82204 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

David7204 wrote...

Ah well, being at wits' end just means you're getting smarter.

Buddy, how mature you must be to come here and make yourself feel big. How self-conscious you must be.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 04 octobre 2012 - 05:49 .

[SNascimento]

So, any cool Miranda's video out there?
.
Edit: just saw the videos in the other page. 

Modifié par SNascimento, 04 octobre 2012 - 06:25 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

katcrave wrote...
Oh, I agree. I'd prefer diversity. Difference of opinion is part of what makes this thread great.

And when all is said and done, there is probably more that we all agree on than we disagree.

For example, that Miranda needs more screen time in ME3.  And I haven't seen very many people who are happy with her rehashed sister rescue mission.  I wonder if she ever told Oriana what was really going on--Cerberus, Shepard, their father, that whole business.  I'm inclined to think she might not've had a chance being on the run between ME2 and ME3.  But I suppose Ori figured it all out by Horizon part deux.

[wright1978]

katcrave wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

katcrave wrote...

Not world-shattering. But seemingly irreconcilable judging from the responses from both "sides".

Yes, but must we build consensus? Do we all have to "convert" to one side or another?

There were accusations of "majority opinions" pushing out the little guys a few pages back. Don't we want diversity?

As long as you don't keep whining about it, you should be allowed to believe whatever you want, right?

Oh, I agree. I'd prefer diversity. Difference of opinion is part of what makes this thread great.

And when all is said and done, there is probably more that we all agree on than we disagree.

Agree completely. Interesting discussions arise from diverging interpretations.

[wright1978]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

katcrave wrote...
Oh, I agree. I'd prefer diversity. Difference of opinion is part of what makes this thread great.

And when all is said and done, there is probably more that we all agree on than we disagree.

For example, that Miranda needs more screen time in ME3.  And I haven't seen very many people who are happy with her rehashed sister rescue mission.  I wonder if she ever told Oriana what was really going on--Cerberus, Shepard, their father, that whole business.  I'm inclined to think she might not've had a chance being on the run between ME2 and ME3.  But I suppose Ori figured it all out by Horizon part deux.

Agree completely. Omega, Petrovsky, Miranda expansion of her Cerberus renegades Bioware!

[Lawrence0294]

I really think making a second thread on Miranda is not a very good idea. It would only divide us, which would be stupid since we all want the same thing, More Miranda.

And i strongly believe one of the beauties of this character is that there can be different intepretations. Some might not agree with these interpretations, but we should at least accept them and respect them.

I aslo believe, unlike what some people think, it would be quite easy the fix the problem of Miranda. She is loved for both her sides, just like Yankees picture shows it:



In ME3, they focused on 1 because of resources and it was an easy and lazy way to finish her arc.
So we basically got a one sided character in ME3. Some people prefered that side and so could get along with how she was portrayed. Others preferred the other side but, well got shafted.

Solution ? Bring a DLC where the other side is shown and bam, you got your two sided Miranda again and we are all happy ( well most of us would be i think). We can only do that if we are together as one fan base. If we divide ourselves, well we'll probably have to forget it.

Modifié par kratos0294, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:16 .

[wright1978]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

The problem is that there wasn't enough time to flesh out this new direction BioWare took Miranda, or that the time they had was enough, it just wasn't allotted properly. Also, I would have liked to have seen Miranda keep more of her ME2 mentality, just with her emotional wall broken down by Shepard. You can still love someone and be that badass we saw in ME2. I feel like BW made her...soft in ME3, though I'm not sure that's a good word for it.

Still, I think BioWare's most agregious error with Miranda was not having her as a temp-squadmate on Cronos Station. I can get the excuses for her not being on the Normandy from the moment you reunite with her on the Citadel (though it's feasible and I would have loved it), but her not being on Cronos Station was an epic failure on BioWare's part. That would have been a great cap to Miranda's character - coming face-to-face with the man that really gave her the chance to become the woman she is/was again, while it's the same man you must defeat now. The emotions that Miranda could feel in that scene would be intense, and it would also be very cathartic for her character.

