82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

LOL, no. It's just the opposite. I sent you the explanation in a PM - we've been at this long enough and it's a very old debate.

And yep, I also like Legion and Liara. And Mordin.

[Clayless]

Oh. Well to be fair she doesn't downright say it was a bad choice, she just expresses some doubts about it.

For example some characters just say "Man that was a bad choice I wouldn't have done that if I were you" but she just says she hopes we made the right choice and is slightly apprehensive.

Not all her choices are logical. Being part of Cerberus for example could be considered less logical than making allies with all races. Her refusal to sleep with anyone who has had any sort of disease in the past, no matter how trivial, can be considered illogical.

So she's not pure logic like Legion, and I don't mind that, as she's logical enough. Being apprehensive is fine, at least she's not slagging me off like half the other crew.

[jtav]

Here's thing about the base. We are given numerous indications that she is a Cerberus true believer and that she has no problems sacrificing lives for the mission. These indications are usually found in her main conversation trees or in scenes that everyone gets. Indications to the contrary are usually optional or generic dialogue common to all squadmates. So the transition from true believer to doubter is poorly supported and abrupt., which is what I mean by OOC. Writers "can" do anything they like. That doesn't mean it isn't bad writing. And considering media has a tradition of weakening previously strong women and making them act in ways they previously wouldn't have to increase appeal, I'm terrified for Miranda because I don't get many like her. I wanted an ambiguous capable operative who will move mountains for both her cause and loved ones. If I don't get that, I'm not interested.

[Sebby]

It would be pretty lame if Miranda is reduced to being swayed due to Shepard's magic penis/charisma. We have very few characters like Udina and Aria that don't worship Shepard as the center of the universe as it is....

[Spanky Magoo]

jtav wrote...

Here's thing about the base. We are given numerous indications that she is a Cerberus true believer and that she has no problems sacrificing lives for the mission. These indications are usually found in her main conversation trees or in scenes that everyone gets. Indications to the contrary are usually optional or generic dialogue common to all squadmates. So the transition from true believer to doubter is poorly supported and abrupt., which is what I mean by OOC. Writers "can" do anything they like. That doesn't mean it isn't bad writing. And considering media has a tradition of weakening previously strong women and making them act in ways they previously wouldn't have to increase appeal, I'm terrified for Miranda because I don't get many like her. I wanted an ambiguous capable operative who will move mountains for both her cause and loved ones. If I don't get that, I'm not interested.

I chalked it up to circumstance and the mission it self as to why she would waver from her path within the confines of the story. Sure they could have done alot of things and I guess I filled in the blanks myself. I actually thought it was a good twist at the end. I didnt expect her to resign and was pleasently surprised. Time will tell if the pro-cerberus fans get their story, but me personally I want to tear it apart piece by piece (including TIM) which if the whole indoctrinated thing plays out  I might just get to do it.

[Melra]

Seboist wrote...

It would be pretty lame if Miranda is reduced to being swayed due to Shepard's magic penis/charisma. We have very few characters like Udina and Aria that don't worship Shepard as the center of the universe as it is....

So taking note of someone is same as worship? I don't see how the devs could please you without having everyone be a batarian. Only people I can see worshipping Shepard right now are Tali and to some extent Liara.

[RAF1940]

Melrache wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It would be pretty lame if Miranda is reduced to being swayed due to Shepard's magic penis/charisma. We have very few characters like Udina and Aria that don't worship Shepard as the center of the universe as it is....

So taking note of someone is same as worship? I don't see how the devs could please you without having everyone be a batarian. Only people I can see worshipping Shepard right now are Tali and to some extent Liara.

He probably gained Conan O'Brien's support when he killed the batarians.

Just sayin'.

[flemm]

Does anyone think it likely that Miranda will be slightly different depending on decisions you have made. Not just in her trust (or lack of it) in Shepard, but in personality traits?

I would certainly expect so. Personally I would look forward to playing through the game and getting more Paragon or Renegade-oriented versions of Miranda depending on my choices.

