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"I'll always want you in my life." Miranda Lawson in Mass Effect 3


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#10176
Ieldra

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flemm wrote...

So, Miranda can be proud/happy of knowying that what she does is for the greater good but still be uncapable of finding pride in her accomplishments because of her genetic engineering.


That's basically how I interpreted it as well. I actually think that the confidence vs. self-esteem distinction, mentioned somewhere above, is pretty accurate where Miranda is concerned. She's confident in her abilities, but not willing to give herself any credit for it. Like playing a video game on easy mode, I guess. You know you are going to win, but you don't get that much satisfaction out of it.

I know I've said that often before, but still: I think being genetically engineered by itself should not be enough to undermined your self-esteem. After all, every single human is limited, some more, some less, by his/her genetic makeup. That this time a human made the genetic template instead of random chance wouldn't make a difference, if there wasn't any other influence that undermined self-esteem. Self-esteem is pretty much an achievement of upbringing - you are made to value yourself or you are denied it. Miranda is no different, and I think that her treatment at the hand of her father was the primary effect. As I said, usually she's a clear thinker, only here she's blinded.

Her genetic engineering may bring home the existential problems everyone struggles with more sharply, but her self-esteem problems are caused by something else.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2011 - 05:54 .


#10177
flemm

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I think being genetically engineered by itself should not be enough to undermined your self-esteem. After all, every single human is limited, some more, some less, by his/her genetic makeup.


I agree with you in the abstract, but Miranda has some issues seeing clearly on this. Which is fine, it's one of her flaws (all good characters have them). As Shepard says, "You give your father too much credit." Undoubtedly one could speculate there are some other psychological wounds in play, I agree with you there as well.

jtav wrote...

Apparently there were "I love Miranda"
stickers at Gamescon, per a post on the Kaidan thread.


Not gonna lie, I want one.

Modifié par flemm, 22 août 2011 - 05:59 .


#10178
wright1978

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Think Miranda's wounds are less a result of her being genetically engineered but more to do with father issues. He genetically engineered her and then no doubt reinforced in her time and time again that every achievement she made was in fact his because he made her.

#10179
flemm

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Very plausible.

#10180
Ieldra

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wright1978 wrote...
Think Miranda's wounds are less a result of her being genetically engineered but more to do with father issues. He genetically engineered her and then no doubt reinforced in her time and time again that every achievement she made was in fact his because he made her.

That's what I've been saying all this time. Can you imagine this, being told all the time how perfect you are genetically and how that's why you're the best in everything? Add that she was "made to meet impossible demands" and likely never got any love for it, just, as I wrote in a fanfic, "a distant nod - and the next task."

#10181
Td1984

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Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I think Miranda is relatively safe from being indoctrinated. VS and Liara not so much.

Why would you think that? I hope you're right, but I can't see a reason to say is relatively safe but not the others.


Meta-reasoing. Do you think they'd use something as dramatic as "indoctrinated squad member" on someone who isn't alive in all games? Besides it should theoreticakky hurt more to lose someone you've known since ME1.

That reasoning only holds if the premise is "indoctrinate someone". But what if it's part of a certain character's story arc. I'd say it would more likely be an element of Miranda's story arc than an element of another's. Which makes me worry since I do not want it to be.

BTW, playing another ME1 game. Some of the sidequests are really tedious. "Geth incursions." Sometimes I curse myself for being such a completionist, but the game doesn't feel done if I don't do everything.

Yeah, the Geth Incursions side mission is irrritating. As for the indoctrination thing, since BW is looking at all options for the romance resolutions, that means if your LI gets indoctrinated, there'll be a way to reverse it. Hope you spared Rana Thanoptis.

#10182
nitefyre410

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wright1978 wrote...

Think Miranda's wounds are less a result of her being genetically engineered but more to do with father issues. He genetically engineered her and then no doubt reinforced in her time and time again that every achievement she made was in fact his because he made her.

 

Totally agree with this -  It would be nice to have voice overed narrated flash back by Miranda  just get drive home how  a true dick her father was...

but I may be biased cause I'm big  a fan of using flashbacks. :bandit:

#10183
AstronautN7

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flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

Apparently there were "I love Miranda"
stickers at Gamescon, per a post on the Kaidan thread.


Not gonna lie, I want one.


I'd love to see the sticker too at least, too bad they weren't handed out at Comic Con.

#10184
Ieldra

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[quote]jtav wrote...
Apparently there were "I love Miranda"
stickers at Gamescon, per a post on the Kaidan thread.[/quote]
[/quote]
What?????????

And I missed them? Damn it....why?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2011 - 06:13 .


#10185
nitefyre410

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[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

[quote]jtav wrote...
Apparently there were "I love Miranda"
stickers at Gamescon, per a post on the Kaidan thread.[/quote]
[/quote]
What?????????

And I missed them? Damn it....why?

[/quote] 


:crying:   - this all and I'm an ocean away so  :crying:x2

#10186
Caihn

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flemm wrote...

Not gonna lie, I want one.


Go post a request in the Bioware store forum ;)
I'm sure many will approve.

#10187
flemm

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I will look into it, and would invite anyone more familiar with the process than I to do the same :happy:

#10188
Ieldra

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Apparently there were "I love Miranda"
stickers at Gamescon, per a post on the Kaidan thread.

What?????????

And I missed them? Damn it....why?

 
:crying:   - this all and I'm an ocean away so  :crying:x2

Had I known it advance, I would've procured a few and sent them to selected fans.

