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[LuxDragon]

Seboist wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

We know that Mr.Lawson used to support Cerberus, so he's a good human patriot and not all bad.

He supported Cerberus because TIM is charismatic. I doubt most of the investors ever really know anything about what Cerberus does.

What do you base that on? There's no indicator he even knows TIM's existence.

Because he's not the Illusive Man 24/7. Evidently, he takes the time to shag the top models in the galaxy, which means he has an identity he uses to interact with the galaxy. He's something, just a contradiction and a mystery of who he is (Until the latest comic anyway)

[Sebby]

LuxDragon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...

Seboist wrote...

We know that Mr.Lawson used to support Cerberus, so he's a good human patriot and not all bad.

He supported Cerberus because TIM is charismatic. I doubt most of the investors ever really know anything about what Cerberus does.

What do you base that on? There's no indicator he even knows TIM's existence.

Because he's not the Illusive Man 24/7. Evidently, he takes the time to shag the top models in the galaxy, which means he has an identity he uses to interact with the galaxy. He's something, just a contradiction and a mystery of who he is (Until the latest comic anyway)

That's one of those things that isn't meant to be taken too seriously like Legion playing video games or Grunt's illiteracy.

[MisterJB]

Actually, according to Paul Grayson in "Retribution", TIM doesn't have an alternate identity. The information could be unreliable but it's unlikely. Grayson knew what TIM looks like and had three years to discover him which shouldn't have been too hard if Jack Harper was a socialite.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I tend to believe that a major funder like Mr. Lawson wouldn't be handing out possibly hundreds of millions of creds to Cerberus without knowing who he was giving the money to. Simply being told by a mysterious person that the money will be put to good us seems like a massive leap of faith something I doubt Mr. Lawson has alot of.

[Sebby]

MisterJB wrote...

Actually, according to Paul Grayson in "Retribution", TIM doesn't have an alternate identity. The information could be unreliable but it's unlikely. Grayson knew what TIM looks like and had three years to discover him which shouldn't have been too hard if Jack Harper was a socialite.

The books aren't completely consistant with ME2 TIM. The Ascension novel for example has TIM being some CEO who's based in the penthouse of Cord-Hislop on Earth where Grayson met him in person once. It doesn't add up with the hologram communicating TIM who's on a constantly moving space station.

Like Jacob and Wilson say in the Lazarus station "nobody knows who he really is".

[LuxDragon]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I tend to believe that a major funder like Mr. Lawson wouldn't be handing out possibly hundreds of millions of creds to Cerberus without knowing who he was giving the money to. Simply being told by a mysterious person that the money will be put to good us seems like a massive leap of faith something I doubt Mr. Lawson has alot of.

That's what misinformation is for. As much resources as those backers have, TIM will always have a cornerstone in that market to pull the wool over military intelligences, much less private services.

They may 'think' they know where their money goes, but deception is one of TIM's best tools.

[Sebby]

The books say that the front companies' employees don't know where their money is going but the way Miranda describes it in ME2 they're independent and knowingly support Cerberus.

Who knows what's what.

[LuxDragon]

All she said that there were several weathly financial backers who trust TIM.

"Nobody. We're privately funded, and our backers trust the Illusive Man to make the right decisions."

Unfortunately, no one really know anything about TIM now.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

And we do not know his precise location. He's probably moving constantly, for secure purposes. Not in ME2 though, he's in the same place throughout the entire ME2 story line. Who knows where he'll be in ME3.

[Sebby]

He clearly changes places depending on what's done with the Collector base.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yeah, especially since Miri and I quit and then we blow the base to hell.

*Is <3'ing his New Miri Avatar!*

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 août 2011 - 05:58 .

[Sebby]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Yeah, especially since Miri and I quit and then we blow the base to hell.

*Is <3'ing his New Miri Avatar!*

You're lucky my femshep doesn't exist in your playthrough or else things would get ugly over her seeing her man get angered like that. :happy:

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Lol well I L<3VE it when Miri tells TIM off and resigns!

"Or what? You'll replace me next?"

"I gave you an order, Miranda!"

"I've noticed. Consider this my resignation....":wub:

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 09 août 2011 - 06:12 .

[Sebby]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Lol well I L<3VE it when Miri tells TIM off and resigns!

"Or what? You'll replace me next?"

"I gave you an order, Miranda!"

"I've noticed. Consider this my resignation....":wub:

It's a good thing he considers my femshep to be more valuable than Miri then. He spent billions to revive her. <3

[ParadoxAu]

How do you all feel about the final decision in Legion's Loyalty Mission? How do you think Miranda would feel about it? I'd recommend watching this video discussing the mission, it elaborates on it much better then I could articulate.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 09 août 2011 - 06:40 .

[Filuto]

great video man funny and something to think about. And in my opinion is better to change their minds than commit genocide...but Thane did not agree he told my than take away their personality (beliefs) is the same as killing them physically .. well he has a point but still i "saved them" .. and when geth did that council thing there was like 5 more votes for indoctrination than genocide...and about Miranda

Modifié par Filuto, 09 août 2011 - 11:06 .

[Ieldra]

Seboist wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Yeah, especially since Miri and I quit and then we blow the base to hell.