Though I worry with the route they thought about taking with Miranda, they probably would have had Kai Leng kill her off on Cronos and had one of those contrived "revenge kill" moments.

Ideally She should have been on Cronos. However to me that's not the worst part of the appalling writing. The worst part is that there is a galactic extinction event going on and the organisation she spent years working for have gone batsh*t crazy and based on recorded lines she doesn't care a jot about it. All that matters apparently is Oriana.

Now the late addition of the Cerberus renegades e-mail can allow me to twist the material to suggest she's been recruiting/organising this faction from the get go. There's still the problem that Miranda refuses to talk to the man she loves about what she's doing  in this scenario but that's better than the Miranda the pure recorded content suggests.

Her current material could have been so much better written within its limitations. Oriana could still have been the reason why she rushes off to Sanctuary without Shep but it just didn't need to be the initial focus.

Omega DLC provides such an obvious opportunity to re-balance this somewhat. They probably have no intention of taking this opportunity though.

Modifié par wright1978, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:40 .

[Ieldra]

CrutchCricket wrote...
The bottom line is I truly don't believe we disagree as much as some people think.

We all agree Miranda isn't there as much as she should be and as whole as she should be. The role is one-sided and far too short.

Some of us miss the badass professional operative scientist side that we don't see
Some of us celebrate the warm human side that we do see.

There is pessimism and there is negative speculation about things we'll never know for sure. But at the end of the day, it's just disappointment and speculation.

We're all in this together.

For Miranda

Thanks for trying to moderate.

I apologize for coming across a little hard at times, but lately I'm getting GTFO vibes from some people here (sometimes they even say it), and that - and being misrepresented as a rule rather than the exception - just makes me dig my heels in harder. People can't expect me to remain silent when I'm accused of "taking away from Miranda" with my interpretation.

I think you are completely correct. We don't disagree as much as it seems at times. And I already said I didn't mean it literally when I said Miranda in ME3 was an impostor. That was to emphasize how important it is for me that her professional and pragmatic side gets appropriate screen time. And as you said in another post, I find that aspect more fascinating. It was what attracted me first to her. Yes, it was clear from the start that she was to soften somewhat, and if I hadn't liked that, I wouldn't have romanced her. The thing is, post-LM ME2 Miranda (minus LotSB) was balanced and ME3 Miranda is one-sided.

I don't really expect that anything will be done to correct the picture - a little hope for Omega DLC notwithstanding - but if we keep saying it maybe Bioware will do better with the next character of this type they create.

@kratos:
You're right. It is easy to fix. The question is: will they take the opportunity?  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:01 .

[Lawrence0294]

Oh god, Cronos station........don't get me started on that.

Not including Miranda there is a narrative choice i'll never, EVER understand !!!

Nothing can justify this, nothing. It is a stroytelling crime.

Modifié par kratos0294, 04 octobre 2012 - 08:58 .

[wright1978]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Snip

As for Omega's DLC, I fear for the worst and hope for the best. Honestly, I don't expect anything on the Miranda front. Don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I have a very nihilistic view on BioWare's drive to include Miranda in anything.

I'm not very optimistic either. Getting them to invest in more voiced content for her is a definite stumbling block. Even without that a nice addition of Petrovsky  referencing that Miranda has been in contact trying to recruit/get him to turn renegade could happen. That would of course require a non-simplistic representation of Petrovsky and a non linear shoot Cerberus mooks for Aria format.

[Ieldra]

kratos0294 wrote...
Solution ? Bring a DLC where the other side is shown and bam, you got your two sided Miranda again and we are all happy ( well most of us would be i think).

What I expected from ME3 is an opportunity to nudge her in slightly different directions. Similar to making her talk to Oriana or not in ME2. Cronos Station would've been a perfect opportunity for a decision that triggered some character development in one or the other direction, and almost everyone here would be happy.  

