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[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I've seen no indication of that. The only difference now is that the people who once had the majority opinion are now the minority.

I've seen certain posts and talked with people here. Old timers. The bullies are now the bullied.

You don't say?

Care to provide examples?

I believe that the thread is entitled "Warming up to Miranda." You might even Google it. It should turn up in the results. It's locked now obviously.

You might also talk to some of older users here.

I'm not singling anyone out but I really don't see a difference from this thread to that one.

Difference of opinion? Shut them down in the thread. It hasn't changed.

Only now, those users have had the tables turned on them. It's a much different place now.

It used to be a place where really one perspective of Miranda was endorsed, and if you didn't agree with it, you didn't understand the character correctly. I've been lurking this thread since about January.

*edit* nada for a Miranda pic atm, so here's a pic of Yvonne from Comic-Con.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 27 septembre 2012 - 03:55 .

[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I believe that the thread is entitled "Warming up to Miranda." You might even Google it. It should turn up in the results. It's locked now obviously.

You might also talk to some of older users here.

I'm not singling anyone out but I really don't see a difference from this thread to that one.

Difference of opinion? Shut them down in the thread. It hasn't changed.

The 2nd Miranda support threat has 1752 pages. I trust you don't expect me to read them all.

But if you have, or if you've read enough, please point out specific instances of bullying.

And please, don't mistake superior arguments for bullying. I think I know what you're trying to do and I'm not a fan.

[Steelcan]

I jumped in without a problem.

[CrutchCricket]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Only now, those users have had the tables turned on them. It's a much different place now.

It used to be a place where really one perspective of Miranda was endorsed, and if you didn't agree with it, you didn't understand the character correctly. I've been lurking this thread since about January.

Have they now?

Care to point out when and where?

Threads in general usually attract like-minded individuals for (hopefully) intelligent discussion on a common topic. The emergence of one overall perspective that most adhere to is no surprise.

If anyone has a different perspective, they're welcome to put it forward. Discussion thus arises. If at the end of the day that person has not adequately argued for their side, does it mean they've been "pushed out"?

[fiendishchicken]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I believe that the thread is entitled "Warming up to Miranda." You might even Google it. It should turn up in the results. It's locked now obviously.

You might also talk to some of older users here.

I'm not singling anyone out but I really don't see a difference from this thread to that one.

Difference of opinion? Shut them down in the thread. It hasn't changed.

The 2nd Miranda support threat has 1752 pages. I trust you don't expect me to read them all.

But if you have, or if you've read enough, please point out specific instances of bullying.

And please, don't mistake superior arguments for bullying. I think I know what you're trying to do and I'm not a fan.

I wouldn't call it bullying, but I wouldn't call it a superior argument either. It was more of a group of people who all mostly had the same opinion of Miranda being, to be blunt, a cold hearted **** who only loves her job. 

They believe(d) that her being a human being is not in line with what they believe(d) her character ought to be.

[Taboo]

CrutchCricket wrote...

The 2nd Miranda support threat has 1752 pages. I trust you don't expect me to read them all.

But if you have, or if you've read enough, please point out specific instances of bullying.

And please, don't mistake superior arguments for bullying. I think I know what you're trying to do and I'm not a fan.

Oh I do expect you to read them. There are some particular highlights especially when LotSB was released. Some good ones involved people getting frustrated with Miranda because of the infertility. Refusing to be involved. Personal attacks ensue.

My personal favorites are the ones that believe the character is giving up something in the dossiers. Some people don't care, myself included. There is an insistence of a plot when there is none. Disagree? Prepare to be attacked for it.

And there are some LOVELY talks about a drive for wanting children.

The "No True Scotsman" argument is pretty amusing. We're all fans. Only certain people take everything that they disagree with as personal slights.

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

The 2nd Miranda support threat has 1752 pages. I trust you don't expect me to read them all.

But if you have, or if you've read enough, please point out specific instances of bullying.

And please, don't mistake superior arguments for bullying. I think I know what you're trying to do and I'm not a fan.

Oh I do expect you to read them. There are some particular highlights especially when LotSB was released. Some good ones involved people getting frustrated with Miranda because of the infertility. Refusing to be involved. Personal attacks ensue.