I certainly don't mind the discussion at all, by the way, though if we went back to admiring Yvonne Strahovski's butt for a while, that would be ok, too

[Caihn]

I won't comment about the OOC thing because it won't end well, as always. I still think it's not OOC, and it's not going to change.

As for the difference between Miranda and the other squadmates during the CB discussion, I thought everybody already noticed the difference.
Miranda unlike the other squadmates, doesn't comment Shepard decision, she's talking to TIM. It's a discussion between Miranda and her boss, that's why she express her doubts whatever Shepard's decision.
The other squadmates react when they don't agree with Shepard, and they are talking to Shepard not to the Illusive Man.

I already said many times that it's her decision and only her decision, this has nothing to do with her loyalty. Shepard could have been injured and the other squadmates dead, an unloyal Miranda would have said the same thing to TIM when he gave her the order to stop Shepard.I just wished this scene doesn't happen in front of Shepard and an another squadmate, it's really not their buisness. But TIM forced her to make her decision sooner than expected.

It's TIM 's attitude and arguments which make Miranda resigns not Shepard's decision.

And for those who will say that my arguments are not valid because she doesn't resign when Shepard choose to keep the base : it's only because she has no reason to make this decision at this moment.

Modifié par Yannkee, 19 août 2011 - 02:04 .

[Sebby]

Melrache wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It would be pretty lame if Miranda is reduced to being swayed due to Shepard's magic penis/charisma. We have very few characters like Udina and Aria that don't worship Shepard as the center of the universe as it is....

So taking note of someone is same as worship? I don't see how the devs could please you without having everyone be a batarian. Only people I can see worshipping Shepard right now are Tali and to some extent Liara.

The majority of squadmates and crew follow Shepard around like lost puppy dogs. They rarely if ever voice any real objections or opinions and may as well be Loki mechs.

Look no further than Zaeed's LM where the magic charm option whips him into submission after costing him 20 years of his life or Jack staying for the mission when she has every reason to ditch Shepard at the next port stop.

Aria as a squadmate would be a breath of fresh air....

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
As for the difference between Miranda and the other squadmates during the CB discussion, I thought everybody already noticed the difference.
Miranda unlike the other squadmates, doesn't comment Shepard decision, she's talking to TIM. It's a discussion between Miranda and her boss, that's why she express her doubts whatever Shepard's decision.

That's not true. You don't get the betrayal line if you choose the middle or lower option. I can say with certainty for the middle option, since I always use it. I have tried the lower option with Miranda and Legion this morning and nobody comments. Miranda stays silent. Which means that she is really designed to say nothing and not just overridden by another's comment.

[Melra]

Seboist wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Seboist wrote...

It would be pretty lame if Miranda is reduced to being swayed due to Shepard's magic penis/charisma. We have very few characters like Udina and Aria that don't worship Shepard as the center of the universe as it is....

So taking note of someone is same as worship? I don't see how the devs could please you without having everyone be a batarian. Only people I can see worshipping Shepard right now are Tali and to some extent Liara.

The majority of squadmates and crew follow Shepard around like lost puppy dogs. They rarely if ever voice any real objections or opinions and may as well be Loki mechs.

Look no further than Zaeed's LM where the magic charm option whips him into submission after costing him 20 years of his life or Jack staying for the mission when she has every reason to ditch Shepard at the next port stop.

Aria as a squadmate would be a breath of fresh air....

Let's hope she's not. She was boring as hell to me. All I need is Miri.

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

Here's thing about the base. We are given numerous indications that she is a Cerberus true believer and that she has no problems sacrificing lives for the mission. These indications are usually found in her main conversation trees or in scenes that everyone gets. Indications to the contrary are usually optional or generic dialogue common to all squadmates. So the transition from true believer to doubter is poorly supported and abrupt., which is what I mean by OOC. Writers "can" do anything they like. That doesn't mean it isn't bad writing. And considering media has a tradition of weakening previously strong women and making them act in ways they previously wouldn't have to increase appeal, I'm terrified for Miranda because I don't get many like her. I wanted an ambiguous capable operative who will move mountains for both her cause and loved ones. If I don't get that, I'm not interested.