We can only do that if we are together as one fan base. If we divide ourselves, well we'll probably have to forget it.

Agreed. The best case scenario would be a decision like the above in a future DLC. That way everyone gets what they want.

BTW, that makes me wonder: does anyone not make Miranda speak to her sister in ME2 as a rule? I can see no convincing reason for that, since it only takes a nudge and you can clearly see she wants to make contact. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 04 octobre 2012 - 09:35 .

[Lawrence0294]

All i want is a balanced Miranda, and people to be happy and accept their different interpretations.

I like what we got in the game, but more needs to be added:

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Though I will say I found Paragon Shepard's lines about the Collector Base to be a little maudlin too. I dumped the thing because I didn't trust TIM with it, not because of any particularly grand reasoning about fear and humanity's soul or somesuch.

Yeah but Miranda's line has nothing to do with this kind of reasoning.

Miranda simply knew that letting TIM use something from the base would lead to this :


(or even worst)

Not OOC, even for the more pragmatic version of Miranda.
This line only confims that she's a good judge of character and that she doesn't want Cerberus to cross the line.

Hmm...If I may ask everyone else here:

Is that how you see it, too? Because thinking to destroy the base because of what TIM might do with it and the possible results of TIM's proven recklessless with these things, that I find acceptable. I can imagine that she foresees these things and if she does, that would reflect well on her. I just don't see any such thinking reflected in what she actually says.

[Ieldra]

BringBackNihlus wrote...
I don't think you're suggesting this, but I want to throw it out there:

I don't think we all need to conform to one Miranda doctrine to stand together for Miranda. We all have different interpretation of what he character is now, what it could have been and what it should have been. We do all have to be united FOR Miranda, though. No question about that. That's why I don't like the idea of a new thread. It will splinter the fan base, and that would be REALLY bad.

"United we stand, divided we fall."

Of course I am not suggesting that, and I fully agree with you. 

[wright1978]

Always have Miranda speak to Oriana. Getting to know eachother is something positive for both in my book.

As for collector base, i always rationalise that as Miranda knows TIM she knows how he is likely to use the base and no longer trusts his judgement.

[Steelcan]

Anybody watch the Presidential debate yesterday?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

kratos0294 wrote....

THIS is the one I hope to see when I choose Destroy again in My Canon, since Miri is My Love Interest. I haven't seen "My Version of the Extended Cut yet.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW, that makes me wonder: does anyone not make Miranda speak to her sister in ME2 as a rule? I can see no convincing reason for that, since it only takes a nudge and you can clearly see she wants to make contact. 

I do with my canon FemShep.  Mostly because she never really got the whole "family" thing   Hell, after ME2's bevy of family issues LMs, she was convinced the entire institution was nothing but f---ed up.

Ieldra2 wrote...
Because thinking to destroy the base because of what TIM might do with it and the possible results of TIM's proven recklessless with these things, that I find acceptable. I can imagine that she foresees these things and if she does, that would reflect well on her. I just don't see any such thinking reflected in what she actually says.

I don't think it's in the lines either, but given the amount of headcanoning we've all been doing with the series to fill in various plot gaps, why not do it at the end of ME2 as well?

I think for even the most pragmatic person, there's a very strong "eww" visceral response to the idea of what the Collectors were doing on that station.  Even the non-human squaddies show that sort of distaste.  Just because that's the reason she voiced doesn't mean it's the only consideration on her mind.

[Steelcan]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Anybody watch the Presidential debate yesterday?

Yes, and it was B-A-D for Obama. He got murked, and I'm not sure if it was any of Romney's own doing.

He (Obama) just looked lost and defensive, as if he could just walk out there on stage and wing it. He wasn't prepared, and he got killed for it.

. Obama has no balls and Romney has no plan, pick your poison America:sick: