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[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...
I certainly never got that impression. I saw a man who used his influence to get what he wanted that's all. I never understood the glamorization by people on here.

I mean, these kinds of guys always turn out to be sniveling little ****s. Hide behind the money, hide behind the power, hide behind the person.

Faced with death he panics like every other goon. He could harm Miranda from a distance but close up he's just another boob in a suit.

Of course he was weak. I saw no evidence of the strength of will needed to terrorize someone like Miranda.

As for the glamorization, it's very simple. I believe krogan say it best- "you're only as good as what you kill" (can't remember the exact quote but this is fitting paraphrase I think). We have Miranda, a totally badass character. Anything that has her on the run for a good chunk of her life has to be pretty scary right?

By making Lawson a gutless worm, Miranda's character is cheapened. This is what you were running scared from? Pfft. I could crush this guy. Not my Shepard, me, the player. Same thing happened with the Reapers. Incomprehensible cosmic horros? Nay! Giant killbots.<_<

The point is if he was just a weakling with money Miranda would've deposed him long ago. Especially with Cerberus at her back.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:12 .

[fiendishchicken]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ah yes with the phallus for a head and testicles/breasts as feet?

It's a bit early to start drinking don't you think?

Tequila is my water. 

I ****** it out.

Ladies love to drink from my bottle. 

It's never to early for some whiskey either.

Rum, and Vodka, and Bourbon.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:14 .

[hot_heart]

jtav wrote...
But I really need something Traynor can use affectionately.

Could look to English terms. Angel, Poppet, Petal, Sunshine.

Though they're more 'friendly' terms than flirtatious (but then 'princess' from a Londoner would be the same, really)

[Taboo]

Cerberus isn't going to take time to eliminate her father for the lulz because Miranda asked them to.

They're human beings. They aren't Nietzhchian Supermen. Everyone has a motive and everyone has secrets as we found out with Miranda.

He was a pawn for TIM and nothing more. Were you honestly expecting a boss battle with this guy in the character arc of a minor character?

[fiendishchicken]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
I certainly never got that impression. I saw a man who used his influence to get what he wanted that's all. I never understood the glamorization by people on here.

I mean, these kinds of guys always turn out to be sniveling little ****s. Hide behind the money, hide behind the power, hide behind the person.

Faced with death he panics like every other goon. He could harm Miranda from a distance but close up he's just another boob in a suit.

Of course he was weak. I saw no evidence of the strength of will needed to terrorize someone like Miranda.

As for the glamorization, it's very simple. I believe krogan say it best- "you're only as good as what you kill" (can't remember the exact quote but this is fitting paraphrase I think). We have Miranda, a totally badass character. Anything that has her on the run for a good chunk of her life has to be pretty scary right?

By making Lawson a gutless worm, Miranda's character is cheapened. This is what you were running scared from? Pfft. I could crush this guy. Not my Shepard, me, the player. Same thing happened with the Reapers. Incomprehensible cosmic horros? Nay! Giant killbots.<_<

The point is if he was just a weakling with money Miranda would've deposed him long ago. Especially with Cerberus at her back.

But the thing is, can a child think that way? 

When I was a child I was afraid of a lot of things. Now I know I'm a lot scarier than they are. But that's because I confronted my fears. 

Miranda has a tendency to run away from how she feels. She'll hide from it.

Childhood trauma, or just plain fear in my case, can be difficult to overcome.

Giant Killbots are still pretty deadly. But yeah, they should have stayed the incomprehensible cosmic horrors.

Make Leviathan be like the beings that created something, something they should never have messed around with, and their creation is now nearly unstoppable in it's power and hate.

[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Cerberus isn't going to take time to eliminate her father for the lulz because Miranda asked them to.

They're human beings. They aren't Nietzhchian Supermen. Everyone has a motive and everyone has secrets as we found out with Miranda.

He was a pawn for TIM and nothing more. Were you honestly expecting a boss battle with this guy in the character arc of a minor character?

Once he found out Cerberus was harboring Miranda, Lawson cut off his support. Deposing him and installing someone in his place (Miranda or a puppet) would win them back those resources. Hardly for the lulz.

And yes a drawn out confrontation was needed to do the character justice. Not necessarily an actual battle with a healthbar and everything. But at the very least a Benezia style fight where he just sends in mooks to get you (or husks).

I need to gather all my thoughts for this like I did for the Control ending. Once I have a document I'll let you know what I expected.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:40 .

[Taboo]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Cerberus isn't going to take time to eliminate her father for the lulz because Miranda asked them to.

They're human beings. They aren't Nietzhchian Supermen. Everyone has a motive and everyone has secrets as we found out with Miranda.

