82210 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Not sure about Miranda as science officer on Normandy. I don't think she fits well into the role of solitary researcher that Mordin inhabited in ME2. If it was something larger like her being in charge of a team of scientists, where she could exercise her leadership/organisational skills might work for me if she's not XO.

[JosephDucreux]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Just bought the first season of Chuck, and can I say, it shows Yvonne Strahovski's versatility as an actress that she can pull off two similar characters (on the surface) like Sarah Walker and Miranda Lawson, yet still make them such individuals.

And yeah, most of the Tali and Jack fans are fairly well mannered, and I get along with them. You just have to ignore guys like Tigerblood, he mad.

Yvonne Strahovski is one helluva actress. She has pretty much everything. She can do comedies, SRS BIZNEZZ shows, action flicks, romantic shows, hell, the list goes on and on...

Most of them are well mannered? Bro, you ain't seen most of the Tali/Jack community here...I've counter-trolled so many it's becoming a part time job. But there's the tali-groupies site, where all (or most) of the actually mature talimancers like DarkDanny and pepoluan are at. The rest are immature jackasses, like flash and tigerblood (not winning, sorry to break yer teenaged heart) and blitzkrieg. But then again, there are the select few Jackmancers and talimancers on this site that I'd love to have a barbecue and a few beers with.

[nitefyre410]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Just bought the first season of Chuck, and can I say, it shows Yvonne Strahovski's versatility as an actress that she can pull off two similar characters (on the surface) like Sarah Walker and Miranda Lawson, yet still make them such individuals.

And yeah, most of the Tali and Jack fans are fairly well mannered, and I get along with them. You just have to ignore guys like Tigerblood, he mad.

Yvonne Strahovski is one helluva actress. She has pretty much everything. She can do comedies, SRS BIZNEZZ shows, action flicks, romantic shows, hell, the list goes on and on...

Most of them are well mannered? Bro, you ain't seen most of the Tali/Jack community here...I've counter-trolled so many it's becoming a part time job. But there's the tali-groupies site, where all (or most) of the actually mature talimancers like DarkDanny and pepoluan are at. The rest are immature jackasses, like flash and tigerblood (not winning, sorry to break yer teenaged heart) and blitzkrieg. But then again, there are the select few Jackmancers and talimancers on this site that I'd love to have a barbecue and a few beers with.

 


Yeah    I know  I don't like the way most the Tali and Jack fans act on this site - which why I come into this thread to hang out. This has to be the most relaxed thread on the whole  BSN.   Some of  them are way too serious and  bash others characters way too much.

[Ieldra]

JosephDucreux wrote...
TBH, I think Miranda's too smart to try and recreate Cerberus. Sure, she'll use the resources and networks available, but she'd just form a completely different organisation from Cerberus. Why? Well, Cerberus is pretty much wanted in pieces by both the Alliance and the Council, and they're not going to stop hammering them just 'cause they had a change in management.

I've always said that the name will probably have to go as well as significant parts of the personnel. So no disagreement here. But you don't know the shape of the after-the-Reapers galaxy. Maybe the Council doesn't exist any more. Maby the Citadel gets destroyed. Maybe we have an all-human Council that would support Miranda's new organization even if they know that it consisted mostly of Cerberus operatives. 

Also, war is very, very profitable. The Alliance aren't going to have batarian slavers to smack around 24/7, so there needs to be a substitute for those slavers. Guess who it is? Yup, Cerberus are gonna have to get attacked by the Alliance just so the Alliance can continue its economic growth.

Here you're wrong. As a rule, war is incredibly costly. Just ask the US government. Countries have avoided wars for no better reason that it costs too much. Net profits from a war are rare, possible mainly if it's followed by colonization or exploitation of vanquished territories. 

[JosephDucreux]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I've always said that the name will probably have to go as well as significant parts of the personnel. So no disagreement here. But you don't know the shape of the after-the-Reapers galaxy. Maybe the Council doesn't exist any more. Maby the Citadel gets destroyed. Maybe we have an all-human Council that would support Miranda's new organization even if they know that it consisted mostly of Cerberus operatives.

Even then, nobody's gonna back down just because Cerberus is now known as 'The Organization Formerly Known As Cerberus'. Also, even if it's a all-human council, them aliens are gonna be baying for some Cerberus blood. And we all know how much ass-kissing the Council does, right? Hell, even if the Council says "Good luck guys, we ain't gonna bother ya no more, so go do yer own thing!" , the quarians, the turian Hierarchy, and possibly even the asaris aren't going to stop attacking Cerberus till it's as dead as a fossil.

