82204 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Control is more up to your interpretation of that ending; Shepard dies in a sense, but becomes immortal in another. Though given how many problems Miranda has with her own less-than-natural creation, she might not be down with Control either.

Yet Miranda has overcome those problems, so she'd not have any problems with Control for that reason. Also, I can see her being attracted to the order of the post-Synthesis civilization, even while being somewhat suspicious of what the Control entity might become in time.

Miranda would definitely not put her own personal wishes above what's best for the galaxy. She wouldn't touch Refuse with a ten-foot pole - she was always more concerned with results than principles, and wouldn't have a problem with sacrificing the geth if she thinks the Reapers are best destroyed.

For the same reason she wouldn't rule any option out that saves the galaxy. 

(apart from that: using technology is natural for humans. Thus, Miranda's creation was not "unnatural". Grr....I hate when people call it that).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:10 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

oh brother wrote...
WRT Miranda's decision on red/green/blue...I would say destroy. Then again most people would probably imagine Miranda would pick whatever their favourite ending is. Destroyers will say it ends the war, brings dead reapers. Synthesis people will say it is a new beginning, adavancment for all life. Contorllers will say...actually I am not sure. I never really looked into control.

I've thought about control for my Shepard who romances Miranda.  I think Miranda would agree that if someone had to have the reins of creepy giant machines, it might as well be the person (or the AI based on the person) who brought the galaxy together in the face of extinction.  And I think after Shep's ascension, she and other friends from Shep's previous life would probably help keep the new AI grounded.  I'm not sure how well that would shake out after everyone's inevitable death from old age, but it would at least help in the short term.

On the other hand, she's also seen the price TIM payed for biting off more than he could chew, and there's no arguing that of all the endings in any BioWare game ever, Control centralizes the most potential for abuse in the player's hands.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ieldra2 wrote...
(apart from that: using technology is natural for humans. Thus, Miranda's creation was not "unnatural". Grr....I hate when people call it that).

Then it was an awkward turn of phrase, and I'm sorry for hitting on a pet peeve, but Miranda spent a lot of time working out her place in the galaxy given how her father "grew" her and her sister.  Just because she's resolved those issues personally doesn't mean she won't still take them into consideration when viewing other people like Shep.  

And she does show considerable caution and even dislike of dangerous and monumental pieces of technology.  Her opinions on the Collector Base come to mind.  Miranda isn't TIM, seizing on every piece of new tech that comes her way.  She's more careful than that.

The Crucible decision is just an extension of caution.  And while I think it would vary from Shepard to Shepard, both Control and Synthesis represent technologically extreme change, for both Shep and the galaxy.  I wouldn't blame her for not immediately jumping on board.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:13 .

[Ieldra]

@Sable Rhapsody:
Hmph. Don't get me started on Miranda at the Collector base. That she turned into a sentimental twit from one moment to the other (she actually doesn't talk about the danger it represents, I'd have been fine with it if she had) is about the biggest pet peeve you could've triggered.

As for the choices, Miranda was always for advancement. She'd be as wary of what Destroy does to the galaxy as any other option, and she'd likely see the benefits of Control and Synthesis. The question is what would she think about the price of each option?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 03 octobre 2012 - 10:23 .

[wright1978]

Don't think Miranda would go for synthesis as she's cautious.
She wouldn't choose refuse because she's practical.
That leaves control and destroy. Given her recent bad experience of excesses of TIM(who had sole control of Cerberus) think that might put her off control.
Think while she might be worried about the damage destroy might do she would go for it.

[enayasoul]

wright1978 wrote...

Don't think Miranda would go for synthesis as she's cautious.
She wouldn't choose refuse because she's practical.
That leaves control and destroy. Given her recent bad experience of excesses of TIM(who had sole control of Cerberus) think that might put her off control.
Think while she might be worried about the damage destroy might do she would go for it.

I agree with this.    I think Miranda would be against control.  Her father and TIM come to mind. EDI would be fine if she had to die to save Jeff and the others. 

I'm personally against both synthesis and control. I'm not forcing entire civilization to go green to be one race.  It's going against their free will to chose their own fate on their own terms.   Controlling the Reapers is not what my Shep wanted either.  He wants to end the Reaper threat period. Not by controlling. People are always going to be in fear that they are going to attack again no matter what is said or done.  You just don't flip a switch and be all good and help rebuild when you just destroyed the freaking planets.  People will revolt against the reapers.  They've cause too much pain.  Ending them is the only option for me and my shep.

Too each their own story. 

[Taboo]

I think Miranda would be against the Vitalism in Synthesis. Really I do. It's bollocks. Control is well...yeah.

So that leaves Destroy.

To hell with Refuse. You want pragmatism she'd shoot that pipe without hesitation if the alternative was death for everyone. That's what my Shepard does.

She would NOT go full retard there.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 03 octobre 2012 - 11:59 .

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I think Miranda would be against the Vitalism in Synthesis. Really I do. It's bollocks. Control is well...yeah.