He was a pawn for TIM and nothing more. Were you honestly expecting a boss battle with this guy in the character arc of a minor character?

Once he found out Cerberus was harboring Miranda, Lawson cut off his support. Deposing him and installing someone in his place (Miranda or a puppet) would win them back those resources. Hardly for the lulz.

wat

I see no reason to finish him off early as it would you know...ruin the character arc.

He's a man who hides behind money, power and influence. When it came to facings things he's just another guy.

I mean would you have preferred something like with Donovan Hawk? I'd have laughed my ass off had that happened.

What you're looking at is more sidelining. It's just bad. He needed more dialouge but I never expected him to be some badass like some people in here. The content blows but I didn't expect an encounter like the one with TIM.

[CrutchCricket]

fiendishchicken wrote...
But the thing is, can a child think that way? 

When I was a child I was afraid of a lot of things. Now I know I'm a lot scarier than they are. But that's because I confronted my fears. 

Miranda has a tendency to run away from how she feels. She'll hide from it.

Childhood trauma, or just plain fear in my case, can be difficult to overcome.

She may have hid when she was younger or on her own. But by the time we meet her in ME2 the scared child is no more. What's more she has Oriana to protect. It's obvious doing anything to Oriana is as close to a Berserk Button as Miranda gets.

For that reason alone, if Lawson was such a weakling, the ME2 loyalty mission wouldn't have been, let's keep hiding Oriana. It would've been, "let's swat this annoying insect once and for all"

Face it, at one point Miranda had the human STG at is best (or space Al Quada at its worst), the single most badass human in existence, a team of nearly as badass humans and aliens and an undetectable ship, possibly with a Reaper gun strapped to it... and enough ammo and biotics to orbit Schwarzenegger. If Lawson was the pathetic coward you and ME3 are trying to sell, there is zero reason there wouldn't be a crater where his worthless corpse used to be.

[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...

wat

I see no reason to finish him off early as it would you know...ruin the character arc.

He's a man who hides behind money, power and influence. When it came to facings things he's just another guy.

I mean would you have preferred something like with Donovan Hawk? I'd have laughed my ass off had that happened.

What you're looking at is more sidelining. It's just bad. He needed more dialouge but I never expected him to be some badass like some people in here. The content blows but I didn't expect an encounter like the one with TIM.

"Ruin... his character arc"?



K you actually made me lol.

It IS ruined. It's about as ruined as it gets. It's ruined in a box with a side order of fries. If the ending wasn't the ****pile it is it would be the single most ruined thing in Mass Effect since John Ruiner, the ruined Bishop of Darth Ruin ruined the Annual Ruins Exploration Award Ceremony with a ruined suffle.

The point isn't "should they have ended him in ME2" but rather they didn't end him in ME2 why is that? Because, even with all the resources at her command, Miranda still couldn't touch him. Her only option was to run. And Miranda does not run from cowards and weaklings.

Lawson needed to be ruthless, menancing and always in control. The best I can do without that compilation I was talking about is Viktor from Underworld.

In an ideal world anyway. Given how tight for resources ME3 was some concessions need to be made. But even so, the quality of the character is far below what it should've been.

[Taboo]

I expected a lot more too but there's nothing we can do about it. What you're describing to me is a comic book villain with a "MYAAH" streak. That's why I find it best to not aestheticize and glamorize such characteristics as they almost never manifest.

You have a sniveling coward whose influence frightens people. Here, alone by himself his true nature comes out. No body guards, no hit-men, no vehicle to fly,drive etc. I'd have really liked to have had more dialogue with him but we have what we have.

And for the record she does swat him like an insect.

[CrutchCricket]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I expected a lot more too but there's nothing we can do about it. What you're describing to me is a comic book villain with a "MYAAH" streak. That's why I find it best to not aestheticize and glamorize such characteristics as they almost never manifest.

Not at all. (And what is it with this place and comic book villains? Anytime someone criticizes a villian here they always refer to them as a comic book vilians negatively. Have we forgotten the Joker?)

Have you seen Underworld?

If not, then just wait until I can type out all my thoughts on the matter. I don't have the time at the moment and maybe I'm skipping over the important bits.

And for the record she does swat him like an insect.

Yes but it's hardly satisfactory. I'm not thinking good job, I'm thinking "what took you"?

[fiendishchicken]

CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
But the thing is, can a child think that way? 

When I was a child I was afraid of a lot of things. Now I know I'm a lot scarier than they are. But that's because I confronted my fears. 

Miranda has a tendency to run away from how she feels. She'll hide from it.

Childhood trauma, or just plain fear in my case, can be difficult to overcome.