My personal favorites are the ones that believe the character is giving up something in the dossiers. Some people don't care, myself included. There is an insistence of a plot when there is none. Disagree? Prepare to be attacked for it.

And there are some LOVELY talks about a drive for wanting children.

The "No True Scotsman" argument is pretty amusing. We're all fans. Only certain people take everything that they disagree with as personal slights.

Yeah. I think they went overboard with Miranda cancelling her scientific journal subscriptions, but hey, I love that my woman is getting into the afterdark fashion scene for our romps in the sack.

[katcrave]

"Superior argument" is difficult to quantify when dealing with opinion. If one side were clearly correct, there would be no debate (or hurt feelings for that matter). Interpretation, my friends. Interpretation.

Also, if anyone thinks its bad here, I suggest they check out a political forum. This thread is sunshine and bunny **** by comparison.

[Taboo]

You can't reach a consensus because it isn't possible.

Personal wants, world views, interpretation of material all play into this. That's why certain aspects of the character are debated in such a capacity.

If you can't handle that, then you shouldn't be here. It's blunt but it needs to be said. You go big or you go home.

[Babi_Siha]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I believe that the thread is entitled "Warming up to Miranda." You might even Google it. It should turn up in the results. It's locked now obviously.

You might also talk to some of older users here.

I'm not singling anyone out but I really don't see a difference from this thread to that one.

Difference of opinion? Shut them down in the thread. It hasn't changed.

The 2nd Miranda support threat has 1752 pages. I trust you don't expect me to read them all.

But if you have, or if you've read enough, please point out specific instances of bullying.

And please, don't mistake superior arguments for bullying. I think I know what you're trying to do and I'm not a fan.

I used to check the ME2 forum from time to time, Miranda's specifically, and there were some members that weren't very welcoming, those members wanted Miranda to be a certain way and if someone thought differently wouldn't be welcome on the thread.

[fiendishchicken]

katcrave wrote...

"Superior argument" is difficult to quantify when dealing with opinion. If one side were clearly correct, there would be no debate (or hurt feelings for that matter). Interpretation, my friends. Interpretation.

Also, if anyone thinks its bad here, I suggest they check out a political forum. This thread is sunshine and bunny **** by comparison.

Or any military commander's office. I have to brief Colonels. Intimidating.

You walk into the CO's office with an idea, and you walk out with the CO's idea.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...

katcrave wrote...

"Superior argument" is difficult to quantify when dealing with opinion. If one side were clearly correct, there would be no debate (or hurt feelings for that matter). Interpretation, my friends. Interpretation.

Also, if anyone thinks its bad here, I suggest they check out a political forum. This thread is sunshine and bunny **** by comparison.

Or any military commander's office. I have to brief Colonels. Intimidating.

You walk into the CO's office with an idea, and you walk out with the CO's idea.

. Sounds like fun

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

katcrave wrote...

"Superior argument" is difficult to quantify when dealing with opinion. If one side were clearly correct, there would be no debate (or hurt feelings for that matter). Interpretation, my friends. Interpretation.

Also, if anyone thinks its bad here, I suggest they check out a political forum. This thread is sunshine and bunny **** by comparison.

Or any military commander's office. I have to brief Colonels. Intimidating.

You walk into the CO's office with an idea, and you walk out with the CO's idea.

. Sounds like fun

If you're the Colonel maybe. You want to really be put on the spot, you're in an office briefing 12 or more Senior Officers, giving them the intelligence that you and your team assembled and collected and disseminating it through the chain of command. And if anything goes wrong, it's your ass since you're the one having to maintain a positive quality inspection for the data you're disseminating. 

You give the Warning Order, the TacPlan, the OPlan, and then hope the hours and hours of war gaming analysis pay off. Otherwise you have some jackwagon Colonel with a nuclear erection yelling to everyone in earshot about who let this dweeb graduate college and pollute his Army, and then say that it must be ROTC since the academy would never produce such ****ty Officers. 

