creepy to have two of almost the exact same person (in physical appearance, at least) running around in the same scene.

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

flemm wrote...

merylisk wrote...

Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that they didn't use Miranda's face/body model for Oriana?

Well, they used the same one for Oriana that was used back in ME2, so it wasn't really surprising. Miranda does say at one point that Oriana is her genetic twin, so that makes it a little odd. Not enough for it to really bother me, though.

I'd sort of assume that Henry changed the facial features of each successive daughter to avoid suspicion.

Why would he? It's not as if freezing the fertilized egg for one of a pair of identical twins to grow it later was illegal (that's how it would look for an outside observer). The whole process that made Miranda and Oriana was completely legal back in 2150, and you could even make a good case for it after 2161.  There is no need to avoid "suspicion" because there is nothing suspect about it all.

(May I note this is yet another instance of "X has done bad things so everything he did must have been bad in some way"?)

Either that or it would make telling who's who a little annoying:

Shepard: You two are doing this on purpose.

Miranda and Oriana: No we're not.

Shepard: You both got the same haircut and you're both wearing the same outfit. The only difference is that Oriana's voice sounds a little different.

The same outfit, that would be odd. But they should look more similar.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 septembre 2012 - 07:25 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I'd like to read your "pontification". 

I wasn't being serious, really, about the pontification. But it's a question (the whole good/evil polarity gravitation) that actually goes right to the heart of why people tell stories, and how the way people tell stories has changed over time (speaking very big picture here, for example: the Illiad and other ancient epics versus the modern novel).

I guess a part of it is that one motivation for people telling stories is to reinforce a common morality. Which in turn is important because too much moral diversity is disruptive for a community (appropriate example: BSN and the ME3 endings). Changes are the results of an adaptation process triggered by technology, culture and the ever greater interconnectedness of larger and larger groups of people. 

So, there are a lot of interesting questions to explore surrounding that. Really most of it is off-topic for here.
But I might find a way to slip some of it in if the occasion arises 

Hopefully. It is a topic of great interest to me.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
As for synthesis... people are never going to warm up to it, myself included. I know what you want it to be, but I honestly think there are too many problems to salvage it.

I don't expect them to. I just want a place untainted by the ending wars, where I can hang out without anyone pouring hate on my preferred scenario. The occasional OT reasonable debate is ok.

Regardless I agree that we should focus on Miranda. And now that I have her (and Kasumi) on my squad again, I feel a whole lot better.

Strange how characters influence how we feel about a game. Bioware did something very right with their character design and writing in ME2. I'm going to replay a Miranda-and-Kasumi game at some time as well. They were my core team in my first Insanity game with my femShep Engineer Rani. I have fond memories of that playthrough and the many curses it caused, LOL. Damned Quarian Crash Site. I actually skipped this sidequest, something I never do as a rule.

[Ieldra]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(1) Because it makes her genetic engineering look bad. By suggestion.
(2) Because it makes no f*cking sense given the level of medical technology in the ME universe.
(3) Because it's one step into making her care only about family, removing her ideals about advancing humanity from her.

APOPHENIA! APOPHENIA EVERYWHERE!

Well, no. The thing is, it may have all been completely unintended, but a combination of several elements connecting in a specific way *creates* a pattern regardless of intention. That's why works of art have a life of their own after being published.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 septembre 2012 - 09:12 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

merylisk wrote...

Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that they didn't use Miranda's face/body model for Oriana? Oriana is essentially a clone of Miranda, so they should look as alike as identical twins (except Ori would be younger). It was really jarring when Oriana suddenly shows up and has a generic face that looks like nothing like Miranda's.

I'm probably just nitpicking, though.

You have to think about age difference. Ori IS Miri's genetic twin, and they are identical, in a sense. Ori was 19 in ME2. Ori's appearance (facial) was most likely how Miri looked when she was 19. Ori will look exactly like Miri when she reaches 35/36.

Ori was born years later. That is why she looks different. She is younger. Ori was most likely how Miri looked when she was 19

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 21 septembre 2012 - 10:55 .

[Terrorize69]

[Ieldra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

merylisk wrote...

Am I the only one who was bothered by the fact that they didn't use Miranda's face/body model for Oriana? Oriana is essentially a clone of Miranda, so they should look as alike as identical twins (except Ori would be younger). It was really jarring when Oriana suddenly shows up and has a generic face that looks like nothing like Miranda's.

I'm probably just nitpicking, though.

You have to think about age difference. Ori IS Miri's genetic twin, and they are identical, in a sense. Ori was 19 in ME2. Ori's appearance (facial) was most likely how Miri looked when she was 19. Ori will look exactly like Miri when she reaches 35/36.

Ori was born years later. That is why she looks different. She is younger. Ori was most likely how Miri looked when she was 19

As a rule, faces don't change so drastically between 19 and 35. There should be a noticeable resemblance, but there is none at all. It's not a fatal flaw, but it is somewhat jarring.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As a rule, faces don't change so drastically between 19 and 35. There should be a noticeable resemblance, but there is none at all. It's not a fatal flaw, but it is somewhat jarring.

