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[Eyeshield21]

raziel1980 wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Just finished my "Perfect"(well, as perfect as it can get) playthrough of ME2 with Miranda as my love. Not sure what role she'll be playing in ME3, but I at least hope she'll be on the squad for while, since some will be full time, short time, and some just one mission.

I hope that if a certain character is your shep's LI then you will get the option to turn them into a full time companion whereas all the rest who are considered in-betweenies at this point are given part time status unless you decide otherwise.

some say that that would make more work for bioware and it's unlikely that they are doing that, but what i'm thinking is the 3 extra months they got for the game dev, this could possibly be that reason, but that's just me. Still, I agree I would like that to happen.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:24 .

[Lenimph]

MisterJB wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...
I always felt it would suit her better to be more proactive and sexually aggressive. I think she's a natural alpha and would take the lead in any relationship.

In a normal situation, maybe. However, we shouldn't forget that Miranda was in a "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere" mentality.

*delurks*
True... maybe she can drop this in ME3, and allow for more people to romance her. 
 

[Eyeshield21]

@MASSEFFECTfanforlife101
Nice bro.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Just finished my "Perfect"(well, as perfect as it can get) playthrough of ME2 with Miranda as my love. Not sure what role she'll be playing in ME3, but I at least hope she'll be on the squad for while, since some will be full time, short time, and some just one mission.

What do you mean "as perfect as it can get".... any issues we can help you out with?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri's wink and the rest of her perfection are tantalizing:wub:.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:28 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
*snip*

Dude too many... I dont want the Mods to get pissed and close this thread down.

[MisterJB]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Kolyat was recently confirmed, no?
So, I was thinking, maybe if we pester them enough at the next QA, we might hear something about Oriana.

Modifié par MisterJB, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:32 .

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Kolyat was recently confirmed, no?
So, I was thinking, maybe if we pester them enough at the next QA, we migth hear something about Oriana.

Nah, it was Feron.

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:32 .

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe Kolyat was recently confirmed, no?
So, I was thinking, maybe if we pester them enough at the next QA, we might hear something about Oriana.

Sounds like a plan!

EDIT: Sounds like we'll have to modify the plan! Still, good idea

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:33 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'm beginning to wonder if the line is less about using the Collector base stuff period, and more about using it for TIM; if giving TIM the keys to something like this in particular is the betrayal.

There's certainly some room for interpretation, but to me the exchange suggests that Miranda and TIM have discussed the possibility of keeping the base before, and that they were in agreement previously. But after actually seeing the base, the human harvesting going on there, and the Reaper embryo, Miranda changed her mind.

The betrayal, then, is of the tens of thousands of people that died there. Particularly if the tech were weaponized, turned on other species and thereby used to assure human dominance. Since that's exactly what TIM has in mind, especially that last part, there is a rational justification for the choice. But some don't like the line because that rationale is never really explicit, which makes the choice seem insufficiently pragmatic.

Basically, for me personally, I'm cool with it as long as Miranda elaborates on her reasoning and motivation in ME3. We need more information.

Oh no. I had hoped for no extended debate about this again. How the hell can you betray someone who's dead? That's complete bull****. It's totally sentimental, not even rational *moral* reasoning. You know, IÄ'd like to think where Miranda makes a moral decision, she would use valid moral reasoning. She's a mature and intelligent woman damn it, not some sentimental twit. 

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Oh no. I had hoped for no extended debate about this again. How the hell can you betray someone who's dead? That's complete bull****. It's totally sentimental, not even rational *moral* reasoning. You know, IÄ'd like to think where Miranda makes a moral decision, she would use valid moral reasoning. She's a mature and intelligent woman damn it, not some sentimental twit. 

I believe that you may be taking the expression too literally. The concern is not really the feelings of dead people. It's the question of whether or not the technology in question should be used to insure human dominance in the galaxy (read: whether it should be used to kill additional sentient beings).

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:41 .

[Eyeshield21]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Just finished my "Perfect"(well, as perfect as it can get) playthrough of ME2 with Miranda as my love. Not sure what role she'll be playing in ME3, but I at least hope she'll be on the squad for while, since some will be full time, short time, and some just one mission.