Luckily, that hasn't happened to me yet, but I've heard the horror stories about young Lieutenants who gave faulty intel during a briefing (not even their fault really) because their Senior NCO doesn't want to actually do work blames the LT for his foul up, and less than a month later they get branched off to some latrine post never to be seen again...

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:34 .

[Aliqaiser]

I was thinking, What if Miranda actually reacted to your custom Shepard differently than the normal Shepard? What if she actually had a choice to deny your proposal, if your Shepard was not up to her standards(from the looks), what would you have done if you got rejected, by her?

[krukow]

Aliqaiser wrote...

I was thinking, What if Miranda actually reacted to your custom Shepard differently than the normal Shepard? What if she actually had a choice to deny your proposal, if your Shepard was not up to her standards(from the looks), what would you have done if you got rejected, by her?

The best part about this, is it couldn't happen until after you rescue her sister, so you don't even have that to get even with her anymore.  I guess you could send her into the vent?

Of course, my shep has nothing but professional respect for Ms. Lawson, so your question is silly...

[Taboo]

I believe Nihlus' "Commander Casanova" line fits best here. He can romance anyone because he's the main character.

I use Sheploo because I think he looks the best. Others might not agree but still.

[Steelcan]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Sounds like fun

If you're the Colonel maybe. You want to really be put on the spot, you're in an office briefing 12 or more Senior Officers, giving them the intelligence that you and your team assembled and collected and disseminating it through the chain of command. And if anything goes wrong, it's your ass since you're the one having to maintain a positive quality inspection for the data you're disseminating. 
You give the Warning Order, the TacPlan, the OPlan, and then hope the hours and hours of war gaming analysis pay off. Otherwise you have some jackwagon Colonel with a nuclear erection yelling to everyone in earshot about who let this dweeb graduate college and pollute his Army, and then say that it must be ROTC since the academy would never produce such ****ty Officers. 
Luckily, that hasn't happened to me yet, but I've heard the horror stories about young Lieutenants who gave faulty intel during a briefing (not even their fault really) because their Senior NCO doesn't want to actually do work blames the LT for his foul up, and less than a month later they get branched off to some latrine post never to be seen again...

. Army life seems like fun.  

[CrutchCricket]

katcrave wrote...

"Superior argument" is difficult to quantify when dealing with opinion. If one side were clearly correct, there would be no debate (or hurt feelings for that matter). Interpretation, my friends. Interpretation.

Also, if anyone thinks its bad here, I suggest they check out a political forum. This thread is sunshine and bunny **** by comparison.

Not particularly.

Opinion: I think x.

Why?

Because y and z (where y and z are either assertions or arguments. If they're the former they'd presumably be either arguments or self-evident facts)

Discussion now begins on whether y and z are true and/or if they have any bearing on x. Interpretation also comes into play.

End result: Based on the discussion, parties involved may be swayed to agree about x or may not. If it's a situation where x goes against the "popular opinion", if the "majority" haven't been swayed, it certainly doesn't mean that the proponent of x has been marginalized or pushed aside.

No matter how how heated the discussion gets, as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks, the proponent of x is not bullied or "pushed out".

Taboo, I don't have time to read 1700 pages of an old thread. If you say personal attacks were made, I'll take your word for it. Anytime things get personal it stops being a discussion and starts being a fight. That's no good.

But in the time I've been here, in this thread, that has rarely if ever happened during the course of our discussions. Begrudging what you percieve as the public opinion 700 pages ago does not constitute evidence of this thread "always" being elitist and bullying towards members who "do not conform" to the status quo.

Anyway this is all moot as in the case of MEFan, discussion does not even come into it. I mean no offence to MEFan but I have never seen him actively engage in the discussions we're talking about. He's often stated opinions on his own that people have responded to but what keeps him here isn't discussing Miranda, but rather just "supporting" her, repeatedly affirming that he likes her, that she's his ONE LI etc. Admittedly it gets repetitive and a little annoying and some people have snapped at him in the past. Even I have "trolled" him once or twice.

But never in the time that I've been here has he been so hounded as in the past 300 pages or so. It's become a meme among some of the newer members here to be cruel and snap at him for the tiniest thing. This was never the case before and if you have the time to go through thousands of pages of old posts I defy you (or anyone else) to bring one specific example where he or anyone else has been so picked on for having different opinions. I won't single out the people I think are propagating this but I think I can safely say anything before the last 600 pages of so is pretty clean.