Either that or it would make telling who's who a little annoying:

Shepard: You two are doing this on purpose.

Miranda and Oriana: No we're not.

Shepard: You both got the same haircut and you're both wearing the same outfit. The only difference is that Oriana's voice sounds a little different.

Yep there should be a much closer resembalnce ideally. Even then though if Shep claims to have trouble differentiating between the 19 year old and the 35 year old he/she clearly is in need of glasses.

Modifié par wright1978, 21 septembre 2012 - 11:24 .

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, no. The thing is, it may have all been completely unintended, but a combination of several elements connecting in a specific way *creates* a pattern regardless of intention. That's why works of art have a life of their own after being published.  

No it's really bad here. Not everyone sees it as a grand plot. Some of us have been expecting this.

You're playing a mainstream game. I already talked to you about this. The character development is that she tempers out and wants to work AND have a family.

The character at the beginning of ME2 will never take precedence again. That's a one sided character.

If you can't accept that I don't know what to tell you.

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Well, no. The thing is, it may have all been completely unintended, but a combination of several elements connecting in a specific way *creates* a pattern regardless of intention. That's why works of art have a life of their own after being published.  

No it's really bad here. Not everyone sees it as a grand plot. Some of us have been expecting this.

You're playing a mainstream game. I already talked to you about this. The character development is that she tempers out and wants to work AND have a family.

The character at the beginning of ME2 will never take precedence again. That's a one sided character.

If you can't accept that I don't know what to tell you.

She'll still have a lot of the coldness towards those that aren't close to her. Remember, that list is very short. Just Shepard and Oriana really.

She has changed a lot though. Liara notices, Kasumi notices. Shepard has changed Miranda for the better just as she has tempered a lot of his more cynical dispositions. 

I don't see why Ieldra thinks being a more positive person is a bad thing.

[Ieldra]

fiendishchicken wrote...
I don't see why Ieldra thinks being a more positive person is a bad thing.

You know, I'm beginning to resent being misrepresented like that. My problem is that ME3 Miranda is ONE-SIDED!!!!!!! While I'm looking for balance. I want her to care about the big picture, to be about more things than just rescuing her sister. I want the Miranda from the ME2 romance back, not the one from the start of the game.

Damn it!

Also, MIranda in ME2 was positive. She was just positive about more things than family and romance. I don't want her priorities to be restricted to family and romance. Clear now?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:15 .

[Stalker]

Ieldra2 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
I don't see why Ieldra thinks being a more positive person is a bad thing.

You know, I'm beginning to resent being misrepresented like that. My problem is that ME3 Miranda is ONE-SIDED!!!!!!! While I'm looking for balance. I want her to care about the big picture, to be about more things than just rescuing her sister. I want the Miranda from the ME2 romance back, not the one from the start of the game.

Damn it! 

If that calms you down... I can understand you :innocent:

[Terrorize69]

Now I see what the cause of the fighting was the other day between Kasumi fans and Mimancers..

Modifié par Terrorize69, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:36 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
I don't see why Ieldra thinks being a more positive person is a bad thing.

You know, I'm beginning to resent being misrepresented like that. My problem is that ME3 Miranda is ONE-SIDED!!!!!!! While I'm looking for balance. I want her to care about the big picture, to be about more things than just rescuing her sister. I want the Miranda from the ME2 romance back, not the one from the start of the game.

Damn it!

Also, MIranda in ME2 was positive. She was just positive about more things than family and romance. I don't want her priorities to be restricted to family and romance. Clear now?

Agree completely with you Ieldra2. Her one-sided portrayal in ME3 was horrid. It's not her caring about Oriana/or wantign a child its the lack of balance in portraying her professional side. Their last minute scrabbling around to add in Cerberus renegades provided an element of salvage, allowing me to believe Miranda has actually been actively involved in doing something about Cerberus from moment one.

Modifié par wright1978, 21 septembre 2012 - 03:37 .

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
You know, I'm beginning to resent being misrepresented like that.

Tell me about it.

[Taboo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

You know, I'm beginning to resent being misrepresented like that. My problem is that ME3 Miranda is ONE-SIDED!!!!!!! While I'm looking for balance. I want her to care about the big picture, to be about more things than just rescuing her sister. I want the Miranda from the ME2 romance back, not the one from the start of the game.

Damn it!

Also, MIranda in ME2 was positive. She was just positive about more things than family and romance. I don't want her priorities to be restricted to family and romance. Clear now?

Your rustling must be more severe.

Of course it's one sided but the hostility that you show towards the side that is shown looks very strange to a lot of people. It will not disappear. Ever. No amount of DLC will "fix" some of the issues you have with her now.

[Lawrence0294]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Now I see what the cause of the fighting was the other day between Kasumi fans and Mimancers..

There were fightings between Kasumi fans and mirimancers ?