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[CrutchCricket]

She was just not the same strong confident woman that I remember from 2185 anymore. I guess being hunted by Cerberus and losing access to military grade resources shook her up a bit. She seemed to still be trying to find her sea legs so to speak. But didn't want to appear weak or vulnerable in front of the one man she should be okay with letting see that side of herself. I wanted to hear her say that "Everything is not alright. And I'm not just talking about with my sister. Cerberus was my home, my family for over ten years. Now their trying to kill me." That can't be an easy thing to process. Who can she turn to now for help and support. Jacob has his own problems. Niket is dead. Shepard is focused on combating the Reapers. What's a girl to do?

 

My first play-through of Mass Effect 3. Every-time I encountered Miranda there seemed to be this melancholy and great sense of foreboding laced in every interaction. And I was shocked but not surprised when she died at Sanctuary. I'll never forget how she looks at Shepard and walks away during your talk with her over the Spectre Terminal. I remember thinking that, "You can't save someone from his or her self."

 

And for the record, you cannot discredit or debunk someone else opinion. If I don't like a movie that you do like. Your liking it does not nullify my dislike of it. I still wish BioWare would have let you talk to Jacob about your relationship with Miranda in ME 3. We all know they didn't work out. And I really wanted to get his advice and hear Jacob's side of things. Because sometimes you can wonder if your doing something wrong or is this just how she is. It was fun talking to Jacob about Miranda in Mass Effect 2. They should of kept that in ME3.

That's nice. Except that's not what (the majority of) your thread was about. You were complaining that you thought Miranda didn't "wub" you enough (term used purposefully). You thought she seemed "standoffish", "awkward" and like they "weren't really dating", something you maintained despite all the evidence people brought to the contrary. I think this quote sums up your opinion better than all your posts and random vid links on this page combined (with particular emphasis to that last bit):

 

"The chief problem that I have with Ms. Lawson, is that I felt as though she just flat out takes Commander Shepard for granted. And no one treats my Shepard like that!"

 

You tacked on some complaints about Oriana at the end but I know an afterthought when I see it. And now here you are, ironically leading with that. Why is that I wonder? Could it be perhaps because this thread is famous for analyzing Miranda's character outside the romance and infamously being pissed to the point of schisming about the absence of her profesional operative side? Groupthink indeed.

[o Ventus]

To the above:

 

[wright1978]

Yeah, Tali isn't a very good leader. I only ever choose Garrus or Miranda to lead the second team. Usually Garrus.

I usually pick Miranda for team leader (she's the xo and backing my xo in front of Jack is a good idea). I let Garrus be team leader for last hold the line segment as that feels more suicidal.

[God]

I usually pick Miranda for team leader (she's the xo and backing my xo in front of Jack is a good idea). I let Garrus be team leader for last hold the line segment as that feels more suicidal.

 

Indeed, and I bring Miranda with me, as I want her at my side for the most dangerous portion of the mission. There's no one else I'd rather have with me, as there's no one I trust more with my life. As well, I want to absolutely ensure that she is safe.

[CrutchCricket]

Indeed, and I bring Miranda with me, as I want her at my side for the most dangerous portion of the mission. There's no one else I'd rather have with me, as there's no one I trust more with my life. As well, I want to absolutely ensure that she is safe.

Before I knew anything about how the SM works this was my thought. With me=safe.

 

Would've been disastrous if I'd missed Miranda's LM somehow, or lost her loyalty over the Jack fight. Man, what a dumb event that was.

[God]

Before I knew anything about how the SM works this was my thought. With me=safe.

 

Would've been disastrous if I'd missed Miranda's LM somehow, or lost her loyalty over the Jack fight. Man, what a dumb event that was.

 

Well, at that point, she's the woman who has finally been able to take my Shepard's heart. The less tragic version of Vesper Lynd, if you will. 

 

Before her, he was a thoughtless womanizer who gave no thought to any of his conquests. He's pretty... fucked up in that regard. Miranda is, in someways, the first person he's able to love beyond himself.

