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[jtav]

I always assumed she was simply bad with people and in denial about it, depending on sheer technical competence to earn respect. That's why Shep's charisma eats at her so much. I wouldn't "fix" that. I'd show her succeeding in things she is good at rather than showing her failures exclusively.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I always assumed she was simply bad with people and in denial about it, depending on sheer technical competence to earn respect. That's why Shep's charisma eats at her so much. I wouldn't "fix" that. I'd show her succeeding in things she is good at rather than showing her failures exclusively.

And I've always thought she can't be that bad with people considering that she's been a "superspy" for 20 years. Dealing with people is a big part of such a job - see the "extensive contact network" she has maintained. As I said elsewhere, I don't mind Niket because that was personal, and underestimating Shepard is very easy given his behaviour. It's the arbitrary failures that shouldn't have been there that rankle. 

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
I always considered that Miranda being proved wrong about Niket and TIM was just a way of showying that, just as Shepard puts it; "despite all your upgrades, you're human just like the rest of us". Its no different from trying to convince Mordin to cure the Genophage. Not so much ego-feeding as character development.

That's just it. Miranda is exactly NOT supposed to be like everyone else. Of course not perfect, but as a rule, more competent than most people with the same experience and education would be in her place. But you're right in this: the Niket situation was OK for me - I wouldn't have said anything had that been the only occurrence.

And...because of what I said above, I  prefer the Renegade response at the elevator conversation after the battle with Enyala: "Everyone makes mistakes. I'm guessing that's one you won't repeat." I'm only now beginning to realize just how much I prefer the Renegade path through most of her conversations.
 

[Sebby]

Ieldra2 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I always considered that Miranda being proved wrong about Niket and TIM was just a way of showying that, just as Shepard puts it; "despite all your upgrades, you're human just like the rest of us". Its no different from trying to convince Mordin to cure the Genophage. Not so much ego-feeding as character development.

That's just it. Miranda is exactly NOT supposed to be like everyone else. Of course not perfect, but as a rule, more competent than most people with the same experience and education would be in her place. But you're right in this: the Niket situation was OK for me - I wouldn't have said anything had that been the only occurrence.

And...because of what I said above, I  prefer the Renegade response at the elevator conversation after the battle with Enyala: "Everyone makes mistakes. I'm guessing that's one you won't repeat." I'm only now beginning to realize just how much I prefer the Renegade path through most of her conversations.
 

The renegade responses were also better for the Ashley romance too. Paragon Shepard ended up looking like such a socially inept clown that Ashley even laughs in his face. LOL

[A Puzzled Mind]

Hi, it's been awhile since I;ve kept up with any of these discussions.

But has the Miranda fertility issue been resolved. Is she or isn't she incapable of having children.

[Mr Plow]

A Puzzled Mind wrote...

Hi, it's been awhile since I;ve kept up with any of these discussions.

But has the Miranda fertility issue been resolved. Is she or isn't she incapable of having children.

uh-oh...
 
*backs away slowly from this time bomb topic*


Well OK it is unresolved


Nothing that a healthy dose of SHEP POWER won't fix



(sorry guys and gals)

[Sepewrath]

Mr Plow, that Shepard's name, that name again is Mr. Plow.

[Mr Plow]

Sepewrath wrote...

Mr Plow, that Shepard's name, that name again is Mr. Plow.

Modifié par Mr Plow, 07 août 2011 - 10:40 .

[Arijharn]

Melrache wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Reminds me of Quake 4, actually
Something I don't want to see again in ME3

Oh yeah... 

WARNING ITS BIT GOREISH FOR KIDS
 The Change was less... subtle though..

Funny story, I knew about the change beforehand, and I was looking 'forward' to it because I thought I could become some kickass Gladiator or something, but that happened and I was... 'that's it? I get stroggified (Raven's word for it btw) and they just essentially turn me into a human. Again?!"

I was very disappointed.

[goofyomnivore]

I always assumed she was simply bad with people and in denial about it, depending on sheer technical competence to earn respect.

I wouldn't say she is bad with people, but her charisma is certainly supported by her competence and beauty greatly when handling/working with people.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

@ Mr Plow and pic   ...?

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 07 août 2011 - 11:53 .

[drwells123]

strive wrote...

I wouldn't say she is bad with people, but her charisma is certainly supported by her competence and beauty greatly when handling/working with people.

I assume she's "bad with people" to the extent that she has little patience for people aren't as smart/driven as she is. (Of course, she doesn't have to worry about running into many lazy morons on the Normandy.) I also assume she loathes the idea of using her looks to persuade people or get ahead - both because it could seem like weakness and because it's relying on something given to her by her father. Her brain is of course also given to her by her father, but she's the one who has to build on it.

Yannkee that video was fantastic and of professional quality IMO. You put the pieces together in a way that felt coherent and consistent, including voiceovers (with added effects in some places, it sounds like), use of flycam, and synchronization of action with background music. I liked seeing her pick up and explode the mech near the beginning and the montage near the end with each of them giving the other a hand up. I hope someone at BioWare takes notice.

[A Puzzled Mind]

Mr Plow wrote...

A Puzzled Mind wrote...

Hi, it's been awhile since I;ve kept up with any of these discussions.

But has the Miranda fertility issue been resolved. Is she or isn't she incapable of having children.

uh-oh...
 
*backs away slowly from this time bomb topic*


Well OK it is unresolved





Nothing that a healthy dose of SHEP POWER won't fix



(sorry guys and gals)

When I read that portion of the dossier, I noticed how weirdly written the segment about the infertility.