I take exception to the idea that not wanting to use the base "weakens" her.

[The Elder King]

Seboist wrote...


The majority of squadmates and crew follow Shepard around like lost puppy dogs. They rarely if ever voice any real objections or opinions and may as well be Loki mechs.

Look no further than Zaeed's LM where the magic charm option whips him into submission after costing him 20 years of his life or Jack staying for the mission when she has every reason to ditch Shepard at the next port stop.

Aria as a squadmate would be a breath of fresh air....

Do you mean during Jack and Miranda's "fight" if Shepard sides with Miranda?
Anyway, I don't think Aria will be a squadmate. She doesn't seem to me as the type that follows orders from another person.

Modifié par hhh89, 19 août 2011 - 02:51 .

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

Yannkee wrote...

I won't comment about the OOC thing because it won't end well, as always. I still think it's not OOC, and it's not going to change.

As for the difference between Miranda and the other squadmates during the CB discussion, I thought everybody already noticed the difference.
Miranda unlike the other squadmates, doesn't comment Shepard decision, she's talking to TIM. It's a discussion between Miranda and her boss, that's why she express her doubts whatever Shepard's decision.
The other squadmates react when they don't agree with Shepard, and they are talking to Shepard not to the Illusive Man.

I already said many times that it's her decision and only her decision, this has nothing to do with her loyalty. Shepard could have been injured and the other squadmates dead, an unloyal Miranda would have said the same thing to TIM when he gave her the order to stop Shepard.I just wished this scene doesn't happen in front of Shepard and an another squadmate, it's really not their buisness. But TIM forced her to make her decision sooner than expected.

It's TIM 's attitude and arguments which make Miranda resigns not Shepard's decision.

And for those who will say that my arguments are not valid because she doesn't resign when Shepard choose to keep the base : it's only because she has no reason to make this decision at this moment.

Claps for you!

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...


The majority of squadmates and crew follow Shepard around like lost puppy dogs. They rarely if ever voice any real objections or opinions and may as well be Loki mechs.

Look no further than Zaeed's LM where the magic charm option whips him into submission after costing him 20 years of his life or Jack staying for the mission when she has every reason to ditch Shepard at the next port stop.

Aria as a squadmate would be a breath of fresh air....

Do you mean during Jack and Miranda's "fight" if Shepard sides with Miranda?
Anyway, I don't think Aria will be a squadmate. She doesn't seem to me as the type that follows orders from another person.

Yeah, no. She's too hellbent on being Omega for her to ever leave the comfort of her little loft over Afterlife.

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

"Oh...pardon me, Commander."

[nitefyre410]

hhh89 wrote...

Seboist wrote...


The majority of squadmates and crew follow Shepard around like lost puppy dogs. They rarely if ever voice any real objections or opinions and may as well be Loki mechs.

Look no further than Zaeed's LM where the magic charm option whips him into submission after costing him 20 years of his life or Jack staying for the mission when she has every reason to ditch Shepard at the next port stop.

Aria as a squadmate would be a breath of fresh air....

Do you mean during Jack and Miranda's "fight" if Shepard sides with Miranda?
Anyway, I don't think Aria will be a squadmate. She doesn't seem to me as the type that follows orders from another person.

 

That "fight" pissed me off on so many levels that its hard to discribe - it  was in my Opinion only there to make the two  Human Female love interest fight each other and was handle poorly and did nothing to handle  Jack getting closer or Miranda coming to terms with some of the crap Cerebus has done. The whole thing could have been written alot better.  

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
As for the difference between Miranda and the other squadmates during the CB discussion, I thought everybody already noticed the difference.
Miranda unlike the other squadmates, doesn't comment Shepard decision, she's talking to TIM. It's a discussion between Miranda and her boss, that's why she express her doubts whatever Shepard's decision.