So that leaves Destroy.

To hell with Refuse. You want pragmatism she'd shoot that pipe without hesitation if the alternative was death for everyone. That's what my Shepard does.

She would NOT go full retard there.

. Agreed with that.

[Taboo]

Refusing is OOC for her.

Calling it now. 

[Lawrence0294]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Refusing is OOC for her.

Calling it now. 

Refusal is OOC for every Shepard, no matter how you played him.

Your Shepard needs to be a retard to choose this.

"you have to make a sacrifice to save the galaxy"

"Oh ? No way, i have moral values i can't betray, i'd rather let the galaxy get harvested than make a moral choice. I'm so pure"

Modifié par kratos0294, 03 octobre 2012 - 12:21 .

[Taboo]

It's nice to at least hope that if you're choosing Destroy your Shepard is thinking "To hell with this, to hell with that."

Eugh. I can't imagine mine refusing with all those other options available. Puts Miranda at risk as well, the longer the fight goes on. As well as all of Shepard's other friends.

[katcrave]

Refusal seems a very...'fundamentalist' choice to make. There is no compromise. Burn the whole galaxy down for the sake of principle.

[Taboo]

And I know Miranda would understand Destroy. I know she would. Out of all the LIs I know she'd support Shepard's decision.

That isn't OOC either.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

And I know Miranda would understand Destroy. I know she would. Out of all the LIs I know she'd support Shepard's decision.

That isn't OOC either.

. I can't really see any character picking anything but destroy.  TIM doesn't count he was indoctrinated

[Taboo]

Some would. I don't see EDI or Legion doing it.

But no one but Shepard can activate Synthesis. No one else has enough Soul Energy. 

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 03 octobre 2012 - 01:04 .

[jtav]

I think Miranda would tend toward Destroy. She prefers sure and certain ends to threats and is risk-averse. Control is too close to Henry. Synthesis is too much an unknown. I think she'd accept any choice (bar Refusal) Shepard made, but Control would be treated with skepticism. Which is why I imagine Shepards that cured the genophage with Wrex in charge reveal themselves in short order and use her as a check on his power. More Renegade Shepards--well, Cerberus the terrorist organization gets reformed to fight the tyrant.

[Taboo]

A Cerberus clone post war wouldn't go well either. You have to make distinctions between the new group and the ashes of failed idealism.

THAT has been shown to be true in the case of real world parties. No point in naming names.

No one would be able to oppose a Renegade Shepard AI. THAT has Fascist undertones.

[Steelcan]

Taboo-XX wrote...

A Cerberus clone post war wouldn't go well either. You have to make distinctions between the new group and the ashes of failed idealism.

THAT has been shown to be true in the case of real world parties. No point in naming names.

No one would be able to oppose a Renegade Shepard AI. THAT has Fascist undertones.

. It brings to mind an episode of the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror

Modifié par Steelcan, 03 octobre 2012 - 01:27 .

[jtav]

For once, I do mean something very close to Cerberus--an organization dedicated to the advancement, preservation, and independence of humanity by any means necessary. She'd be less wasteful, but if out and out terrorism advances her objective so be it.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
For once, I do mean something very close to Cerberus--an organization dedicated to the advancement, preservation, and independence of humanity by any means necessary. She'd be less wasteful, but if out and out terrorism advances her objective so be it.

This is about a Renegade Control scenario, right? I can see this happening.

[jtav]

Yeah, Renegade Control. Or to be more precise, Renegade with either a sabotaged genophage or cured with Wreav in charge. That Shepard is a tin tyrant and I can see Miranda crossing a lot of lines she's never crossed before to oppose him. The Illusive Woman in every sense of the title.

Paragon/Renegade with genophage cured, well I like to think she becomes Shepard's chief lieutenant, providing a valuable perspective and serving as his agent. And joining him when she dies.

[Taboo]

That's an ugly scenario to envision. Eugh. There would be nothing she could do though. Look at what the Reapers wrought under the Catalysts goal. Now look at a Renegade with a defined set of goals. I believe the lines are something to the effect of "The strong will take precedence over the weak."

How do you fight that though? They couldn't before. I think you're going to have a VERY sad state of affairs for many people in Renegade Control.

[jtav]

All dictators fall, and the fact that even the worst version is still not going to be restarting the cycle gives some hope here. The Reapers can only be active for a few centuries before having to go back into hibernation. If she can lay the groundwork, her successors might win. But regardless, I think she'd see the Reapers as something to oppose on principle.

[Taboo]

That's some wishful idealism. Far more than I possess. From what I recall I seem to remember them simply lying prone on Earth. They can hibernate right there. There are...at least twenty thousand of them if we look at the billion years scenario.

Ah yes...Rannoch.



The Shepard AI is more complex than the Catalyst. I wouldn't put my Shepard in Control of the Reapers. Not a chance.

[Taboo]

I come bearing gifts and Cat People. Behold this improved teaser image from the Omega DLC.