Here you're wrong. As a rule, war is incredibly costly. Just ask the US government. Countries have avoided wars for no better reason that it costs too much. Net profits from a war are rare, possible mainly if it's followed by colonization or exploitation of vanquished territories.

Untrue. The government is controlled by the wealthy bankers, who only profit from wars. They profit as the government is forced to either buy military equipment from them, or borrow money from them (US Treasury). Thus, there's always going to be wars just for the money. Case in point: Vietnam. It was never meant to be won, only sustained. That's why it lasted a decade and ended in ultimate failure. You seem like a smart man, so I'd recommend you go watch the Zeitgeist series. Many things will start falling in place once you've watched it.

Okay, just so this remains on topic:

[jtav]

New fanfic: The Education of Miranda Lawson

Summary: Thessia was not at all the intellectual paradise Miranda hoped for after leaving Earth. But she may find her equal in the most unlikely of places. (Liara/Miranda)

No slash in this section, but I'm not ruling out continuation.

Modifié par jtav, 25 août 2011 - 01:23 .

[wright1978]

Makes me laugh but also cry when people confuse Conspiracy theories with the truth.

[Ieldra]

JosephDucreux wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I've always said that the name will probably have to go as well as significant parts of the personnel. So no disagreement here. But you don't know the shape of the after-the-Reapers galaxy. Maybe the Council doesn't exist any more. Maby the Citadel gets destroyed. Maybe we have an all-human Council that would support Miranda's new organization even if they know that it consisted mostly of Cerberus operatives.

Even then, nobody's gonna back down just because Cerberus is now known as 'The Organization Formerly Known As Cerberus'. Also, even if it's a all-human council, them aliens are gonna be baying for some Cerberus blood. And we all know how much ass-kissing the Council does, right? Hell, even if the Council says "Good luck guys, we ain't gonna bother ya no more, so go do yer own thing!" , the quarians, the turian Hierarchy, and possibly even the asaris aren't going to stop attacking Cerberus till it's as dead as a fossil.

All I'm saying is there are scenarios where keeping the organization intact would work and those where it wouldn't, and saying "it doesn't work" doesn't consider the possible changes in the political structure of the after-the-Reapers galaxy,(which I hope we will be able to make through our decisions). Apart from that, any human STG-like organization will draw the enmity of some species or other, that's just natural.

Besides, there is no fixed line between "just using Cerberus' data and resources for the new org" and "Cerberus in everything but name and the more extreme methods".

Here you're wrong. As a rule, war is incredibly costly. Just ask the US government. Countries have avoided wars for no better reason that it costs too much. Net profits from a war are rare, possible mainly if it's followed by colonization or exploitation of vanquished territories.

Untrue. The government is controlled by the wealthy bankers, who only profit from wars. They profit as the government is forced to either buy military equipment from them, or borrow money from them (US Treasury). Thus, there's always going to be wars just for the money. Case in point: Vietnam. It was never meant to be won, only sustained. That's why it lasted a decade and ended in ultimate failure. You seem like a smart man, so I'd recommend you go watch the Zeitgeist series. Many things will start falling in place once you've watched it.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory. You'd better back it up with some data (link?), and please of the kind that shows that things actually did happen that way, instead of the more usual "why else would they" phrasing. If we continue this, better through PMs...

[flemm]

Awesome pic, Joseph.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
New fanfic: The Education of Miranda Lawson

Summary: Thessia was not at all the intellectual paradise Miranda hoped for after leaving Earth. But she may find her equal in the most unlikely of places. (Liara/Miranda)

No slash in this section, but I'm not ruling out continuation.

Nice. I like how you portray both characters in this chapter - Liara masked as a mouse but with hidden passion, Miranda as a curious but somewhat arrogant and not exactly tactful teenager. This part of her history you created fits seamlessly into what we know of her.

BTW, one of my favorite science quotes is "In a sense, science only starts to get interesting where it ends" (Justus von Liebig, translated from the German by me), meaning that it's most interesting to work near the border where science meets speculation and draw new knowledge from the completely unknown. I like that curiosity in Miranda and Liara both. 

[flemm]

We've talked a lot about Miranda's connection to Cerberus recently, but the Lazurus project is another potentially big plot point that could involve Miranda pretty closely. If the research scientist idea pans out, I suppose it would be largely with that in mind.

