82210 réponses à ce sujet

[LuxDragon]

If he wanted infertility, he could've removed the certain organs to get the right effect. Or just sterilized her.

[Ieldra]

Heh....this again? From what little we get from the dossier Miranda's infertility should be treatable.

As for the other thing, yeah, what Miranda's father did brings up a number of... possibilities. I must be one of the few who can view them dispassionately. I really can't understand why people get as irrational as they do about these things in general. I have absolutely zero emotional reaction to incest as long as it isn't forced and it doesn't involve children, and in the latter cases, it's a crime, yeah, but so are other things. I see no reason to treat this differently.

Apart from that, if that was what Miranda's father had in mind, he wouldn't have treated her the way he did.

But all that's speculation. So far, the only thing we really know he did is emotional abuse. While that's bad enough, it's hardly enough to shoot him on sight. He deserves to be heard out like anyone else. And should we get the opportunity, I'd let Miranda decide what to do.

Edit:
I must say that - again - I find the level of hate expressed by certain people on the last few pages disturbing.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 août 2011 - 07:16 .

[Arijharn]

Well, that's what I'm assuming it was Ieldra, forced when she was a child at some point.

EDIT: At least, that's what I was assuming when Seboist and I were talking.

Modifié par Arijharn, 08 août 2011 - 07:19 .

[Ieldra]

drwells123 wrote...

strive wrote...
I wouldn't say she is bad with people, but her charisma is certainly supported by her competence and beauty greatly when handling/working with people.

I assume she's "bad with people" to the extent that she has little patience for people aren't as smart/driven as she is. (Of course, she doesn't have to worry about running into many lazy morons on the Normandy.)

That's the vibe I get from her - that she really could be more charming if she wanted, she just doesn't care for it, and likely she resents that this often counts for more than competence.

I also assume she loathes the idea of using her looks to persuade people or get ahead - both because it could seem like weakness and because it's relying on something given to her by her father. Her brain is of course also given to her by her father, but she's the one who has to build on it.

I think she's perfectly capable and willing to use her looks to get what she wants. She just won't do it in an environment where she wants to be valued for her competence, for instance within Cerberus. And she won't respect those who she can easily manipulate that way. 

@Arijharn:
I still think react too emotional to such things. Anything like that, which can result in witch-hunts in RL, I find profoundly disturbing. It's as if suddenly reason gets switched off and people lash out blindly at the next available easy target. I hate to say it, but to me that reaction is almost as bad as the crime that triggers it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 août 2011 - 07:34 .

[Ieldra]

spiros9110 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
She had noble intentions but she didn't factor in what Oriana wanted who's the one who should ultimately decide whether or not to remain with the father. Regardless the law is on Mr.X's side.

I believe in this case, it all comes down to what the father wanted, with no concern towards either daughter.  In my perspective, Miranda did the right thing because she lived through 15-16 years of a terrible life and not being able to achieve anything without it going towards the path her father wanted.  Think about it, if you were in her position, you would assume and think the most likely outcome for Oriana is what Miranda was put through during her life.  I believe, being put in that position, Miranda did the most logical thing. 

Yes, she did. I think we can take most of her account of her childhood at face value. I also think that the letter of the law shouldn't be taken into account in this case, since we can assume Mr.X could buy the best lawyers and wriggle out of pretty much any case made on the grounds of Miranda's experiences. Likely, Miranda pre-empted what the courts would have done had they full knowledge of what happened with Miranda. 

But that doesn't change anything with regard to what we should do should we meet Mr.X in the course of ME3. His side must be heard.

[Ieldra]

Seboist wrote...
I don't see anything sinister even going by what Miranda says ("I'm not his first daughter, just the first one he kept"). I don't see how that translates into say, finding them dead in a ditch somewhere.

Mr. Lawson needs to have his say and if the claims are false then Miranda needs to be sued for slander.

Now you're going too far. You're basically assuming that everything she told us was a deliberate lie AND that she spread the story widely. To what purpose, I ask? I certainly wouldn't have thought less of her with a different backstory. Also, it appears hard enough for her to talk about it. 

