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[flemm]

Melrache wrote...

Morrigan is one of most annoying and boring BW characters, I don't understand how people even compare her to Miranda.

I like Morrigan a lot, actually, but I don't think they're very similar. (Miranda is more interesting imo, but I do like Morrigan.)

Spanky Magoo wrote...


This video gives me a little more hope starting around 2:04

Having replayed LotSB last night, I will say this: being a "permanent" squad member may be less important than we tend to think, based on previous games. I expect a lot more LotSB-style missions, where a particular squad member is really the protagonist for a while, has a lot of cool dialogue and interaction, and ends up with some type of big status change or storyline resolution, etc.

That DLC bodes really well for ME3, I think.

Modifié par flemm, 30 novembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[jtav]

And LOTSB style Miranda would be perfectly fine by me.

[flemm]

Well, I guess that's partly where TIW idea gains some validity, but I doubt that Bioware will repeat themselves like that, and I rather hope they don't. Not that this is a horrible idea for Miranda or anything, but it's not high on my list.

That said, LotSB just generally bodes well, given the quality of the story that is told within a single mission, with some good fights, too. Where Miranda is concerned, I think there will be significantly more than one mission. But even for less popular/central characters, where there is only one mission, it could still be pretty damn satisfying with that level of quality.

Also, re: LotSB, they've basically set Liara/Miranda/Shepard up as a primary love triangle for the third installment. Not that there won't be a lot of other love interests out there, but there are going to be a lot of games where that is the central romantic tension.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 01:12 .

[raziel1980]

flemm wrote...

Well, I guess that's partly where TIW idea gains some validity, but I doubt that Bioware will repeat themselves like that, and I rather hope they don't. Not that this is a horrible idea for Miranda or anything, but it's not high on my list.

That said, LotSB just generally bodes well, given the quality of the story that is told within a single mission, with some good fights, too. Where Miranda is concerned, I think there will be significantly more than one mission. But even for less popular/central characters, where there is only one mission, it could still be pretty damn satisfying with that level of quality.

Also, re: LotSB, they've basically set Liara/Miranda/Shepard up as a primary love triangle for the third installment. Not that there won't be a lot of other love interests out there, but there are going to be a lot of games where that is the central romantic tension.

I can count atleast 2 playthroughs I've done so far in ME 2 where that is the case...one bacuase I romanced Liara in ME ! n heavily flirted with Miri in ME 2( just didn't advance on to the final romance stage before the SM. Another which I only romanced Miri...for me Liara is always my second choice...as Jack, Tali n Ash were never really in the equation...not to mention those 2 in the party together is like 'Death Squad 3' for me...since they work well together n can be interchangable with another character like Garrus.

Modifié par raziel1980, 23 août 2011 - 01:25 .

[jtav]

I'm not sure whether I should be looking forward to that particular bit of romantic tension or not. I'm about ready for Shepard to run off with Tali so I can avoid it.

[flemm]

On a side note, they both have a role in bringing Shepard back, given the info in LotSB, and apparently they met around the time Shepard's corpse was recovered, prior to Shepard meeting Miranda, so that is another interesting link between them.

Modifié par flemm, 30 novembre 2013 - 05:15 .

[jtav]

flemm, there's something you need to know about me. I ship Liara/Miranda. I have limited investment in who Shepard ends up with.

[flemm]

Oh ok, cool, thanks for letting me know.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 01:37 .

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...


Having replayed LotSB last night, I will say this: being a "permanent" squad member may be less important than we tend to think, based on previous games. I expect a lot more LotSB-style missions, where a particular squad member is really the protagonist for a while, has a lot of cool dialogue and interaction, and ends up with some type of big status change or storyline resolution, etc.

That DLC bodes really well for ME3, I think.

Something like LotSB for Miranda would be a real deception for me. It's really too short for any character development. No interactions and no dialogues during other missions. No thanks, I don't want to have Miranda as a temporary squadmates during few missions.
And I hate the fact that Miranda would be there only for the Cerberus plot, she deserves better than that.

[flemm]

And I hate the fact that Miranda would be there only for the Cerberus plot, she deserves better than that.

Yeah, if there were only one mission for Miranda, big disappointment, obviously. But, like I say, I think Miranda will have a bigger role than that. What I was saying was more that this is a really strong story within a single mission, so if a lot of ME3 is on that level, it will likely be very good. 

And, especially, the main squad member of the mission is the protagonist, not just a follower. I think that is an important point.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 01:43 .

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

And I hate the fact that Miranda would be there only for the Cerberus plot, she deserves better than that.