[o Ventus]

I could never play a womanizing Shepard, partly due to game restrictions (before ME2 and Miranda come along, you can only be with 1 other person, not exactly a womanizer), and because "womanizer" was never an interesting trait to me. One of the reasons the Bond films aren't particularly great, IMO. The action sequences and the spy gadgets are the highlights for me, I could really care less about the Bond Girls when they're only there for Bond to get his d*** wet.

 

The way I RP Shepard, he's more-or-less a normal guy who's been thrust into extraordinary places and events. His natural talent, combined with his military training, indomitable will, and Alliance and Lazarus enhancements, all put him a cut above any other soldier. In terms of fighting, he's pretty much a SPARTAN-II from Halo. But, unlike the SPARTANs, he's also human (the "normal" I referred to earlier). He isn't some brainwashed super soldier, he has thought processes and emotions that factor into his interaction and decision-making. In ME1 he gets with Ashley, but things turn sour on Horizon in ME2, so he rebounds to Miranda. At first he thinks it to be a bad idea since he had just broken things off with Ashley, but in the end he's glad he made his decision, since Miranda sticks with him through so much more and is there for him when he needs it. She makes him happy in a way Ashley never did, and he loves Miranda in return.

[CrutchCricket]

I could never play a womanizing Shepard, partly due to game restrictions (before ME2 and Miranda come along, you can only be with 1 other person, not exactly a womanizer)

Well, you do have some options. You can sleep with the Consort. You can get the confrontation between Liara and Ashley and try to get both. Even though it's unsuccessful it still counts. There may be some other small interactions that may passably be interpreted as flirtatious. And in ME2 you could bone Jack before the Miranda romance comes up as well as "date" Kelly. Officially it's listed as just dinner but fade-to-black gives me license to imagine whatever I want.

 

But I'm with you on Shepard not striking me as the Bond type. I don't mind it the way you do but Shepard just isn't that suave. Not that he can't be charming. He's just too straitlaced, or perhaps blunt is a better word.

 

My Shepard was born in space. There are classified shenanigans in his past that directly result in him being inhumanly charismatic and leader-ish but I won't get into that. He's awed by the vastness of the universe and would likely have pursued something in astrophyiscs had it not been for the above. The two have therefore left him quite aloof and detached. Most things don't matter, except what falls under the purview of "his". His people, his job, his life, there is nothing he won't do to protect and advance them and they usually fall in that order. Everything else is on a case by case cost-benefit analysis. He gets the job done, no matter what. You tell him to take an objective, he takes the objective. You tell him to defend it, he defends it. He sent hundreds of men to their deaths at Torfan and he would've sent thousands more if that's what it took. However he's not careless. He feels every loss and remembers every name. And when applicable, he makes sure the score is settled.

 

By the time of Mass Effect his ruthless reputation is well established. He's perfectly willing to try diplomatic, non-violent solutions first, to cooperate with people and generally play nice. Unless it turns out they're tools in which case he will tell anyone and everyone precisely when they're idiots. And if they still don't take the hint, the Butcher of Torfan resurfaces. He sees the shortest line from A-B and follows it without mercy. Oh and anyone that fucks with him or his men dies. Period. Depending on the level of the fuckery a maiming or other non-lethal shit-ruining may also be employed.

 

Romance-wise he's had a few flings here and there but nothing serious. He doesn't get attached easy and is straight up with the women he is intimate with. By the time of the Saren crisis he does develop feelings for Ashley Wiliams. He admires her loyalty, her will and determination, even in the face of bullshit and her unwillingness to let bullshit slide. She proves herself capable of keeping up with him so the romance continues. Until ME2. Upon meeting Miranda Lawson he is intrigued by her skills, her commitment and ruthless dedication which mirrors his own. Though he has serious doubts about where she chose to place her loyalties, her brilliance, drive, intellect and tactical skills are pretty much a match for his own. He feels that she would not only keep up but step up, keeping pace and even taking the lead sometimes. Still feelings for Ashley linger until Horizon, where her limits become painfully clear to him. Leaving that behind, he is now free to pursue Miranda, his true match. They will accomplish great things together.

 

Or they would've, if ME3 hadn't developed spontaneous uncontrollable incontinence.

[God]

My Shepard is a lot like Craig's Bond, sans most of the self-loathing. He doesn't hate what he does.