*Is <3'ing his New Miri Avatar!*

You're lucky my femshep doesn't exist in your playthrough or else things would get ugly over her seeing her man get angered like that. :happy:

LOL. I understand. My main femShep remained single throughout ME1 and ME2 because there wasn't an available man who interested her. But the Illusive Man - that would be a catch. Of course she's also best friends with Miranda and wouldn't think of destroying the base. What can I say, it's the best of both worlds. I hope TIM won't get the villain ball in ME3. That would be disappointing.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2011 - 07:42 .

[Sebby]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Yeah, especially since Miri and I quit and then we blow the base to hell.

*Is <3'ing his New Miri Avatar!*

You're lucky my femshep doesn't exist in your playthrough or else things would get ugly over her seeing her man get angered like that. :happy:

LOL. I do understand. My main femShep remained single throughout ME1 and ME2 because there wasn't an available man who interested her. But the Illusive Man - that would be a catch. Of course she's also best friends with Miranda and wouldn't think of destroying the base. What can I say, it's the best of both worlds. I hope TIM won't get the villain ball in ME3. That would be disappointing.

TIM has looks,charm,wealth and power. Everything to make a woman happy. :happy:


My two femsheps also consider Miranda to be their best friend (along with Tali)...... it's too bad the game doesn't allow their relationship to play out like that like it does with Liara in LOTSB (ughh). Even Kelly gets to have a more friendly relationship with femshep than Miri.

Edit: I forgot to mention that when I did my one Pure Paragon playthrough that blowing up the base and seeing TIM angry was one of the most painful things I did in ME along with killing Wrex.

Modifié par Seboist, 09 août 2011 - 07:50 .

[LuxDragon]

I hope he does because him suddenly seeing the error of his ways (And there are many of them) without rhyme/reason is crap.

Besides, Cerberus is trying to kill us again. Who's fault is that, I wonder?

Either it's on purpose, and he's a jerk, or it's an accident where he lost control of his organization, in which case, he's an idiot for whatever reason.

Either scenario doesn't bode well for him.

[Ieldra]

LuxDragon wrote...
I hope he does because him suddenly seeing the error of his ways (And there are many of them) without rhyme/reason is crap.

Besides, Cerberus is trying to kill us again. Who's fault is that, I wonder?

Either it's on purpose, and he's a jerk, or it's an accident where he lost control of his organization, in which case, he's an idiot for whatever reason.

Either scenario doesn't bode well for him.

That are not the only alternatives. His motives may make sense after we get to know them. Besides, Cerberus' objective may not be to kill Shepard, but to prevent him/her from doing whatever he's going to do in ME3, or to capture him/her for whatever purpose. Just that we are on the receiving end doesn't mean his motives don't make sense.

What I want to see is a situation where we fight our way into his presence, and he explains his motives, and they make so much sense that supporting him is not out of the question. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2011 - 08:29 .

[Sebby]

Cerberus going after Shepard might be due to her succumbing to indoctrination -> http://social.biowar...index/8053209/1

[Filuto]

Ieldra2 100% agree i hope TIM will not became villain too i love that guy i save the base and altough i know that in me3 cereberus is after me... damn it i would still save the base anyway i really enjoy work for cerberus in me2 cerberus equals awesome ship, perfect squadmate (miranda), and from beginng i use jacob alot too, but of course i did not save base only for these reasons but that is topic for another thread.

[Ieldra]

ParadoxAu wrote...
How do you all feel about the final decision in Legion's Loyalty Mission? How do you think Miranda would feel about it? I'd recommend watching this video discussing the mission, it elaborates on it much better then I could articulate.

The video is good, it has only one flaw: it assumes similarities in structure between geth and human that do not appear to exist. Geth are software only, as Legion explains, so there is no difference in the end between rewriting and destroying as far as the individual runtimes go - in both cases, they are destroyed. Also, it appears likely that individual runtimes are not sentient - Legion says as much when he claims that geth are lessened by losing contact with each other. So how many clustered runtimes are needed to make sentience? Obvious less than 1183, because Legion appears sentient and it's made to work in isolation from other geth. How do human morals apply to a collective intelligence? In some way, all geth are one, so rewriting the Heretics is more akin to repairing a cancer or a damaged limb than to brainwash individuals. On the other hand, the Heretics did separate as a collective, making two where there was only one before. 

In the end, I cannot decide on moral grounds with any kind of conviction that what I'm doing is right. So I always base my decision on pragmatic reasons: do I want to strengthen the geth or not? Do I want to engender positive relations? Or do I think it is more of a risk to strengthen them, given that they could turn against me.

I think Miranda would do the same and make a pragmatic decision. How that would go, I have no strong opinion about, but I think she would favor destruction. Just in case some of the old programming slips through.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 09 août 2011 - 08:31 .

[Dusty Arne]

I want to be able to put a bullet in her brain.. Cerberus Scum!

My soldier male shepard, is with Liara. (never cheated on her). and hates humans.

My vanguard female shepard is with Kaidan. (never cheated on him). and dislikes humans.

[LuxDragon]

Ieldra2 wrote...

That are not the only alternatives. His motives may make sense after we get to know them. Besides, Cerberus' objective may not be to kill Shepard, but to prevent him/her from doing whatever he's going to do in ME3, or to capture him/her for whatever purpose. Just that we are on the receiving end doesn't mean his motives don't make sense.

What I want to see is a situation where we fight our way into his presence, and he explains his motives, and they make so much sense that supporting him is not out of the question. 

Um... Reapers have taken Earth. Shepard is trying to save Earth. Cerberus wants to stop him... why?

That doesn't make sense at all. Besides, Casey Hudson specfically said Cerberus is trying to kill Shepard.