Yeah, if there were only one mission for Miranda, big disappointment, obviously. But, like I say, I think Miranda will have a bigger role than that. What I was saying was more that this is a really strong story within a single mission, so if a lot of ME3 is on that level, it will likely be very good. 

And, especially, the main squad member of the mission is the protagonist, not just a follower. I think that is an important point.

I like the style of LotSB missions. And I hope to see something like that for some characters in ME3. But for Miranda, I also want the possibility to have her at my side during other missions.
I want to see Miranda during most of the epic moments of the game, not just during some missions about Cerberus.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
Having replayed LotSB last night, I will say this: being a "permanent" squad member may be less important than we tend to think, based on previous games. I expect a lot more LotSB-style missions, where a particular squad member is really the protagonist for a while, has a lot of cool dialogue and interaction, and ends up with some type of big status change or storyline resolution, etc.

The problem with this is that you end up with a character not participating in party banter, not making comments on important missions, and thus, generally not being present most of the time. Which is why this would be the absolute minimum of the acceptable for me, and only if Miranda's absence is justified by her doing extraordinary stuff elsewhere.

Not that Miranda had a major presence on many missions of ME2, but we had Lazarus and Freedom's Progress, then her LM, her comments on missions of the main storyline and the conversations on the Normandy. And to add to that, if they improve party banter for the five confirmed characters it will make Miranda's absence even more jarring.

Acceptable? Perhaps. Perfectly fine? No way.

[nitefyre410]

I don't know I'm trying to keep Hype levels low so when march comes and I finish the game I'm not overly disappointed about the plot and how it plays out..

If there is here is going to be romantic tension I don't want it played out like a 13 middle school drama...

[Caihn]

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 août 2011 - 02:34 .

[Td1984]

Seboist wrote...

Miranda's abrupt "resignation" from Cerberus made her lose a lot of points with me or rather the writers' less than stellar characterization of her did.

If she was a consistent Cerberus loyalist "space Morrigan" she may have cracked my top three favorite ME2 squadmates list instead of taking the number 4 or 5 spot.

Haha! "Space Morrigan". So I wasn't off when I popped in DA:O and felt that Morrigan reminded me a bit of Miri (and I also decided to romance her before I got stuck).

[flemm]

Acceptable? Perhaps. Perfectly fine? No way.

I was speaking in more general terms about the intensity of the mission as far as the combination of combat and story elements. Where Miranda specifically is concerned, obviously, there should be a lot more than a single mission of that type.

I want her on the squad from beginning to end, ideally.

Vertigo, You're our resident twitter expert, Do you know if
Casey has seen the thread size recently? His reaction back on page 65
was intrigueing; I'm curious as to what he'd think of it now. I'd check
myself, but I avoid Social Networks like the plague. (I use BSN strictly as a forum, So it doesn't count!) [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Yeah, somebody who is on twitter should really send this thread his way, just to share the love

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 03:04 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Acceptable? Perhaps. Perfectly fine? No way.

I was speaking in more general terms about the intensity of the mission as far as the combination of combat and story elements. Where Miranda specifically is concerned, obviously, there should be a lot more than a single mission of that type.

I want her on the squad from beginning to end, ideally.

I'm really torn. On one hand, I want her to have agency independently from Shepard, which means that she must do her own thing and generally be more than Shepard's follower. That would also mean she's absent for significant parts of the game. On the other hand, I want her with me.... 

I agree that LotSB was very good and would like to see more missions in that style. Minus the game teleporting me to places, that won't do at all.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2011 - 03:12 .

[jtav]

Oh, by the way. Ieldra, were there any screenshots you particularly wanted? I'm doing a bit more FRAPS-ing.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm not sure whether I should be looking forward to that particular bit of romantic tension or not. I'm about ready for Shepard to run off with Tali so I can avoid it.

Admit it, you just want to fob your Shepard off with Tali so that your way is free to imagine Miranda and Liara together.....

Shepard deserves better. Though maybe not yours, perhaps this is one of your disagreeable ones.

As for screenshots:
I don't have a good one of Miranda's face before a star-covered space (you know which one) where she's wearing a high-res outfit, and generally lately I've made too many screenshots of her in armor, I have almost none with her in a high-res-modded loyalty outfit.
But don't let it turn into work. I'll be doing another ME2 playthrough when I brought my replayed Shepard through ME1. That's early enough.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2011 - 03:20 .

[flemm]

I'm really torn. On one hand, I want her to have agency independently from Shepard, which means that she must do her own thing and generally be more than Shepard's follower. That would also mean she's absent for significant parts of the game. On the other hand, I want her with me....