What do you mean "as perfect as it can get".... any issues we can help you out with?

you know how some missions in ME1 and 2, that you have to use Paragon or Renagade to do something right? well, in my past playthroughs I killed the jeong guy on Feros cause I didn't have enough paragon or renagade, or like trying to convince Lorick Quien to testify against Anolieas(cant spell the damn name), same problem, but I just wanted to be done with that playthrough to get to ME2, and I'm wondering if it will have that much of an impact in 3, since I wanted the strictly Paragon route.

[Xilizhra]

I think it's more likely to be betraying the living.

[naledgeborn]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Reducing a relationship to little more than a power struggle sounds like a very healthy approach.

Life is teeming with struggle. Either you're in it to win it or you're not. 

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

ubermensch007 wrote...

The Renegade Romance with Operative Miranda Lawson is far superior to the Paragon one

I respectfully disagree.

I usually choose a mixed path:
LM Debriefing
The scene leading to the kiss
And assuming that we can take up the romance again in ME3:
This
If not, then
This.

[Eyeshield21]

naledgeborn wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Reducing a relationship to little more than a power struggle sounds like a very healthy approach.

Life is teeming with struggle. Either you're in it to win it or you're not. 

True.
and may Miranda be a full squadmate in ME3!

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Oh no. I had hoped for no extended debate about this again. How the hell can you betray someone who's dead? That's complete bull****. It's totally sentimental, not even rational *moral* reasoning. You know, IÄ'd like to think where Miranda makes a moral decision, she would use valid moral reasoning. She's a mature and intelligent woman damn it, not some sentimental twit. 

I believe that you may be taking the expression too literally. The concern is not really the feelings of dead people. It's the question of whether or not the technology in question should be used to insure human dominance in the galaxy (read: whether it should be used to kill additional sentient beings).

"Using anything from this base seems like a betrayal" doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation, unfortunately. In particular, it does not specify that to use it for one purpose would be good and to use it for another would be bad. Also, human dominance is such an ambiguous term. Depending on what exactly it would entail, I can see Miranda not being opposed to it. After all, she does work for human advancement. That TIM's vision of that may be different from hers isn't exactly clear at this point. That only becomes clear once TIM utters his "They are one and the same" meaning humanity and Cerberus.

So I find myself unable to reconcile this line with Miranda. I think it was put in to make Miranda acceptable for Paragons with complete disregard of her character consistency.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 septembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Just finished my "Perfect"(well, as perfect as it can get) playthrough of ME2 with Miranda as my love. Not sure what role she'll be playing in ME3, but I at least hope she'll be on the squad for while, since some will be full time, short time, and some just one mission.

What do you mean "as perfect as it can get".... any issues we can help you out with?

you know how some missions in ME1 and 2, that you have to use Paragon or Renagade to do something right? well, in my past playthroughs I killed the jeong guy on Feros cause I didn't have enough paragon or renagade, or like trying to convince Lorick Quien to testify against Anolieas(cant spell the damn name), same problem, but I just wanted to be done with that playthrough to get to ME2, and I'm wondering if it will have that much of an impact in 3, since I wanted the strictly Paragon route.

Oh okay... I hear ya... for a second I thought you were having issues saving the crew and keeping all the squadmates alive in endgame of ME2... I had to explain to people on other threads how to make sure you achieve this

[Eyeshield21]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Just finished my "Perfect"(well, as perfect as it can get) playthrough of ME2 with Miranda as my love. Not sure what role she'll be playing in ME3, but I at least hope she'll be on the squad for while, since some will be full time, short time, and some just one mission.

What do you mean "as perfect as it can get".... any issues we can help you out with?

you know how some missions in ME1 and 2, that you have to use Paragon or Renagade to do something right? well, in my past playthroughs I killed the jeong guy on Feros cause I didn't have enough paragon or renagade, or like trying to convince Lorick Quien to testify against Anolieas(cant spell the damn name), same problem, but I just wanted to be done with that playthrough to get to ME2, and I'm wondering if it will have that much of an impact in 3, since I wanted the strictly Paragon route.

Oh okay... I hear ya... for a second I thought you were having issues saving the crew and keeping all the squadmates alive in endgame of ME2... I had to explain to people on other threads how to make sure you achieve this

that and I hope Miranda has casual clothes if she is a fulltime or longtime squadmate.

[primoULTIMO]

jreezy wrote...

That one is kind of funny for some reason.