 

He's quite a chauvinist and misogynist. He's got a string of broken hearts longer than the distance from the Earth to the moon.

 

Miranda is really the only person he can fall in love with. Ladykiller in love right there. Ashley stirred more in him than most other women could have, but at the same time, he didn't really approve of her... bravado. It wasn't genuine or authentic, and he was rather disturbed by her shocking loyalty to the alliance, whom he personally felt was rather ineffective and needed a serious overhaul.

 

He's the kind of guy that was always going to be a killer, while being charismatic and skillful to be a leader. Genetically superior; he's the kind of guy that's simply cut from a greater cloth than anyone else.

 

Ironically, his exploits and subsequent propaganda from the alliance have also made it harder for him in some ways: Everyone thinks he's a boy-scout now. When in truth he's a borderline sociopath.

[CrutchCricket]

Yes, well I guess "passionate" wasn't enough.

 

Maybe we should've chemically analyzed a secretion of hers to secure her rightful place in the final chapter. Or perhaps built life-sized, less then accurate but still somehow anatomically correct models of her.

 

What's a little personal dignity in the face of proper narrative placement and closure?

[o Ventus]

 

But I'm with you on Shepard not striking me as the Bond type. I don't mind it the way you do but Shepard just isn't that suave. Not that he can't be charming. He's just too straitlaced, or perhaps blunt is a better word.

I forgot about the Consort in ME1, but I'd never bothered sleeping with her.

 

I play my Shepard in a "blunt" way as well. At least, when it comes to his work. When he's out in the field on a mission, he plays by the book for the most part (he might make an exception to how he does things depending on the individual mission in question), and he defends "his" to the death. When he's at home or on the Normandy not really busy with anything, he's more open and friendly to approach, since his life and the lives of his men aren't on the line or in any immediate danger.

 

He doesn't default to ruthless though, unless someone close to him is being threatened. He prefers to tide things over peacefully, since just straight-up killing people is potentially a waste, and he prefers to come from each mission with more than he began it with. That's not to say he avoids confrontation though, or is overly naive. He has an idea of when people are lying to him or withholding information from him. He bears with it if they're allies, like ME2!TIM, but if they're on the other side, he will typically give them 1 chance to put the gun down and talk, so to speak. Of course, if Miranda, Oriana, or any of Shepard's crew are in danger, then the enemy WILL die. If they're holding someone he cares for hostage (like Henry Lawson with Oriana and Miranda in ME3), they won't just die, they'll suffer. If they ever hurt or kill someone he's close to, they won't just suffer. They'll suffer for a long time, to the point where they'll wish he had just put a bullet in their head and killed them then and there, rules and protocol be damned. When it goes that far, it's no longer about the mission, it's been made personal.

 

Basically, so long as you're on his good side, you're fine (and it's pretty easy to get on and stay on his good side, you have to try to be his enemy), but god help you if you're ever on the other end of his gun or biotics.

[CrutchCricket]

He doesn't default to ruthless though,

Interesting how you put this, because I was thinking of something like this and ME3 provided me with the perfect opportunity to RP it.

 

My Shep is a lot like yours. But he's been "defaulting" to ruthless more and more. Especially with the Reapers, as the stakes rise, as danger looms closer and as it becomes more apparent how powerless he really is to stop it. But it's not just the impending doom. It's a slippery slope of defaulting and it started since Torfan. He goes to his ruthless place easier and easier, sometimes without even thinking about it. And that does make him think about it, reflect on it. He's not afraid of what he is, or what he can do. He accepts that sometimes, maybe even often, that's what needs to happen. But he does wonder whether it's too easy to go to the ruthless place. Because the easier it gets, the easier it is to go when it's not called for. Maybe even when it's inappropriate. If that happens, he's not a necessary evil. He's just evil (term used for effect).

 

The perfect way I got to play this in ME3 was in curing the genophage, specifically revealing the sabotage. Bakara asks several times, remarks that you look worried, that there's something else bothering you. And the way that can play out is amazingly fitting. Because going to the ruthless place there is easy. You don't have to do ****. Just keep your mouth shut and you get krogan and salarian support and by the time the former figure it out it likely won't matter. The line is crystal clear. But has he defaulted too many times? Is that his only setting now? That's the struggle I RP my Shepard having as Eve asks what's wrong. And at the last moment I decide, that no. This time I won't default. This time I'll be a savior, not a butcher. I'll help instead of destroy or avenge. Other things I might've done like stop Samara from blowing her brains out, that was different. That was personal, small scale, a few individuals involved. This is about faceless numbers. And usually faceless numbers are assigned to the ruthless place. But not this time. This time I save.