But here's the thing: if they singled out Miranda for a sticker (the only other character with a sticker was Shepard), that is a VERY GOOD sign for her presence in ME3, isn't it?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2011 - 06:19 .


#10189
nitefyre410

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Ieldra2 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

*snip *

:crying:   - this all and I'm an ocean away so  :crying:x2


Had I known it advance, I would've procured a few and sent them to selected fans.

But here's the thing: if they singled out Miranda for a sticker (the only other character with a sticker was Shepard), that is a VERY GOOD sign for her presence in ME3, isn't it?



Yes  :happy: x10

Modifié par nitefyre410, 22 août 2011 - 06:23 .


#10190
flemm

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I'll grasp at any available straws at this point lol.

Modifié par flemm, 30 novembre 2013 - 05:18 .


#10191
Dr. Doctor

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I get the feeling that Mr. Lawson wasn't exactly tolerant of  what he considered to be "failure" on Miranda's part. Considering that Miranda remarks that she was "the first one he kept" she may have been considered replacable by her father in the event that he was dissatisfied with her.

I always get the feeling that Miranda's "Clearly you were a mistake" line is her channeling her father. And for some reason every time I try to think of what Mr. Lawson would look like Rupert Murdoch just comes to mind.

#10192
nitefyre410

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Dr. Doctor wrote...

I get the feeling that Mr. Lawson wasn't exactly tolerant of  what he considered to be "failure" on Miranda's part. Considering that Miranda remarks that she was "the first one he kept" she may have been considered replacable by her father in the event that he was dissatisfied with her.

I always get the feeling that Miranda's "Clearly you were a mistake" line is her channeling her father. And for some reason every time I try to think of what Mr. Lawson would look like Rupert Murdoch just comes to mind.

 


I don't know I always thought him Looking like  Gendo Hikari from Neon Genesis  Evangelion  especial like him from the first make of the series.

Little Miri going into his office and seeing that disaproving  glaring  from being his some big desk...

Yeah...  My Shepard is going to have words with this man  ineed.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 22 août 2011 - 07:03 .


#10193
jtav

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Question: Is the romance trigger "It's nice to see you smile" after the LM or does it come in the next convo? Trying to see how long I can postpone my decision.

#10194
nitefyre410

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jtav wrote...

Question: Is the romance trigger "It's nice to see you smile" after the LM or does it come in the next convo? Trying to see how long I can postpone my decision.

 

Yes thats the Romance Trigger

#10195
Ieldra

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nitefyre410 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
I get the feeling that Mr. Lawson wasn't exactly tolerant of  what he considered to be "failure" on Miranda's part. Considering that Miranda remarks that she was "the first one he kept" she may have been considered replacable by her father in the event that he was dissatisfied with her.

I always get the feeling that Miranda's "Clearly you were a mistake" line is her channeling her father. And for some reason every time I try to think of what Mr. Lawson would look like Rupert Murdoch just comes to mind.

 


I don't know I always thought him Looking like  Gendo Hikari from Neon Genesis  Evangelion  especial like him from the first make of the series.

Little Miri going into his office and seeing that disaproving  glaring  from being his some big desk...

Yeah...  My Shepard is going to have words with this man  ineed.

Cyrus Shepard will help Miranda reach him should they get the opportunity. The rest is up to her. Should she require his assistance he'll be happy to provide it, but what to do with or about him is her decision.

Hmm...I wonder. The Bioware people have said they want to wrap up all the loose ends. This might be one of them.

#10196
MisterJB

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jtav wrote...

Question: Is the romance trigger "It's nice to see you smile" after the LM or does it come in the next convo? Trying to see how long I can postpone my decision.

The trigger happens in the "Kiss" conversation. You can choose "Glad I could help" after her LM and it won't affect the romance in the sligthest.
In ME2, at least*crosses fingers*.

edit: I too think that Mr. Lawson is a loose end we should knot.
Posted Image

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 août 2011 - 07:41 .


#10197
Ieldra

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MisterJB wrote...

jtav wrote...

Question: Is the romance trigger "It's nice to see you smile" after the LM or does it come in the next convo? Trying to see how long I can postpone my decision.

The trigger happens in the "Kiss" conversation. You can choose "Glad I could help" after her LM and it won't affect the romance in the sligthest.

No, I don't think that's true. If I recall correctly, choosing "I'm glad I could help" closes off the romance. I know for certain you won't get the scene with Miranda touching Shepard's chest.

Edit:
And I am unable to kill the Rachni queen. *grumble*. It's a character flaw, I tell you.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2011 - 08:13 .


#10198
MisterJB

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Ieldra2 wrote...
No, I don't think that's true. If I recall correctly, choosing "I'm glad I could help" closes off the romance. I know for certain you won't get the scene with Miranda touching Shepard's chest.

True but you don't actually need that scene in order for the romance to work. I checked.

#10199
jtav

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Oh, you guys still want screenshots? I just finished my ME1 game?

#10200
Shotokanguy

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Miranda's (and, in a way, Grunt's) situation is kinda hard to grasp completely, since it's not something that can happen in our world. That's a good example of my dissatisfaction with how much time devoted to character interaction there was in ME2. I would've liked to get a bit more info on Miranda's upbringing and what sort of baggage she was carrying.

I can't really see it being relevant in ME3, and as a result, I really couldn't care less about her father. If I were Shepard, my thoughts on him would pretty much be "I don't give a rat's ass about that guy."

Not that I'm opposed to meeting him if there's a good story reason. We probably should, actually.