82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
No, it's a matter of opinion.
I don't agree with your opinion, and I already explained why I find the the AAP2 armor less credible.

Well, whatever you think about the armor as such, I disgree with you but I can see where you're coming from. It's where you claim that the catsuit is credible that the argument crosses the line into the preposterous. Really, that and "credible" don't deserve to be mentioned in the same library. Even in-game characters comment on it. Say you like the fanservice and don't care about the plausibility problems and I can do nothing more than disagree and leave the matter alone. But don't try to sell me bullsh*t. At least the others here who prefer the catsuit were honest about that. You may have noticed that I haven't tried to argue against them.

I won't be honest if I say I don't find the catsuit credible in the Mass Effect or a futurist universe. So I will continue to say it as long as I think it is credible.
I don't try to sell you anything.
I, as a Miranda fan, express my opinion about something concerning Miranda, in a Miranda fan thread.
I won't change my mind about this, because you claim that my arguments are not valid.


I already said what is my honest opinion, so stop making assumptions about what I really think.

In 2010, the thinest bulletproof kevlar fabric : 9mm
Nobody could have imagined this few years ago. And there were people like you who said it would be impossible.
You don't believe they can reduce this width 150 years later ? It's your opinion, not mine.

As
for the sex appeal, it never make an outfit less efficient for combat.
And if it can distract or perturb enemies, then it's not a disadvantage.

And
I can't prefer the fanservice because I don't consider her outfit as
fanservice. Some camera shots, yes, not the outfit. To me it's justified
because of the character, and because of what she says about her looks.

i agree. i also found the unique outfits far more fitting than any generic or designed armour sets - including the AAP one which doesn't suit Miranda. at all. the camera angles could be... odd, the outfit isn't.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 août 2011 - 08:21 .

[GuitarShredUK]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

And Liara, who could mop the floor with Miranda biotically, has armor. That catsuit had the sole purpose of titillation. And barriers do zilch against toxic environments..

ME2 liara has a glorified lab-coat. i fail to see in principle why at the very least shields could not protect against hazardous environs. material after that becomes irrelevant.

Well, as per LoTSB she has picked up some light armour-esque clothing, may just be the textures but I'm sure theres at least some added protection on the body and legs. 

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

And Liara, who could mop the floor with Miranda biotically, has armor. That catsuit had the sole purpose of titillation. And barriers do zilch against toxic environments..

ME2 liara has a glorified lab-coat. i fail to see in principle why at the very least shields could not protect against hazardous environs. material after that becomes irrelevant.

According to the lore shields protect against fast-moving projectiles, which is why it is not necessary to have an air supply while wearing shields. That would mean there is no protection against environmental hazards. This is countered (or, as I would say, ignored for coolness) by the cutscene in the ME2 intro where a shield protects Joker from the vacuum.
I also think that the fact that shields need energy makes them less reliable that isolating clothing.

As for Liara, she wears an *armored* labcoat, which you can see in close-ups. The material has a thickness, unlike Miranda's outfit everywhere at the navel and below. And if I am not mistaken, it doesn't leave anything but neck, head and hands exposed. Something like Liara's outfit I would find OK for Miranda - only it doesn't seem her style.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 août 2011 - 08:29 .

[Sebby]

Liara's LOTSB outfit is a damn good one. It only needs a helmet to be ideal.

[ViSeiRa]

I don't like the base on which the discussion about armor and outfits is being held at all, you keep discussing whether Miranda's outfit is fit for her to fight in space and it is not, that's not an opinion it's a FACT.

What you can tell your opinion about is whether your suspension of disbelief is wide enough to like it or not, also we already know the devs are making the squadmates have outfits on the Normandy and armor on missions as Casey said about Ashley (maybe they'll give the choice to the players but they still admitted the problem).

And don't even get me started about squadmates like Jack or Samara. 

Modifié par ViSeirA, 11 août 2011 - 08:34 .

[Sebby]

ViSeirA wrote...

I don't like the base on which the discussion about armor and outfits is being held at all, you keep discussing whether Miranda's outfit is fit for her to fight in space and it is not, that's not an opinion it's a FACT.

What you can tell your opinion about is whether your suspension of disbelief is wide enough to like it or not, also we already know the devs are making the squadmates have outfits on the Normandy and armor on missions as Casey said about Ashley (maybe they'll give the choice to the players but they still admitted the problem).

And don't even get me started about squadmates like Jack or Samara. 

I would have loved to use Samara/Morinth as a squadmate but her outfit is too much of an eye sore.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

jtav wrote...

And Liara, who could mop the floor with Miranda biotically, has armor. That catsuit had the sole purpose of titillation. And barriers do zilch against toxic environments..

ME2 liara has a glorified lab-coat. i fail to see in principle why at the very least shields could not protect against hazardous environs. material after that becomes irrelevant.

According to the lore shields protect against fast-moving projectiles, which is why it is not necessary to have an air supply while wearing shields. That would mean there is no protection against environmental hazards. This is countered (or, as I would say, ignored for coolness) by the cutscene in the ME2 intro where a shield protects Joker from the vacuum.
I also think that the fact that shields need energy makes them less reliable that isolating clothing.

As for Liara, she wears an *armored* labcoat, which you can see in close-ups. The material has a thickness, unlike Miranda's outfit everywhere at the navel and below. And if I am not mistaken, it doesn't leave anything but neck, head and hands exposed. Something like Liara's outfit I would find OK for Miranda - only it doesn't seem her style.

ignoring liara, they have shown it's possible with joker and even how described - the way the shields work technically it's more than feasible. beyond that, miranda is NOT a frontline combatant a la grunt, zaeed, shep etc so the AAP armour makes zero sense from that perspective (it's also pretty ugly) - the default outfits much better fit her image.

@guitarshred padding is not woven ceramic/carbon fibre nano-weave etc. it's still a lab-coat.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 août 2011 - 08:47 .

[Jebel Krong]

ViSeirA wrote...

I don't like the base on which the discussion about armor and outfits is being held at all, you keep discussing whether Miranda's outfit is fit for her to fight in space and it is not, that's not an opinion it's a FACT.

What you can tell your opinion about is whether your suspension of disbelief is wide enough to like it or not, also we already know the devs are making the squadmates have outfits on the Normandy and armor on missions as Casey said about Ashley (maybe they'll give the choice to the players but they still admitted the problem).

And don't even get me started about squadmates like Jack or Samara. 

you never fight in a vacuum, i'll give you a toxic environment on one UNC, but even then you don't have to take anyone if you can't suspend disbelief that far.

[Sebby]

Jebel Krong wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

I don't like the base on which the discussion about armor and outfits is being held at all, you keep discussing whether Miranda's outfit is fit for her to fight in space and it is not, that's not an opinion it's a FACT.

What you can tell your opinion about is whether your suspension of disbelief is wide enough to like it or not, also we already know the devs are making the squadmates have outfits on the Normandy and armor on missions as Casey said about Ashley (maybe they'll give the choice to the players but they still admitted the problem).

And don't even get me started about squadmates like Jack or Samara. 

you never fight in a vacuum, i'll give you a toxic environment on one UNC, but even then you don't have to take anyone if you can't suspend disbelief that far.

Heretic Station is a Vacuum.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
ignoring liara, they have shown it's possible with joker and even how described - the way the shields work technically it's more than feasible.

They have described how? Where?

beyond that, miranda is NOT a frontline combatant a la grunt, zaeed, shep etc so the AAP armour makes zero sense from that perspective (it's also pretty ugly) - the default outfits much better fit her image.

But the default outfits don't fit the occasion (combat) at all. I really don't care whether an outfit fits her image, as long it's not fit for combat - and it isn't - she shouldn't wear it in combat. I'm not promoting the AAP armor or its like as default, but her combat outfit should cover everything but neck, head and hands and have a perceptible thickness. No painted-on pants that look like she's taken a bath in liquid latex, please. And in space there should be a full helmet (may be transparent) and gloves added.

[Jebel Krong]

Seboist wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

I don't like the base on which the discussion about armor and outfits is being held at all, you keep discussing whether Miranda's outfit is fit for her to fight in space and it is not, that's not an opinion it's a FACT.

What you can tell your opinion about is whether your suspension of disbelief is wide enough to like it or not, also we already know the devs are making the squadmates have outfits on the Normandy and armor on missions as Casey said about Ashley (maybe they'll give the choice to the players but they still admitted the problem).

And don't even get me started about squadmates like Jack or Samara. 

you never fight in a vacuum, i'll give you a toxic environment on one UNC, but even then you don't have to take anyone if you can't suspend disbelief that far.

Heretic Station is a Vacuum.

that's what legion says, true, but it does have gravity etc so maybe there was some atmosphere inside, it also blows up quite nicely for an empty station lacking oxidising materials. artisitc license? maybe but if you can stand that then you can stand a breath-mask...

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Heretic Station is a Vacuum.

that's what legion says, true, but it does have gravity etc so maybe there was some atmosphere inside, it also blows up quite nicely for an empty station lacking oxidising materials. artisitc license? maybe but if you can stand that then you can stand a breath-mask...

Three seconds of explosions (which are endemically unrealistic almost everywhere in visual entertainment) vs. several hours of having to look at that breathing mask. Not quite an appropriate comparison, don't you think?

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

They have described how? Where?

yu brought it up - it's also described readily in ME1 (VI upgrades for shields) - retune it to generally reflect any particle at a low level and it would work the same as only targeting near-c tiny projectiles.

Ieldra2 wrote...

beyond that, miranda is NOT a frontline combatant a la grunt, zaeed, shep etc so the AAP armour makes zero sense from that perspective (it's also pretty ugly) - the default outfits much better fit her image.

But the default outfits don't fit the occasion (combat) at all. I really don't care whether an outfit fits her image, as long it's not fit for combat - and it isn't - she shouldn't wear it in combat. I'm not promoting the AAP armor or its like as default, but her combat outfit should cover everything but neck, head and hands and have a perceptible thickness. No painted-on pants that look like she's taken a bath in liquid latex, please. And in space there should be a full helmet (may be transparent) and gloves added.

it's a game, set in the future, you can pretty much get away with most things - shields will inevitably provide vastly superior protection to any armour (especially as shep's own is only supposed to have ceramic plates - we have better stuff than that IRL already). tbh in a talky-game i'd rather see her (and everyone else's) faces in convos even in the 'exotic' places - creative license notwithstanding.

[jtav]

The default out that doesn't fit her image at all. It's cheap, tacky fan service that even the writers snicker at (see Enyala). A modified business suit would have fit her image much better.

[Ieldra]

@all:
Do you know what I find astonishing? That all the jokes about Miranda's ass and her outfits by people who you can't accuse of being haters *and* by a in-game character aren't enough to make people rethink their opinion about whether or not Miranda should have the same kind of outfit in ME3.

@jtav:
Exactly.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 août 2011 - 08:58 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Heretic Station is a Vacuum.

that's what legion says, true, but it does have gravity etc so maybe there was some atmosphere inside, it also blows up quite nicely for an empty station lacking oxidising materials. artisitc license? maybe but if you can stand that then you can stand a breath-mask...

Three seconds of explosions (which are endemically unrealistic almost everywhere in visual entertainment) vs. several hours of having to look at that breathing mask. Not quite an appropriate comparison, don't you think?

yes actually (see above reply). the breath mask at least serves something of a purpose. helmets wouldn't other than for the sake of 'realism' (which is only relevant to 'now' technology and our current baseline).

i vastly preferred all the unique outfits to any of the generic ME1 armour-sets - i mean, really - you could see thane in one? it would just detract from the characters/characterisation.

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

The default out that doesn't fit her image at all. It's cheap, tacky fan service that even the writers snicker at (see Enyala). A modified business suit would have fit her image much better.

for a scientist? which is pretty much what she is at the beginning of ME2?! besides she woud look like a cheap copy of TIM..

