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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#80376
CrutchCricket

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fiendishchicken wrote...

No it doesn't. As I said above, people don't just switch their sexuality overnight. 

I never said they did.

Gay spouse cases are usually about a realization and it may be gradual.

Objectively speaking, I agree, one doesn't simply go gay (or straight) at the snap of a finger.

But it's a question of self-discovery (and possibly self-delusion).

#80377
jtav

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And even if (2) were true, it doesn't follow that (1) necessarily is, because we know nothing of Miranda's actual romantic history beyond Jacob, Is Miranda canonically bisexual? No. She's not canonically anything. A character isn't defined by their interest in Shepard. Especially since I can exhaust her dialogue as MShep without her hitting on me.

#80378
krukow

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I feel this is getting massively off topic.

Back on topic.

Miranda is straight. She's interested in Men (Jacob, Male Shep), and not interested in Women. We know this because of meta-gaming. There is enough evidence in the one direction, and no evidence in the other, that we can draw a conclusion. Any other opinion is just trolling.

#80379
katcrave

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CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You have, once again, presented fallacies to justify your opinion. Please present an actual argument.

I stated my opinion in the above posts. AU is fine. Not in canon.

Is "fallacy" your new catchphrase?

Or just a convenient way to ignore what you don't agree with?

(1) Miranda is heterosexual because all her past relationships are with men
(2) the last two users of the dating logs are not necessarily male
(3) Therefore (1) is not necessarily true

Is that clear enough for you?

Pro tip: The key words there is "necessarily". I'm not arguing that (1) is false. But I am arguing that you do not have sufficient grounds to dismiss its opposite.



When considering canon, yes you do. For every other bi character, both mshep and fshep were able to start a relationship with them. There is a plethora of evidence in game to suggest Miranda is straight. There is no evidence in game to suggest she is interested in women. She never explicitly states she is not bi, but unless you can prove otherwise, her canon orientation is straight.

#80380
fiendishchicken

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CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

No it doesn't. As I said above, people don't just switch their sexuality overnight. 

I never said they did.

Gay spouse cases are usually about a realization and it may be gradual.

Objectively speaking, I agree, one doesn't simply go gay (or straight) at the snap of a finger.

But it's a question of self-discovery (and possibly self-delusion).


It can happen, but it will be a lifelong journey. And it is rare. Past 25, most people are set in their ways in terms of sexuality. 

#80381
CrutchCricket

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Taboo-XX wrote...

YOU must show that she's bisexual.

That's not my claim. I do belive that's a strawman.

I never said she was bisexual. I said she could be because nothing contradicts it.

You believe the dating logs contradict it. I think that's irrelevant but even playing along I have shown that this is not necessarily the case because the gender of the last two participants is ambiguous.

#80382
katcrave

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fiendishchicken wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

No it doesn't. As I said above, people don't just switch their sexuality overnight. 

I never said they did.

Gay spouse cases are usually about a realization and it may be gradual.

Objectively speaking, I agree, one doesn't simply go gay (or straight) at the snap of a finger.

But it's a question of self-discovery (and possibly self-delusion).


It can happen, but it will be a lifelong journey. And it is rare. Past 25, most people are set in their ways in terms of sexuality. 


Oh come on. We all know homosexuality is contagious! Haven't you watched Fox News? :lol:

#80383
krukow

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CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

YOU must show that she's bisexual.

That's not my claim. I do belive that's a strawman.

I never said she was bisexual. I said she could be because nothing contradicts it.

You believe the dating logs contradict it. I think that's irrelevant but even playing along I have shown that this is not necessarily the case because the gender of the last two participants is ambiguous.

That's stupid.

She could be a cyborg, because nothing contradicts it.

#80384
fiendishchicken

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CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

YOU must show that she's bisexual.

That's not my claim. I do belive that's a strawman.

I never said she was bisexual. I said she could be because nothing contradicts it.

You believe the dating logs contradict it. I think that's irrelevant but even playing along I have shown that this is not necessarily the case because the gender of the last two participants is ambiguous.


Taboo isn't claiming anything in that quote. He's challenging you to show any inclination or indication in bisexuality.

#80385
fiendishchicken

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katcrave wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

No it doesn't. As I said above, people don't just switch their sexuality overnight. 

I never said they did.

Gay spouse cases are usually about a realization and it may be gradual.

Objectively speaking, I agree, one doesn't simply go gay (or straight) at the snap of a finger.

But it's a question of self-discovery (and possibly self-delusion).


It can happen, but it will be a lifelong journey. And it is rare. Past 25, most people are set in their ways in terms of sexuality. 


Oh come on. We all know homosexuality is contagious! Haven't you watched Fox News? :lol:


Right, so I guess we should also go back to quarantining HIV/AIDS patients and have any offspring rounded up and made to live in chaste closed off communities.

That's what Bill O'Reilly thinks we should do. :?

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:21 .


#80386
Taboo

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CrutchCricket wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

YOU must show that she's bisexual.

That's not my claim. I do belive that's a strawman.

I never said she was bisexual. I said she could be because nothing contradicts it.

You believe the dating logs contradict it. I think that's irrelevant but even playing along I have shown that this is not necessarily the case because the gender of the last two participants is ambiguous.