That's not true. You don't get the betrayal line if you choose the middle or lower option. I can say with certainty for the middle option, since I always use it. I have tried the lower option with Miranda and Legion this morning and nobody comments. Miranda stays silent. Which means that she is really designed to say nothing and not just overridden by another's comment.

If you pick the two other choices TIM won't say that he want to use the base, but that he want to use the technology they could find, and Miranda is not so reluctant about this (but I think she knows what he really want to do, that's why she resign if you decide to destroy the base after this). But since he doesn't say that he want to use the base, she can't say the betrayal line.

So, yes she doesn't express her doubts everytime, but this has nothing to do with Shepard's decision to destroy or not the base.
It's because TIM doesn't say the same arguments to convice Shepard.

Modifié par Yannkee, 19 août 2011 - 03:15 .

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

Same here, it's very likely if you chose the path to have Miranda resign, TIM will work to have some sort of grasp over her. :/

Modifié par LexieTheT-Rexy, 19 août 2011 - 03:22 .

[nitefyre410]

LexieTheT-Rexy wrote...

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

Same here, it's very likely if you chose the path to have Miranda resign, TIM will work to have some sort of grasp over her. :/

 


That he may try but I can wait see Miranda  actually get pissed off about... like REALLY  pissed.  Cause i always get the notion that one thing you don't mess with would be her little sister.    I think TIM would actually bit off more than he can chew if does that.

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

nitefyre410 wrote...

LexieTheT-Rexy wrote...

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

Same here, it's very likely if you chose the path to have Miranda resign, TIM will work to have some sort of grasp over her. :/

 


That he may try but I can wait see Miranda  actually get pissed off about... like REALLY  pissed.  Cause i always get the notion that one thing you don't mess with would be her little sister.    I think TIM would actually bit off more than he can chew if does that.

Ohhh yeah. I can just see her in her loyalty mission (if such things cross over into ME3 once more and if she is a squadmate), just tearing through Cerberus with fire in her eyes and a bullet ready for TIM. XD Though, that may not happen, considering that would be a very substantial thing to happen in the game, BUT I CAN STILL SEE IT!

[Caihn]

nitefyre410 wrote...

LexieTheT-Rexy wrote...

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

Same here, it's very likely if you chose the path to have Miranda resign, TIM will work to have some sort of grasp over her. :/

 


That he may try but I can wait see Miranda  actually get pissed off about... like REALLY  pissed.  Cause i always get the notion that one thing you don't mess with would be her little sister.    I think TIM would actually bit off more than he can chew if does that.

I like the idea of a Miranda really pissed off. It's the best thing that could happen to Shepard for his fight against Cerberus.

[LexieTheT-Rexy]

Hahaha, I just found this youtu.be/ZTFdarn8k18

This made me LOL.

[Caihn]

LexieTheT-Rexy wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

LexieTheT-Rexy wrote...

Honestly I want to see how the Miranda - TIM  - Oriana  situation is going to be handled ... Will  TIM  use Oriana as a leash to  drag Miranda back into the fold.

Same here, it's very likely if you chose the path to have Miranda resign, TIM will work to have some sort of grasp over her. :/

 


That he may try but I can wait see Miranda  actually get pissed off about... like REALLY  pissed.  Cause i always get the notion that one thing you don't mess with would be her little sister.    I think TIM would actually bit off more than he can chew if does that.

Ohhh yeah. I can just see her in her loyalty mission (if such things cross over into ME3 once more and if she is a squadmate), just tearing through Cerberus with fire in her eyes and a bullet ready for TIM. XD Though, that may not happen, considering that would be a very substantial thing to happen in the game, BUT I CAN STILL SEE IT!

I don't think it will happen, there won't be loyalty missions for squadmates in ME3. But I can imagine a killing spree when Shepard and Miranda will fight Cerberus forces.