[Steelcan]

krukow wrote...

Aliqaiser wrote...

I was thinking, What if Miranda actually reacted to your custom Shepard differently than the normal Shepard? What if she actually had a choice to deny your proposal, if your Shepard was not up to her standards(from the looks), what would you have done if you got rejected, by her?

The best part about this, is it couldn't happen until after you rescue her sister, so you don't even have that to get even with her anymore.  I guess you could send her into the vent?

Of course, my shep has nothing but professional respect for Ms. Lawson, so your question is silly...

. I don't about your custom Shepards but mine looks pretty nice, he is a little pale and has a slightly heavier brow ridge but all in all not bad.

[Taboo]

Of course Sheploo has some pretty bad facial animations. I can't imagine any woman taking kindly to that glare he gives during one of the romance conversations.

He makes a similar one when talking to Garrus about "reach and flexibility".

Eugh.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Of course Sheploo has some pretty bad facial animations. I can't imagine any woman taking kindly to that glare he gives during one of the romance conversations.

He makes a similar one when talking to Garrus about "reach and flexibility".

Eugh.

. He looks too generic for me.

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
Sounds like fun

If you're the Colonel maybe. You want to really be put on the spot, you're in an office briefing 12 or more Senior Officers, giving them the intelligence that you and your team assembled and collected and disseminating it through the chain of command. And if anything goes wrong, it's your ass since you're the one having to maintain a positive quality inspection for the data you're disseminating. 
You give the Warning Order, the TacPlan, the OPlan, and then hope the hours and hours of war gaming analysis pay off. Otherwise you have some jackwagon Colonel with a nuclear erection yelling to everyone in earshot about who let this dweeb graduate college and pollute his Army, and then say that it must be ROTC since the academy would never produce such ****ty Officers. 
Luckily, that hasn't happened to me yet, but I've heard the horror stories about young Lieutenants who gave faulty intel during a briefing (not even their fault really) because their Senior NCO doesn't want to actually do work blames the LT for his foul up, and less than a month later they get branched off to some latrine post never to be seen again...

. Army life seems like fun.  

Well my experience is atypical, even for an Officer.

You could be spending your days on post constantly running battle drills for a deployment thats never coming, getting yelled at, and basically never seeing the light of civilization for months on end. 

I'm so lucky I branched both Intelligence in the National Guard. 

I still haven't even been to my job training school yet, but I am prior service making it to Sergeant about 9 months before I commissioned. And I'm finishing up my Master's (I'm intentionally delaying it as long as possible). In about 3 months though I get to pack my bags and head back to my old stomping grounds in Fort Huachuca, Arizona, about an hour south of Tucson for 6 months of Military Intelligence BOLC. 

Then... either back to Chicago or I find a nice little quiet Guard unit on the West Coast. Or I could go active. I don't know.

[Taboo]

Steelcan wrote...
. He looks too generic for me.

I'd totally go for a Bowie mod for the face but I've never seen one. Shepard is an avatar of the player so it's best to get one that you can relate to.

I have no issue with Sheploo.

[krukow]

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Of course Sheploo has some pretty bad facial animations. I can't imagine any woman taking kindly to that glare he gives during one of the romance conversations.

He makes a similar one when talking to Garrus about "reach and flexibility".

Eugh.

. He looks too generic for me.

You shut your mouth, he inspired zoolander!!

[fiendishchicken]

Steelcan wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Of course Sheploo has some pretty bad facial animations. I can't imagine any woman taking kindly to that glare he gives during one of the romance conversations.

He makes a similar one when talking to Garrus about "reach and flexibility".

Eugh.

. He looks too generic for me.

Honestly, Sheploo is the only person I can see as Commander Shepard. As Taboo said, Sheploo is the only one I can relate too.

Any other features just don't feel like Commander Shepard for me. I see all these customs and read stories with customs, and I just can't get into them.

FemShep is different for me, but I don't really consider her canon. 

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 27 septembre 2012 - 04:52 .