Haha, it's hilarious because she keeps on pouring endless amount of bullets into that guy to the extent where it becomes ridiculous; extreme overkill!

In my opinion the paragon route was better (I'm including the 'hug'/ 'Don't know, don't care' scene as part of it since it was neutral). I liked the way she lightens up and how her character develops. My only problem with that route is that that "Using anything from this base seems like a betrayal" scene seemed OFC to me. Didn't really bother me that much though, but that rational mentality seemed to have given way to sentimentalism and I liked her 'buisness' attitude. However this is the only bleemish to that romance path.

Modifié par primoULTIMO, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
So I find myself unable to reconcile this line with Miranda. I think it was put in to make Miranda acceptable for Paragons with complete disregard of her character consistency.

I understand your point of view, but I don't think I really agree. Or, I should say, I agree that we need more information and that Miranda's motivation needs to be further explored in ME3. But I don't agree that it's hard to reconcile this scene with Miranda as we know the character.

One of the things that makes Miranda interesting is that she is ruthless, but within certain bounds. This is in evidence throughout the game. Witness her insistence that the cell running experiments on Jack was "not really Cerberus." And her rationalisations of certain Cerberus activities in conversation with Shepard: We stopped experimenting on the Rachni as soon as we learned they were sentient. Another project was a "tragic mistake," etc.

So, she has a somewhat idealized vision of Cerberus, and that mix of pragmatism and idealism is characteristic of her: "I believe in what Cerberus stands for. I believe in our goals."

So, where does this tendency to idealize and rationalize come from? Well, probably from the fact that Cerberus was originally a refuge from her father. She was dependant on the organisation and needed/wanted to believe that this was her place in the world. On the Collector Ship there is obvious dismay in her voice at the thought that TIM might betray her. "There has to be another explanation."

So, really the resignation scene is partly about Miranda leaving the cocoon of Cerberus and striking out on her own. Or finally admitting that her goals and those of TIM are not identical. "Betrayal" of herself or betrayal of her mission. Or betrayal of the people who would die in Cerberus' next botched experiment. Probably all of the above.

Modifié par flemm, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:49 .

[primoULTIMO]

Interesting points flemm, just to see if I understood, your considering her undying devotion at the begining of the game with Cerberus as a sentimentalist/ idealist trait? Always thought she was only rational and buisness-like.

Modifié par primoULTIMO, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:54 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
So I find myself unable to reconcile this line with Miranda. I think it was put in to make Miranda acceptable for Paragons with complete disregard of her character consistency.

I understand your point of view, but I don't think I really agree. Or, I should say, I agree that we need more information and that Miranda's motivation needs to be further explored in ME3. But I don't agree that it's hard to reconcile this scene with Miranda as we know the character.

One of the things that makes Miranda interesting is that she is ruthless, but within certain bounds. This is in evidence throughout the game. Witness her insistence that the cell running experiments on Jack was "not really Cerberus." And her rationalisations of certain Cerberus activities in conversation with Shepard: We stopped experimenting on the Rachni as soon as we learned they were sentient. Another project was a "tragic mistake," etc.

So, she has a somewhat idealized vision of Cerberus, and that mix of pragmatism and idealism is characteristic of her: "I believe in what Cerberus stands for. I believe in our goals."

So, where does this tendency to idealize and rationalize come from? Well, probably from the fact that Cerberus was originally a refuge from her father. She was dependant on the organisation and needed/wanted to believe that this was her place in the world. On the Collector Ship there is obvious dismay in her voice at the thought that TIM might betray her. "There has to be another explanation."

So, really the resignation scene is partly about Miranda leaving the cocoon of Cerberus and striking out on her own. Or finally admitting that her goals and those of TIM are not identical. "Betrayal" of herself or betrayal of her mission. Or betrayal of the people who would die in Cerberus' next botched experiment. Probably all of the above.

Well it doesnt matter because I am going to kill TIM on all of my profiles... MY UBER **** RENEGADE profile is the one where I hope I can take up TIMs mantle and become the new TIM... That means I am going to have the Shadow Broker's resources and Cerberus resources to work with...

Oh the things I can do with that kind of funding.

Shep: "So Miss Lawson... I hope you enjoy the perks of dating your boss."

Miranda: "Sweetheart we have work to do... can you please not have a one track mind."

Shep:

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 14 septembre 2011 - 09:56 .