She may have hid when she was younger or on her own. But by the time we meet her in ME2 the scared child is no more. What's more she has Oriana to protect. It's obvious doing anything to Oriana is as close to a Berserk Button as Miranda gets.

For that reason alone, if Lawson was such a weakling, the ME2 loyalty mission wouldn't have been, let's keep hiding Oriana. It would've been, "let's swat this annoying insect once and for all"

Face it, at one point Miranda had the human STG at is best (or space Al Quada at its worst), the single most badass human in existence, a team of nearly as badass humans and aliens and an undetectable ship, possibly with a Reaper gun strapped to it... and enough ammo and biotics to orbit Schwarzenegger. If Lawson was the pathetic coward you and ME3 are trying to sell, there is zero reason there wouldn't be a crater where his worthless corpse used to be.

But you're narrowing his capability to a physical concrete form. That's not all the power that he holds. 

He has mental and psychological, a more abstract form of power.

And he holds that power over her because of the emotional abuse she suffered from as a child. Trauma like that is very hard to overcome. 

One of the single biggest challenges to many soldiers I know is water. Hydrophobia is very common. It's also surprising the number of people who don't know how to swim. These big, strong, physically able warriors are afraid of drowning in a pool with 3 or 4 lifeguards watching them.

I myself was afraid of creepy crawlies. Not spiders or other bugs, but worms, slugs, and snails and things of that nature. Cephalopods. I still am to an extent. And part of my job involves me running through environments where they thrive. 

And these are pathetic little cephalopods that are 1/2000 of my physical size.

[CrutchCricket]

fiendishchicken wrote...
But you're narrowing his capability to a physical concrete form. That's not all the power that he holds. 

He has mental and psychological, a more abstract form of power.

And he holds that power over her because of the emotional abuse she suffered from as a child. Trauma like that is very hard to overcome.

And if we saw that in the confrontation it would go a long way to to cover the holes that exist. I'm not talking about physical force, that means nothing.

But all throughout the encounter Lawson should be berating her, attacking her with words, attempting to make her feel worthless and insignificant. And we should see the effect it has on her.

The Lawson we were promised wouldn't hide behind Oriana. He would just glare and sneer at Miranda, and with words alone make her doubt even her ability to hold the damn gun. Just that small change would work wonders.

I myself was afraid of creepy crawlies. Not spiders or other bugs, but worms, slugs, and snails and things of that nature. Cephalopods. I still am to an extent. And part of my job involves me running through environments where they thrive.

And these are pathetic little cephalopods that are 1/2000 of my physical size.

And yet you do run through environments where they thrive. Because you need to, to achieve your goal.

Miranda would steel herself as well. Because she has a goal that needs achieving. But there must be more to Lawson yet because until Sanctuary, her steeling and her resources are still not enough. There is a reason for that.

[Dr. Doctor]

To be fair Cuttlefish can be intimidating:

[CrutchCricket]

Dr. Doctor wrote...

To be fair Cuttlefish can be intimidating:

ROFL

Lighten the mood AND remind me of high school science rivalries?

You always know just what to add to the convo, Doc.


Anyway off to lunch. If anyone responds to my thoughts on Lawson I will get back to you. Fair warning, just in case you think I get my jollies from necroing random convos.:innocent:

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 28 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .

[fiendishchicken]

CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
But you're narrowing his capability to a physical concrete form. That's not all the power that he holds. 

He has mental and psychological, a more abstract form of power.

And he holds that power over her because of the emotional abuse she suffered from as a child. Trauma like that is very hard to overcome.

And if we saw that in the confrontation it would go a long way to to cover the holes that exist. I'm not talking about physical force, that means nothing.

But all throughout the encounter Lawson should be berating her, attacking her with words, attempting to make her feel worthless and insignificant. And we should see the effect it has on her.

The Lawson we were promised wouldn't hide behind Oriana. He would just glare and sneer at Miranda, and with words alone make her doubt even her ability to hold the damn gun. Just that small change would work wonders.

I myself was afraid of creepy crawlies. Not spiders or other bugs, but worms, slugs, and snails and things of that nature. Cephalopods. I still am to an extent. And part of my job involves me running through environments where they thrive.

And these are pathetic little cephalopods that are 1/2000 of my physical size.

And yet you do run through environments where they thrive. Because you need to, to achieve your goal.

Miranda would steel herself as well. Because she has a goal that needs achieving. But there must be more to Lawson yet because until Sanctuary, her steeling and her resources are still not enough. There is a reason for that.

Indeed he should be doing that. I believe and have argued for the same thing myself.

And indeed I do. I have overcome that fear. It was never really traumatic for me, I just got creeped out by cephalopds. And the only part of skin for me that is usually exposed is my neck and lower face/head. 