I'm with you that Mr.X needs to be heard out. But to assume "everything is a lie" without *any* evidence pointing to it, that's just a conspiracy theory.

[LuxDragon]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Miranda was shot at when she tried to run away?

That's assualt/child abuse at the very least, and attempted murder at the worst.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 08 août 2011 - 08:53 .

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Arijharn:
I still think react too emotional to such things. Anything like that, which can result in witch-hunts in RL, I find profoundly disturbing. It's as if suddenly reason gets switched off and people lash out blindly at the next available easy target. I hate to say it, but to me that reaction is almost as bad as the crime that triggers it.

Then I'll just draw comfort from the fact that I'm not as extreme as others then.

[Aliqaiser]

 check this out, that guy just killed the illusive man 

Modifié par Aliqaiser, 08 août 2011 - 09:12 .

[Aliqaiser]

 And is this how u can get ur chance to take revenge:D

[Renegade Alchemist]

I want Miranda back!
If that is not possible then i don't want Ashley either! (Never liked Ashley)

[Jebel Krong]

LuxDragon wrote...

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Miranda was shot at when she tried to run away?

shots were fired. it's not clear who by or directed at because the statement is not elaborated.

[Ieldra]

LuxDragon wrote...
Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Miranda was shot at when she tried to run away?

To play devil's advocate:

She only says "shots were fired" and that several of her father's security guards were injured in the process. So....she was the one who did the shooting. And to make it even worse, she could have carried Oriana at the time, which would mean the guards would have been extra careful with the shooting, while Miranda did not have to be. The evidence we've got is compatible with "Miranda shot her way out of her father's house".

I know I'm a little contrary here. It's intentional. I don't really believe Miranda shot without sufficient cause from her perspective, nor do I believe that Mr.X is innocent. Sending mercenaries to get Oriana back without even an attempt to contact her first speaks for itself. I'm just saying that the details of the escape - and of Miranda's childhood in general - are vague enough that Mr.X deserves to be heard. 

@Renegade_Alchemist:
Yep, we, too, want Miranda back. In a big way.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 août 2011 - 09:28 .

[Arijharn]

Lux, how on Earth are you going to finish your fanfic at chapter 60?

[Spanky Magoo]

Well I wouldnt shoot him on sight but I have a feeling anyone who would do what he has done is not to be trusted. Kind of a say what you going say but make one move I dont like and... well you get the point. Manipulative people will always try to weasel their way out of things they are responsible for.

[LordNige]

The way I see it, its going to be very difficult for Bioware to accommodate every character as a permanent squad member (let alone please every fan). Seeing the way that ME3 seems to be going I would be happy having Miranda as a pivotal NPC or a temporary squad mate for some missions against Cerberus. I wish she were a permanent squaddie (I used her in practically every playthrough when I wasn't sentinel) though but I don't thing the game is going that way.

[goofyomnivore]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that Miranda was shot at when she tried to run away?

I always found it much more likely that NIket/Miranda's contacts were being shot at rather than Miranda. I assume Miranda was transporting Oriana personally, and that her father knew/assumed that as well.

I assume she's "bad with people" to the extent that she has little patience for people aren't as smart/driven as she is. (Of course, she doesn't have to worry about running into many lazy morons on the Normandy.)

I agree with this, and I imagine her being the "professional ice queen" most of the time to her co-workers, contacts, and people in general. I was simply stating her charisma/charm is more about her looks/competence than her "charm/social skills". I think she can converse, but people let her shortcomings slide because of her competence and looks. I doubt she flaunts her look unless she has too, but that doesn't mean it doesn't help.

she just doesn't care for it, and likely she resents that this often counts for more than competence.

I agree perfectly said.

As for Mr.X, I need more information before I can decide on him. I don't think he is a good man, and what he did to his children is horrible, but I'm not going to shoot him on sight without hearing his side of things. And ultimately I would probably defer to Miranda on what to do with him.