It's perhaps somewhat interesting, from that point of view, that Liara is also tied into Shepard's resurrection (in LotSB).

Modifié par flemm, 25 août 2011 - 01:50 .

[Caihn]

wright1978 wrote...

Not sure about Miranda as science officer on Normandy. I don't think she fits well into the role of solitary researcher that Mordin inhabited in ME2. If it was something larger like her being in charge of a team of scientists, where she could exercise her leadership/organisational skills might work for me if she's not XO.

Why just scientists ? She was the director of a science project, she is not a scientist specialist like Wilson or Mordin. With her knowledge and her competence, she could supervise people in various domains, not just science. That's why I think the XO role fits her perfectly.
Also, considering the LotSB dossiers I don't think she really wants to continue in this domain. After the reaper war I would love to see Miranda leader of a spec ops or intelligence organization.

[wright1978]

Yannkee wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Not sure about Miranda as science officer on Normandy. I don't think she fits well into the role of solitary researcher that Mordin inhabited in ME2. If it was something larger like her being in charge of a team of scientists, where she could exercise her leadership/organisational skills might work for me if she's not XO.

Why just scientists ? She was the director of a science project, she is not a scientist specialist like Wilson or Mordin. With her knowledge and her competence, she could supervise people in various domains, not just science. That's why I think the XO role fits her perfectly.
Also, considering the LotSB dossiers I don't think she really wants to continue in this domain. After the reaper war I would love to see Miranda leader of a spec ops or intelligence organization.

Ideally i'd want her to remain as XO but as it appears we're going to have to be under the yoke of the alliance, that may not happen. Hence why if she had to take on a science role(for the duration of the game) i like you think she is better suited to supervision role.

On the XO issue it would be nice if Bioware would allow Shephard to choose from his permanent squaddies who takes on that role for ME3.

[enayasoul]

flemm wrote...

We've talked a lot about Miranda's connection to Cerberus recently, but the Lazurus project is another potentially big plot point that could involve Miranda pretty closely. If the research scientist idea pans out, I suppose it would be largely with that in mind.

It's perhaps somewhat interesting, from that point of view, that Liara is also tied into Shepard's resurrection (in LotSB).

And maybe another love triangle?  Can't remember where it was said maybe comic con but won't Shepards "Li's" all seek Shepard's affection if he romanced them?

Not that Shepard needs any more hero worshipping. 

How do you think Miranda will deal with that or would she at all?

[flemm]

On the XO issue it would be nice if Bioware would allow Shephard to choose from his permanent squaddies who takes on that role for ME3.

Just my immediate reaction, but I think that would be a bit of an overdeveloped feature for what amounts to a symbolic role (that could even be filled by a static NPC, as in ME1).

What's really significant is how much a given character is written into the story, present in tactical debates, etc. Miranda had a lot of that in ME2 because of her connection to Cerberus, but really the fact that she was "XO" per se wasn't all that important, except maybe in the final mission. She could just as easily have been the Cerberus Liaison Officer or whatever most of the time.

As with any character that might be dead, it's unlikely that Miranda will be written into the game as heavily as in ME2, regardless of what role she ends up playing. But until we know more about how the devs will handle adjustments for deceased characters, I don't think we can rule anything out.

And maybe another love triangle?

LotSB does tease that a bit, I think. For one thing, we now know that Liara and Miranda met prior to ME2, which is not a detail that has any real significance yet, but it might later. Also, they apparently met while working to bring back Shepard. Liara also has quite a bit to say about the Awesome Ms. Lawson. So some of this stuff could play out in ME3.

Modifié par flemm, 25 août 2011 - 02:52 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

enayasoul wrote...

flemm wrote...

We've talked a lot about Miranda's connection to Cerberus recently, but the Lazurus project is another potentially big plot point that could involve Miranda pretty closely. If the research scientist idea pans out, I suppose it would be largely with that in mind.

It's perhaps somewhat interesting, from that point of view, that Liara is also tied into Shepard's resurrection (in LotSB).

And maybe another love triangle?  Can't remember where it was said maybe comic con but won't Shepards "Li's" all seek Shepard's affection if he romanced them?

Not that Shepard needs any more hero worshipping. 

How do you think Miranda will deal with that or would she at all?

I don't think she would take part in that. It would be very immature and not really fit her character.
Either Shepard is commited to his relationship with her or he's not. If he can't make a decision, Miranda will make one for him. And it will be his loss.