In the abscence of evidence the most likely answer is no.

Fallacy.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:22 .


#80387
Babi_Siha

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CrutchCricket wrote...

Babi_Siha wrote...
You are one to talk about with that very diplomatic reply. You are the one acting hostile, not Taboo.

Oh that's right, I'm "picking fights" and "being offensive".

First post of the day, merely reminding people not to be so militant and this is what I get. And I'm the hostile one.


You can remind people, that's fine. But when you ask someone if you're touching a sensitive spot then you are trying to get to that person.

So you can act as innocent as you want, but on your first post you were in fact the one trying to pick a fight and trying to offend someone else, don't try to pretend otherwise.

#80388
CrutchCricket

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krukow wrote...

That's stupid.

She could be a cyborg, because nothing contradicts it.

She tells you what she is. She is not a cyborg.

#80389
Stalker

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krukow wrote...

I feel this is getting massively off topic.

Back on topic.

Miranda is straight. She's interested in Men (Jacob, Male Shep), and not interested in Women. We know this because of meta-gaming. There is enough evidence in the one direction, and no evidence in the other, that we can draw a conclusion. Any other opinion is just trolling.

Missing the point here. She is portrayed as straight in the games, but there is no evidence that she is completely unable to ever share intiminate moments with a female.

It is very unlikely, but it's not impossible. I'm sure there are individuals who can give you an experience report how they changed their sexuality in adult life. OR didn't even change it and just experimented with it.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:28 .


#80390
krukow

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CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...

That's stupid.

She could be a cyborg, because nothing contradicts it.

She tells you what she is. She is not a cyborg.

She never says she's not a cyborg.

And, she admits that she was grown and created in a lab. 

Who's to say robot parts weren't included??

#80391
CrutchCricket

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Taboo-XX wrote...
In the abscence of evidence the most likely answer is no.

THIS. Most likely. Not absolute.

If you would've said that earlier we could've saved each other a couple of pages of grief.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .


#80392
Stalker

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krukow wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...

That's stupid.

She could be a cyborg, because nothing contradicts it.

She tells you what she is. She is not a cyborg.

She never says she's not a cyborg.

And, she admits that she was grown and created in a lab. 

Who's to say robot parts weren't included??

Now you are just getting unreasonable.

#80393
CrutchCricket

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Babi_Siha wrote...
You can remind people, that's fine. But when you ask someone if you're touching a sensitive spot then you are trying to get to that person.

So you can act as innocent as you want, but on your first post you were in fact the one trying to pick a fight and trying to offend someone else, don't try to pretend otherwise.

I was already accused of of that when I said it.

Kindly go back and re-read and don't just get on the bandwagon.

#80394
krukow

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Mr Massakka wrote...

krukow wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...

That's stupid.

She could be a cyborg, because nothing contradicts it.

She tells you what she is. She is not a cyborg.

She never says she's not a cyborg.

And, she admits that she was grown and created in a lab. 

Who's to say robot parts weren't included??

Now you are just getting unreasonable.

Nope, I'm using the same logic.  She never says she isn't a cybor, or that she has no robot parts.  So my interpretation of the character is that she's a cyborg.  It's just as valid as you bi-miri people.

Maybe more valid, since meta-gaming doesn't invalidate my belief.

#80395
Taboo

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Mr Massakka wrote...
Missing the point here. She is portrayed as straight in the games, but there is no evidence that she is completely unable to ever share intiminate moments with a female. 
It is very unlikely, but it's not impossible. I'm sure there are individuals who can give you an experience report how they changed their sexuality in adult life.


Everyone has the possibility of having sex with the same gender. But not everyone does. Because not everyone is gay or bisexual.

People don't "turn" after having a wonderous night out with the same gender. That's a very old cliche used in Hollywood and it's offensive.

See: Goldfinger

#80396
CrutchCricket

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krukow wrote...

She never says she's not a cyborg.

And, she admits that she was grown and created in a lab. 

Who's to say robot parts weren't included??

Lawson was focusing on genetics, not robotics.

You really gonna keep this up?

#80397
krukow

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CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...

She never says she's not a cyborg.

And, she admits that she was grown and created in a lab. 

Who's to say robot parts weren't included??

Lawson was focusing on genetics, not robotics.

You really gonna keep this up?

He worked with husk technology the only time we see him, and that includes robotics.

Miranda is a cyborg, and you can't offer any evidence I'm wrong.

#80398
CrutchCricket

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krukow wrote...
He worked with husk technology the only time we see him, and that includes robotics.

Miranda is a cyborg, and you can't offer any evidence I'm wrong.

In ME3 decades after Miranda was created.

No there is no evidence that she doesn't have artificial parts. But most likely, she doesn't.

#80399
krukow

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CrutchCricket wrote...

krukow wrote...
He worked with husk technology the only time we see him, and that includes robotics.

Miranda is a cyborg, and you can't offer any evidence I'm wrong.

In ME3 decades after Miranda was created.

No there is no evidence that she doesn't have artificial parts. But most likely, she doesn't.

But it's possible she's a cyborg, and therefor my interpretation is completely valid.

Miranda is a cyborg.

#80400
Taboo

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Aren't we all just robots?

#philosophy

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 octobre 2012 - 06:35 .