She doesn't face him because she can't. She's terrified of the man. But she knows he has that which she loves most: Oriana. She steels herself to save Oriana. But even then that's not nearly enough. Shepard's intervention and influence helps her overcome that fear.

[CrutchCricket]

fiendishchicken wrote...
She doesn't face him because she can't. She's terrified of the man. But she knows he has that which she loves most: Oriana. She steels herself to save Oriana. But even then that's not nearly enough. Shepard's intervention and influence helps her overcome that fear.

We agree on what Oriana means to Miranda. That means that as soon as Lawson threatens her, Miranda steels herself and does what needs to be done.

Oriana was threatened in ME2. Miranda would've stepped up to bat then. Or at the very least gone the extreme coward route and just asked Shep or TIM to "take care" of Lawson once and for all, without ever setting foot within a light-year of him. But she didn't.

Because Lawson was still untouchable. Simple money does not buy that kind of protection. Not from Shepard or Cerberus.

Lawson should've been more formidable.

Now, I go to lunch.

[Steelcan]

I'm just wondering why did Lawson keep making female versions of himself, Miranda says that her genes are his but modified. Why not keep it simple and just make a male duplicate not a female one? Also her gene manipulation could explain her infertility.

[Skullheart]

Steelcan wrote...

I'm just wondering why did Lawson keep making female versions of himself, Miranda says that her genes are his but modified. Why not keep it simple and just make a male duplicate not a female one? Also her gene manipulation could explain her infertility.

Don't know. The worst scenario might be incest to keep his dinasty pure.

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...
But the thing is, can a child think that way? 

When I was a child I was afraid of a lot of things. Now I know I'm a lot scarier than they are. But that's because I confronted my fears. 

Miranda has a tendency to run away from how she feels. She'll hide from it.

Childhood trauma, or just plain fear in my case, can be difficult to overcome.

She may have hid when she was younger or on her own. But by the time we meet her in ME2 the scared child is no more. What's more she has Oriana to protect. It's obvious doing anything to Oriana is as close to a Berserk Button as Miranda gets.

For that reason alone, if Lawson was such a weakling, the ME2 loyalty mission wouldn't have been, let's keep hiding Oriana. It would've been, "let's swat this annoying insect once and for all"

Face it, at one point Miranda had the human STG at is best (or space Al Quada at its worst), the single most badass human in existence, a team of nearly as badass humans and aliens and an undetectable ship, possibly with a Reaper gun strapped to it... and enough ammo and biotics to orbit Schwarzenegger. If Lawson was the pathetic coward you and ME3 are trying to sell, there is zero reason there wouldn't be a crater where his worthless corpse used to be.

Yes, Henry Lawson's presentation was f*cked up beyond recognition. The logs on Sanctuary were interesting, and I recall I actually looked forward to meeting him, but then.....what a disappointment. No real confrontation at all, and Miranda says two words (!) to him. I wonder if our special friend Big Mac Walters wrote this or if it was Jay W. As opposed to that, Miranda's following exchange with Shepard is very nice, except there, too, I would've expected more comments on what just happened. 

[Steelcan]

Skullheart wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I'm just wondering why did Lawson keep making female versions of himself, Miranda says that her genes are his but modified. Why not keep it simple and just make a male duplicate not a female one? Also her gene manipulation could explain her infertility.

Don't know. The worst scenario might be incest to keep his dinasty pure.

. :blink:  Would that me incest or matsturbation seeing as how they are the same genes?:blink:

[Skullheart]

New rule for ME3; if something was f*cked up, it was Super Mac's artistic view.

[Dr. Doctor]

I'm sort of disapointed with the fact that Henry Lawson just gets defenestrated and that's it. I mean after hearing so much about the guy I'd have liked to ask him some questions:

Lawson: ..and that's how the genetic tailoring process I developed works. (turns away from white board to notice everyone has left) Damnit they got me monologuing again. 

[Steelcan]

Skullheart wrote...

New rule for ME3; if something was f*cked up, it was Super Mac's artistic view.

. So all of ME3 is ARTISTIC VISION!!!!!! ()

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, Henry Lawson's presentation was f*cked up beyond recognition. The logs on Sanctuary were interesting, and I recall I actually looked forward to meeting him, but then.....what a disappointment. No real confrontation at all, and Miranda says two words (!) to him. I wonder if our special friend Big Mac Walters wrote this or if it was Jay W. As opposed to that, Miranda's following exchange with Shepard is very nice, except there, too, I would've expected more comments on what just happened. 

. It would have been nice to see the technology Cerberus developed at Sanctuary used against the reapers.