 

It was a powerful moment. Kudos to the writers. As much as I harp on ME3 there are a lot of things it did right. The game still turned out good despite its flaws and that abomination they call an ending. The strength of the franchise still nets in the positive, despite all the setbacks.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Yes, well I guess "passionate" wasn't enough.

 

Maybe we should've chemically analyzed a secretion of hers to secure her rightful place in the final chapter. Or perhaps built life-sized, less then accurate but still somehow anatomically correct models of her.

 

What's a little personal dignity in the face of proper narrative placement and closure?

 

There, there.

 

At least she got to live.

 

Her death was unavoidable in the first script.

[CrutchCricket]

I kind of veer in the opposite direction. Start off ruthless, then kind of a soft touch in ME3.

Oh I'm still ruthless when I need to be. When people screw with me or when things really get tough. Another great moment from the other side of the coin is post coup when (Garrus?) asks if I could've pulled the trigger on Ash. My Shep goes as cold as arctic ice and goes "yep".

 

If he had to, he could pull the trigger on anybody. Some might hurt. But he'd do it.

 

There, there.

 

At least she got to live.

 

Her death was unavoidable in the first script.

If I'd written my manifesto on the healing properties of her saliva, they wouldn't have dared kill her, even in brainstorming

[o Ventus]

Interesting how you put this, because I was thinking of something like this and ME3 provided me with the perfect opportunity to RP it.

 

My Shep is a lot like yours. But he's been "defaulting" to ruthless more and more. Especially with the Reapers, as the stakes rise, as danger looms closer and as it becomes more apparent how powerless he really is to stop it. But it's not just the impending doom. It's a slippery slope of defaulting and it started since Torfan. He goes to his ruthless place easier and easier, sometimes without even thinking about it. And that does make him think about it, reflect on it. He's not afraid of what he is, or what he can do. He accepts that sometimes, maybe even often, that's what needs to happen. But he does wonder whether it's too easy to go to the ruthless place. Because the easier it gets, the easier it is to go when it's not called for. Maybe even when it's inappropriate. If that happens, he's not a necessary evil. He's just evil (term used for effect).

 

I also like this.

 

My Shepard is a Spacer/War Hero, so he's grown up in the shadow of his mother and without many friends, since he was always on the move and never staying on any ship or station for very long. He finally gets the recognition he feels he deserves after Elysium and the Skyllian Blitz, but his newfound fame hasn't done much to improve his social standing since he is idolized in the Navy. People look up to him, but they don't see him as a man, they see him as an icon. When Shepard takes command of the Normandy, this changes as he recruits new crew members and becomes acquainted with them.

 

He tries to do good by his crew (effectively his surrogate family by this point), but what with what he's seen on the Collector Base and going in to ME3, he's become hardened to the violence and brutality, even partaking in it without knowing (in the sense that he may be fighting, and he will get more vicious and fight with more bloodlust without consciously realizing it as the fight drags on). When he catches himself getting angry in a firefight, he tries to calm down so he doesn't make any stupid mistakes and get himself or someone else killed, but as everything continues, he finds it becoming more difficult to return to his "calm" state.

 

The stakes of the war with the Reapers are higher than anything Shepard has ever been involved in, and the sheer horror of what he witnesses takes its toll on his mind (mutated batarians with human corpses fused to their arms? Reaper-infused krogan with turian heads jutting out from their torsos? The s**t gets creepy). By the time ME3 is finished, he sometimes wakes up in a cold sweat due to nightmares, but he shrugs them off.

 

I'm still debating whether or not I want to "canonize" my Citadel fic (so to speak, just supplanting it into my own personal headcanon for what happens after ME3).