I know the feeling. That's partly what's encouraging about LotSB, though. Perhaps I'm not doing a very good job of explaining what I mean, but, moreso even than in many of the loyalty missions, it feels like Shephard is not the main character of this mission. He has some agency, but Liara has a lot. It almost feels like you are following her around.

Obviously, Miranda is not going to have that level of agency on every mission, but on some missions, she should and quite possibly will.

Modifié par flemm, 30 novembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[nitefyre410]

Td1984 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Miranda's abrupt "resignation" from Cerberus made her lose a lot of points with me or rather the writers' less than stellar characterization of her did.

If she was a consistent Cerberus loyalist "space Morrigan" she may have cracked my top three favorite ME2 squadmates list instead of taking the number 4 or 5 spot.

Haha! "Space Morrigan". So I wasn't off when I popped in DA:O and felt that Morrigan reminded me a bit of Miri (and I also decided to romance her before I got stuck).

 

I don't know about the  Morrigan comparison  -  Miranda Always seemed for Aloof(not that its bad to aloof)  than Morrigan.  Morrigan at times  seemed to go out of her way just be to snarky were  Miranda was "I'm  the XO and you going to hear what I have to  say" when needed.  

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

I'm really torn. On one hand, I want her to have agency independently from Shepard, which means that she must do her own thing and generally be more than Shepard's follower. That would also mean she's absent for significant parts of the game. On the other hand, I want her with me....

I know the feeling. That's partly what's encouraging about LotSB, though. Perhaps I'm not doing a very good job of explaining what I mean, but, moreso even than in many of the loyalty missions, it feels like Shephard is not the main character of this mission. He has some agency, but Liara has a lot. It almost feels like you are following her around.

Obviously, Miranda is not going to have that level of agency on every mission, but on some missions, she should and quite possibly will. So, it is encouraging. Where will she be the rest of the time? Well, hopefully on my squad. We'll see.

That's not quite what I meant. I want Miranda to have agency independently from Shepard in things affecting the big picture. I want her to make how own contributions to the "war effort", which would by necessity have to be mostly off-screen. For anything else she wouldn't have to be absent. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2011 - 03:22 .

[nitefyre410]

flemm wrote...

I'm really torn. On one hand, I want her to have agency independently from Shepard, which means that she must do her own thing and generally be more than Shepard's follower. That would also mean she's absent for significant parts of the game. On the other hand, I want her with me....

I know the feeling. That's partly what's encouraging about LotSB, though. Perhaps I'm not doing a very good job of explaining what I mean, but, moreso even than in many of the loyalty missions, it feels like Shephard is not the main character of this mission. He has some agency, but Liara has a lot. It almost feels like you are following her around.

Obviously, Miranda is not going to have that level of agency on every mission, but on some missions, she should and quite possibly will. So, it is encouraging. Where will she be the rest of the time? Well, hopefully on my squad. We'll see.

 

What  I liked about LotSB  was that   Shepard and Liara worked more as a team - instead of the usually Shepard being the front man all the times.  Instead of what it usually feels  - Shepards and his attack drones.  

[flemm]

That's not quite what I meant. I want Miranda to have agency independently from Shepard in things affecting the big picture. I want her to make how own contributions to the "war effort", which would by necessity have to be mostly off-screen. For anything else she wouldn't have to be absent. 

That's also covered in LotSB, though, given that Liara will now be able to use the SB's resources to assist in the war effort. I could see something like this potentially happening with Miranda and Cerberus, if you play your cards right.

And Liara will be on the squad at least part of the time as well, so the two are not necessarily contradictory. Obviously, where Liara is concerned, she cannot be dead, so there is that. But as an overall model for how to increase the agency of the squad members, it was promising.

What  I liked about LotSB  was that   Shepard and Liara
worked more as a team - instead of the usually Shepard being the front
man all the times.  Instead of what it usually feels  - Shepards and his
attack drones.  

Agreed, that is another way of putting it. You get this to some degree already in the loyalty missions, but LotSB expanded on that, and the consequences were on a larger scale.

Modifié par flemm, 23 août 2011 - 03:27 .

[Vertigo_1]

flemm wrote...

ParadoxAuwrote...
Vertigo, You're our resident twitter expert, Do you know if Casey has seen the thread size recently? His reaction back on page 65 was intrigueing; I'm curious as to what he'd think of it now. I'd check myself, but I avoid Social Networks like the plague. (I use BSN strictly as a forum, So it doesn't count!) [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

Yeah, somebody who is on twitter should really send this thread his way, just to share the love

I'm the resident Twitter expert now?
Fine, I'll send this his way