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@all:
Do you know what I find astonishing? That all the jokes about Miranda's ass and her outfits by people who you can't accuse of being haters *and* by a in-game character aren't enough to make people rethink their opinion about whether or not Miranda should have the same kind of outfit in ME3.

mainly because i'm big enough and old enough to not give a crap about what some juveniles and some juvenile camera angles on the odd occasion do to a character over a 50+ hour game filled with rich content for said character - infact the only time i even remember the camera angles is when people here bring them up - funny that.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 11 août 2011 - 09:07 .

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
yes actually (see above reply). the breath mask at least serves something of a purpose. helmets wouldn't other than for the sake of 'realism' (which is only relevant to 'now' technology and our current baseline).

I'm pretty sure exposed skin and eyes in space are as hazardous in the 22nd century as they are today.

i vastly preferred all the unique outfits to any of the generic ME1 armour-sets - i mean, really - you could see thane in one? it would just detract from the characters/characterisation.

I'm all for unique outfits. That's not the issue. Which kind of unique outfit, that's the question. I would prefer one that leaves my suspension of disbelief intact and doesn't make Miranda appear like she was available for everyone.

[Jebel Krong]

that might still be hazardous but technology to deal with that by then could be anything, hell i've read several possible solutions in other sci-fi and the mass effect 'lore' has been contradicted before.

as for unique outfits - one follows another, they are not mutually exclusive. stupid bulky helmets in a talk-heavy game is a no no, for obvious reasons.

[LuxDragon]

The shields that protected Joker is from the Normandy. I think giantic batteries can power shields fine.

The ones one hardsuits are different. Those shields are for the purposes of combat. You get shot, they fail, need a recharge. They are NOT for hazardous, vacuum, or extreme tempurature environments.

And the masks were stupid.

Also, heretic station was zero-g. That's why there was crap floating in the air. That's the heretic bodies floated after they died.

Remember ME 1 when Shepard and co. rode the elevator at the endgame and just jumped out and ran the length of the tower? Obviously, they got something to help adhere to surfaces.

Modifié par LuxDragon, 11 août 2011 - 09:26 .

[ViSeiRa]

Jebel Krong wrote...

that might still be hazardous but technology to deal with that by then could be anything, hell i've read several possible solutions in other sci-fi and the mass effect 'lore' has been contradicted before.

as for unique outfits - one follows another, they are not mutually exclusive. stupid bulky helmets in a talk-heavy game is a no no, for obvious reasons.

We're telling you our suspension of disbelief is a little narrow on that issue and you keep throwing excuses created by your own mind at us... what's your point?

What is true and logical can't be contradicted, that's what's going around with the outfits problem, which has likely been addressed in ME3, what does that tell you?

[Shotokanguy]

I always liked to imagine that hexagon pattern on Miranda's white outfit is part of the suit's function. Some sci fi gel crap that disperses kinetic energy throughout the entire suit to reduce the damage from projectile impacts. Seriously, just suspend your disbelief. I always assume that Shepard and Co.'s shields would rarely go down if their exploits were real.

Yeah, I would agree that her outfit looks a bit silly. I'd like to see an even better design for her appearance in ME3, something sensible but not nearly as ostentatious as a combat hardsuit.

But some of you take your defense of her, a video game character, to an almost personal level. There's this...self righteous tone to your posts that makes it seem a bit strange.

[Spanky Magoo]

Jebel Krong wrote...


i agree. i also found the unique outfits far more fitting than any generic or designed armour sets - including the AAP one which doesn't suit Miranda. at all. the camera angles could be... odd, the outfit isn't.

Agreed.

[srjepsen]

I'm gonna be pissed if they don't allow for customization, the option to have the armor or not should be up to the player. It is quite clear to me that Miranda does not want to hide from her looks, and the fact that ME is a futuristic sci-fi rpg, anything's possible, neither side should think their opinions are factual, because the ME universe is not realistic by any means, as for my Shepard, he'll continue to enjoy the sight of Miss Lawson in her "liquid latex" catsuit.