Spoiler

Miranda is murdered by the Clone and the CAT6 mercs in an attempt on Shepard's life, which finally drives Shepard over the edge and he ends up killing the entire mercenary group in addition to the Clone, while Garrus and Liara try to prevent his descent into madness and regret, but are ultimately unable to do so, and Shepard, overtaken by grief and the "it was my fault" mentality, cuts himself off from people and tries to drink himself to death, only to find out that his Lazarus upgrades won't let him die.

 

He starts out relatively fresh-faced and seems to be on a rising path, getting his own command and making new friends, and even falling in love with a beautiful woman, but he descends into some dark places before finally falling into the abyss altogether. 

[CrutchCricket]

The stakes of the war with the Reapers are higher than anything Shepard has ever been involved in, and the sheer horror of what he witnesses takes its toll on his mind (mutated batarians with human corpses fused to their arms? Reaper-infused krogan with turian heads jutting out from their torsos? The s**t gets creepy). By the time ME3 is finished, he sometimes wakes up in a cold sweat due to nightmares, but he shrugs them off.

That's also why I like the texture difference in ME3, even if my Shep looks different (even after they fixed the import bug). ME1-ME2 he was identical. ME3 he looks older, more worn. This is clearly having an effect on him. He doesn't fall apart because he can't, "not on my watch" is still the motto. But despite everything, he's still human. The stress, the horrors, they take their toll physically as well as mentally and emotionally. Miranda did damn good work with Lazarus rebuilding and upgrading him. But she didn't make him into a terminator, or more fittingly Marcus from Terminator:Salvation (best part of that movie, Sam Worthington would make a good Shepard and should be in more movies). What he is and what she's helped him to be, both through skill and through her love is enough to win this war. But not without cost.

 

The nightmares would've been a great touch if it weren't for that meddling kid. I joke but I still really, really want to perform all MK-X fatalities on him. Repeatedly.

 

Miranda dying is still the only justification I have for my Shepard leaving behind the mortal coil and picking Control (though I still don't have the stomach to do it ingame). Like Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, she's his last remaining link to this world. Her loss eclipses all others. That coupled with the fact that it's the choice with least consequence (that he cares about) means he's ready to surrender the pain, the weariness, all of it to embrace the only thing he has left- his fascination with the stars.

 

Of course once he is at the command of limitless technological possibilities the first thing he does is return the favor- recovering Miranda's body and rebuilding her, exactly as she was. Hardly a challenge since she wasn't spaced or melted in atmosphere and well, he is a nigh-mechagod. Other things happen later, it's all very confusing.

 

It could also be a justification for why Shepard walks towards the tube like a moron, if you pick that option.

 

At least Liara wasn't immune to fatal choices either. Kind of balances things out.

Liara's "fatal choice" was the complete destruction of the galaxy. Hardly the same thing.

[CrutchCricket]

Hmm, well it's hard to look at that change and not infer some kind of blatant favoritism.

 

Though I'll have to now turn around and say that the time capsule thing was one of the sweetest things I've ever seen an NPC do. I and my Shepard were touched.

 

I do agree there needs to be some opportunity for harsh language though. Particularly near Thessia and the asari monastery. I wanted to smack her when she cried about banshees. Did she somehow forget the legion of husks she helped me mow down?

[themikefest]

There was a Virmire like choice where you had to risk either the VS or Liara (Kai Leng killed them). It's more than likely most people would off the VS, but at least the choice was there.

 
I would choose Liara most of the time

I saw a post, however long ago, that after Thessia Liara would commit suicide if Shepard doesn't get to her cabin time. Don't recall who posted it.
 

I don't really want to kill Liara though. I just wish I could knock her out, like I did Manuel at the beginning of ME1.

I don't have a problem with killing her, but I preferred her being sent to Hackett since that's where she would be the most useful
 

Or maybe just tell her how stupid her time capsule is, and never bring that **** into my cabin again.

I like the idea of the capsule, I didn't like that its her telling Shepard's story. I would have her walk around the ship asking the crew their thoughts on Shepard

The galaxy is not destroyed to have Liara killed. That only happens if ems is below 1750. She can be killed on the beam run with ems between 1750 and 1900. The galaxy will be rebuilt, it just takes longer than with high ems

[God]

Looks like it's time to get off the topic of Liara now.