[jtav]

He's a dead man. The courts would never touch him. He murdered his daughters and abused Miranda. So, yes, I think he deserves it. Everything I know about him suggests a mustache-twirling villain with no redeeming qualities.

[CuseGirl]

LordNige wrote...

The way I see it, its going to be very difficult for Bioware to accommodate every character as a permanent squad member (let alone please every fan). Seeing the way that ME3 seems to be going I would be happy having Miranda as a pivotal NPC or a temporary squad mate for some missions against Cerberus. I wish she were a permanent squaddie (I used her in practically every playthrough when I wasn't sentinel) though but I don't thing the game is going that way.

do you think because Ashley lovers suffered without her, us Miranda fans are getting the shaft to compensate? I kno it sounds selfish, but I didn't play ME-1, I really dont care about anyone from that game but Miranda was important to my Shep in ME-2 and I'd like to have her back. I honestly can't believe they would just shluff her off like that.

[Ieldra]

CuseGirl wrote...

LordNige wrote...

The way I see it, its going to be very difficult for Bioware to accommodate every character as a permanent squad member (let alone please every fan). Seeing the way that ME3 seems to be going I would be happy having Miranda as a pivotal NPC or a temporary squad mate for some missions against Cerberus. I wish she were a permanent squaddie (I used her in practically every playthrough when I wasn't sentinel) though but I don't thing the game is going that way.

do you think because Ashley lovers suffered without her, us Miranda fans are getting the shaft to compensate? I kno it sounds selfish, but I didn't play ME-1, I really dont care about anyone from that game but Miranda was important to my Shep in ME-2 and I'd like to have her back. I honestly can't believe they would just shluff her off like that.

Yep. I *have* played ME1, and I do like Ashley, but I'm going to like her a lot less if she's going to have significantly more screen time than Miranda. I'm sort of resigned about Jacob, who I also like quite a bit, but there's every reason not to sideline Miranda, and if they do, it will appear like arbitrary favoritism.

[CuseGirl]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yep. I *have* played ME1, and I do like Ashley, but I'm going to like her a lot less if she's going to have significantly more screen time than Miranda. I'm sort of resigned about Jacob, who I also like quite a bit, but there's every reason not to sideline Miranda, and if they do, it will appear like arbitrary favoritism.

I'm also a bit worried about straight up character suicide with her. Because she's one of Cerberus' best operatives, she's in an odd place, considering Cerberus' antogonism to Shepard. Was her resignation legit? If they're gunning for Shepard, they have to be gunning for her. Maybe she'll betray you.....::sigh::

[MisterJB]

Shoot him? That's just wasting good bullets.
I can think of so many uses for this beauty.

Modifié par MisterJB, 08 août 2011 - 02:02 .

[Sebby]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Seboist wrote...
I don't see anything sinister even going by what Miranda says ("I'm not his first daughter, just the first one he kept"). I don't see how that translates into say, finding them dead in a ditch somewhere.

Mr. Lawson needs to have his say and if the claims are false then Miranda needs to be sued for slander.

Now you're going too far. You're basically assuming that everything she told us was a deliberate lie AND that she spread the story widely. To what purpose, I ask? I certainly wouldn't have thought less of her with a different backstory. Also, it appears hard enough for her to talk about it. 

I'm with you that Mr.X needs to be heard out. But to assume "everything is a lie" without *any* evidence pointing to it, that's just a conspiracy theory.

Eh, I never assumed everything she said was a lie. My whole initial point was that there's grayness with Miranda taking Oriana from her father since by all accounts the latter had no say in it. It all came down to what Miranda thought was best for her.

I find that this makes her a more interesting character. :happy:

[Sebby]

jtav wrote...

He's a dead man. The courts would never touch him. He murdered his daughters and abused Miranda. So, yes, I think he deserves it. Everything I know about him suggests a mustache-twirling villain with no redeeming qualities.

Saying such blatant false claims isn't cool bro.

[jtav]

"First he kept." Two possibilities, really. He killed them or he imprisoned them somewhere.