[jtav]

Liara and Miranda working together has been known since Redemption. And she has no more to say about Miiranda than any other LI. They aren't setting up a triangle any more than any other possible combination, though this one makes Miranda look like pond scum if you don't do things in a specific order.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Liara and Miranda working together has been known since Redemption.

I had forgotten about the comic tbh.

And she has no more to say about Miiranda than any other LI.

Any romantic tension would have to adjust for the player's choices in any event, so yeah, there would be a version for other romance options as well, in all probability.

Modifié par flemm, 25 août 2011 - 03:09 .

[Caihn]

wright1978 wrote...

On the XO issue it would be nice if Bioware would allow Shephard to choose from his permanent squaddies who takes on that role for ME3.

I think that the change of XO could also be a consequence of a Virmire 2.0

Modifié par Yannkee, 25 août 2011 - 05:33 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yannkee wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

On the XO issue it would be nice if Bioware would allow Shephard to choose from his permanent squaddies who takes on that role for ME3.

I think that the change of XO could also be a consequence of a Virmire 2.0

Well, I choose Miri to save, but why recycle old decisions?

It's like saying TIM will become Saren 2.0.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 25 août 2011 - 05:48 .

[jtav]

The Normandy is an Alliance ship, staffed by Alliance crew. One of an XO's duties is liaison between CO and crew. To that crew, she is a former member of an organization to that wants them dead, and she wasn't there out of frustration with the Alliance. She was a true believer. You're just asking for things to go wrong.

[flemm]

Well, I'm not sure what Yannkee meant by Virmire 2.0, but I doubt a decision like that would come up immediately in the game. If Miranda is XO, then she will likely just be there as XO from the beginning, or shortly after you join her somewhere. And, if she's dead in a certain imported game, then she won't be there, and that player will just get whatever the fall back position is for "Miranda is dead" scenarios.

Re: the Normandy's crew, a lot of the personnel will likely be returning, so they are already used to Miranda. It's a consideration, maybe, but it would depend on what angle the writers took with it, tbh. They are not necessarily going to be trying to write all conflict out the narrative anyway.

Jacob, Donnelly and Gabe (as I recall), Joker, Chakwas, pretty much the whole crew served as part of the Aliiance at one point and then had no trouble at all with Miranda as XO. The VS would likely have a big issue with it, but that is the kind of conflict that the writers might want to exploit.

Modifié par flemm, 25 août 2011 - 06:00 .

[Skullheart]

If they let a Cerberus AI in the Normandy why cant we have our most trusted XO.

Modifié par Skullheart, 25 août 2011 - 06:22 .

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Well, I'm not sure what Yannkee meant by Virmire 2.0, but I doubt a decision like that would come up immediately in the game. If Miranda is XO, then she will likely just be there as XO from the beginning, or shortly after you join her somewhere. And, if she's dead in a certain imported game, then she won't be there, and that player will just get whatever the fall back position is for "Miranda is dead" scenarios.

I think this could happen in the middle of the game. Some characters should leave the ship while others join. I imagine some would leave the ship to do something else, but I also imagine a Virmire choice to replace a character by an another one.

Re: the Normandy's crew, a lot of the personnel will likely be returning, so they are already used to Miranda. It's a consideration, maybe, but it would depend on what angle the writers took with it, tbh. They are not necessarily going to be trying to write all conflict out the narrative anyway.

Jacob, Donnelly and Gabe (as I recall), Joker, Chakwas, pretty much the whole crew served as part of the Aliiance at one point and then had no trouble at all with Miranda as XO. The VS would likely have a big issue with it, but that is the kind of conflict that the writers might want to exploit.

this
the crew is not a full Alliance crew, some of them already respect her.
And for those who don't, they will meet the airlock 

[Ieldra]

About the XO discussion:

There is no compelling argument either way. Shepard can be pro-Cerberus, too, still they have to trust him because there's no alternative. We also don't know which kind of crew we'll get. The only speculation with any weight is that we'll have an Alliance XO at the start of ME3. After that, all bets are off. I can also see us getting a mixed crew or most of the old crew back - after all, people like Ken and Gabby had been Alliance and most of the old SR2 crew aren't Cerberus true believers. So really, anything goes here and it's quite possible we can switch our XOs somewhen in the game.

I am not particularly concerned about Miranda's role on the Normandy though. For me it's more important that she'll have an impact on the big picture. In fact, possibly I might prefer a different role for her, one that doesn't make her Shepard's follower but rather an ally.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 août 2011 - 06:21 .