The way it was written, it seemed that the medical exam was relying primarily on a hypothetical conclusion based on her genetics. Even then, this fertility issue seems odd, in that procedure-wise, this isn't realistic of how doctors and their patients would deal with this.

[Shotokanguy]

You know, you guys spend a lot of time discussing Miranda's character moments in ME2, and the perceived missteps the writers took...

But I think these problems we have with her development are simply a consequence of not getting enough time with her. Every character in ME2 suffers from that "5 conversations and you're done with them" feeling.

If we could have had a new conversation with Miranda after every mission, we'd probably have fewer problems with the dialogue, her character arc...I just hope I get plenty of quality time with her in ME3.

[Arijharn]

That's true too.

[Sebby]

Shotokanguy wrote...

You know, you guys spend a lot of time discussing Miranda's character moments in ME2, and the perceived missteps the writers took...

But I think these problems we have with her development are simply a consequence of not getting enough time with her. Every character in ME2 suffers from that "5 conversations and you're done with them" feeling.

If we could have had a new conversation with Miranda after every mission, we'd probably have fewer problems with the dialogue, her character arc...I just hope I get plenty of quality time with her in ME3.

Yeah, I felt like I was missing something in between the "Shepard I'm not looking for a friend concentrate on the mission" pre-FP and the sweet friendly tone of "aah I guess you earned it" on the Normandy.

[Sepewrath]

Its also unfeasible, even if they relegated it to only main missions(includes recruitment and loyalty) that is a ton of conversations and eventually they would start to become about nothing. I think Miranda have fine character development, the only thing I would have changed from her is to see that arrogance more on display.

She should have put herself above Shepard and then grew to respect them for their imperfections and how they overcome them, instead of automatically putting herself below Shepard. Her lack of self esteem in comparison to Shepard, when she is suppose to be perfect is not really believable.

[MisterJB]

It is believable. The most natural thing for a person whose abilities are all due to scientifics experiments that were performed on her before she could even talk is to experience self-worth and self-esteem issues, especially taking into account how Mr. Lawson trated Miranda as a object and not a person.

"The only things I can take credit for are my mistakes." Simple as that. Hope she will overcome this in ME3.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 août 2011 - 02:10 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri is NOT a tool. But her father treated her like one. I would like to find him and end him myself.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 08 août 2011 - 02:29 .

[Little Red Corvette]

Seboist wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

You know, you guys spend a lot of time discussing Miranda's character moments in ME2, and the perceived missteps the writers took...

But I think these problems we have with her development are simply a consequence of not getting enough time with her. Every character in ME2 suffers from that "5 conversations and you're done with them" feeling.

If we could have had a new conversation with Miranda after every mission, we'd probably have fewer problems with the dialogue, her character arc...I just hope I get plenty of quality time with her in ME3.

Yeah, I felt like I was missing something in between the "Shepard I'm not looking for a friend concentrate on the mission" pre-FP and the sweet friendly tone of "aah I guess you earned it" on the Normandy.

I agree completely because Shepard goes on one mission with her and then she's all like "Sure I'll tell you my life story"

[Sebby]

Little Red Corvette wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

You know, you guys spend a lot of time discussing Miranda's character moments in ME2, and the perceived missteps the writers took...

But I think these problems we have with her development are simply a consequence of not getting enough time with her. Every character in ME2 suffers from that "5 conversations and you're done with them" feeling.

If we could have had a new conversation with Miranda after every mission, we'd probably have fewer problems with the dialogue, her character arc...I just hope I get plenty of quality time with her in ME3.

Yeah, I felt like I was missing something in between the "Shepard I'm not looking for a friend concentrate on the mission" pre-FP and the sweet friendly tone of "aah I guess you earned it" on the Normandy.

I agree completely because Shepard goes on one mission with her and then she's all like "Sure I'll tell you my life story"

It also weakens Jacob's character who's supposed to be the friendly type who Shepard can relate to for being Alliance turned Cerberus.

[Sepewrath]

MisterJB wrote...

It is believable. The most natural thing for a person whose abilities are all due to scientifics experiments that were performed on her before she could even talk is to experience self-worth and self-esteem issues, especially taking into account how Mr. Lawson trated Miranda as a object and not a person.

"The only things I can take credit for are my mistakes." Simple as that. Hope she will overcome this in ME3.

Captain America doesn't have self esteem issues and he is a product of science. I'm not saying that a person like that couldn't have these issues, If she's like this and has these problems, fine, but I'm saying their expressed only in comparison to Shepard, that's unbelievable. She thinks she's better than everything on the galaxy map, except Shepard. It comes off as nothing but ego stroke for the player, because you know how people hate anyone who doesn't worship Shepard. The perfect woman would be wasted if everyone hates her. If she wants to obsses about her imperfections fine, but I hope in ME3 there is a little less of her putting Shepard on a pedestal.

[jtav]

Cap didn't have an abusive father who treated him like a prize horse. Miranda is a pretty much textbook case of an emotional abuse survivor.

[Sebby]

We haven't heard her father's side of the story yet. We just have Miranda's word so far.

[MisterJB]

Sepewrath wrote...
She thinks she's better than everything on the galaxy map, except Shepard. It comes off as nothing but ego stroke for the player, because you know how people hate anyone who doesn't worship Shepard. I hope in ME3 there is a little less of her putting Shepard on a pedestal.

We agree on this much, at least.