82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

Skullheart wrote...

wow. Did I miss a cat fight?

Rarrrrrr

Modifié par flemm, 15 septembre 2011 - 03:43 .

[MisterJB]

So as to not derail the thread any longer, I'll just pm Omega my answer.

[Berserk011]

Rarrrrrr

Oh sweet jesus, this will be at the end of ME3 when Shepard and Miranda are on their honeymoon, im calling it. <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

[Melra]

For the love of god.. Calm down with those hearts, for realz....

[Berserk011]

Oh jeez Melrache, i know you want to put twice the hearts. I know ya do.

[Melra]

1-2 get the point across, overdoing is never funzies.



This reminds me of Miri the most. Simple, beautiful, but still kinda badass looking.

[Omega4RelayResident]

flemm wrote...

The sky is green.

Also... Don't touch my Miranda! 

Actually, Omega, serious question: where does this hypothetical actually come from?

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
So yeah if in game Miri said something like "I cant see anyone ever getting attached to Mr. Brittle Bones over there." If she was'nt kidding around I would knock her teeth out and send her packing back to TIM if that was an option. Some things are just crossing the line.

I mean, sure, if Miranda or anyone else suddenly became like a serial killer or kitten-strangler or *insert whatever despicable thing*, I wouldn't like that either. But so what, really? She isn't going to start mocking Joker for his disability anymore than she is going to start strangling kittens on a regular basis.


So, I guess, if the point was to inform everyone that you don't like people who make fun of the disabled, well, mission accomplished. But Omega, I've got to tell you, I would have given you the benefit of the doubt on that one anyway. And I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that, no, Miranda making fun of the disabled would not be good. But I feel like, having established that universal truth of ultimate obviousness, we can move on

The conversation started as... "If Shep did not choose to go hook up with Miranda who would be in line next to make her happy?"

I said the order of Miranda being happy would be "Shep > Jacob, Jacob > Joker, Joker > Kaidan"

Then someone questioned as to why Miranda would ever even consider dating Joker. I defended Joker as a decent guy who has his character flaws... but his dissability should in no way be a factor in whether or not hes someone worth dating.

I began to illustrate that people who mock or discriminate against the disabled really ****** me off. I chose to make a hypothetical IN GAME situation.... that broke no forum rules.... I double checked. Then someone's panties got all bunched up because I could possibly invision Shep getting fiesty with Miranda.

Its a childish argument but I stand by the fact that as long as I follow forum rules I will not be censored. I will stand up for anyone and everyone else if someone tries to censor them without proper cause.

And yes I want to move on.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 15 septembre 2011 - 04:54 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

Melrache wrote...

1-2 get the point across, overdoing is never funzies.



This reminds me of Miri the most. Simple, beautiful, but still kinda badass looking.

I like how natural she looks in this pic.

[Ieldra]

Too many Strahovski pics, too few Miranda pics....let's get back on topic...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 septembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[Melra]

Wrong, there can never be too many, only too few. These pics we've seen 1000000000 times already.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Melrache wrote...

Wrong, there can never be too many, only too few. These pics we've seen 1000000000 times already.

And all this time I thought Miri and Yvonne are the two different sides of the same coin....

[Skullheart]

Pixels vs atoms. Can't decide yet...

[Dave of Canada]

Strahovski is Miranda, Miranda is not Strahovski. This isn't a Strahovski appreciation thread.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:19 .

[raziel1980]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Strahovski is Miranda, Miranda is not Strahovski. This isn't a Strahovski appreciation thread.

QFT on that seriously!

@ Ieldra2, where in the hell do you get the mod to remove that visor from Miri's AAP armor???

And here is my Miri pic for the page....

[Melra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Strahovski is Miranda, Miranda is not Strahovski. This isn't a Strahovski appreciation thread.

Stating the obvious doesn't make you look smart.

[Vertigo_1]

raziel1980 wrote...
@ Ieldra2, where in the hell do you get the mod to remove that visor from Miri's AAP armor???

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Modifié par Vertigo_1, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:45 .

[Dave of Canada]

Melrache wrote...

Stating the obvious doesn't make you look smart.

Not trying to sound smart, trying to clarify something which many people seem to not understand.

[raziel1980]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

raziel1980 wrote...
@ Ieldra2, where in the hell do you get the mod to remove that visor from Miri's AAP armor???

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Thanks Vertigo!

[Spanky Magoo]

Doesnt bioware see what their doing withholding miri info, we're tearing each other apart. lol

(edit) just skimmed the last few pages it seems like the lack of info is really starting to try some peoples nerves.

Modifié par Spanky Magoo, 15 septembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[Melra]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Wrong, there can never be too many, only too few. These pics we've seen 1000000000 times already.

And all this time I thought Miri and Yvonne are the two different sides of the same coin....

<

Never said they were the same, just similar in some pics.

Just going... ''<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3:wub::wub::wub:'' over pics, that've been linked on almost daily basis since the game first came out is pointless. If there's nothing new to discuss or to show, why post at all?

It just all turns into the ''Waagh.. She not be mah Miwi if she's not biatchy to everything that moves'' or how stupid idea it was to have her wear heels. After which we move to.. ''Dat ass...'' and people rush in ''AAGH! THEY ARE OBJECTIFYING WOMEN!! *RAGE* ''.

It's all been done to death, last time we reached this point and people reached out bit out of the ''zone'' and certain people started being picky about it, the fanbase got cut in half and most of them still aren't back.

[Omega4RelayResident]

I blame political correctness... I make a joke and some people get upset over it. Someone comes in here and flames Miri... (which in all honesty they have a right to... no one said you have to like her... other than us) so we flame them back...

Its like we are Megamind in the movie going "BACK YOU SAVAGES! BACK!"

I do believe a good sense of humor can save the world... where a lack of one can destroy it. I miss George Carlin... he stated that people take things way too seriously. Its a shame really because I know these people want to have fun just like anyone else and have a good laugh... but when they come on the forums its like they become a totally different person.

I think forum trolls ruined everything for everyone... taking it all to that level could have never ended up well.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
So I find myself unable to reconcile this line with Miranda. I think it was put in to make Miranda acceptable for Paragons with complete disregard of her character consistency.

I understand your point of view, but I don't think I really agree. Or, I should say, I agree that we need more information and that Miranda's motivation needs to be further explored in ME3. But I don't agree that it's hard to reconcile this scene with Miranda as we know the character.

One of the things that makes Miranda interesting is that she is ruthless, but within certain bounds. This is in evidence throughout the game. Witness her insistence that the cell running experiments on Jack was "not really Cerberus." And her rationalisations of certain Cerberus activities in conversation with Shepard: We stopped experimenting on the Rachni as soon as we learned they were sentient. Another project was a "tragic mistake," etc.

Don't think I don't know - or appreciate - that. I wouldn't want a Miranda as ruthless as TIM. The problem is that using the technology of the base as such cannot be seen as morally reprehensible by any rational moral reasoning. Or do you really think that liquefying people is all the base is good for? Or that any researcher worth her name would assume that beforehand? The experiments on Pragia, Overlord, the Rachni studies - these are obviously problematic at least, the damage done to intelligent beings cannot be discounted and things remain ethically problematic even if you justify the experiments.

Rejecting the technology of the base regardless of the use it's put to, that decision uses a different moral domain, one that is driven by disgust and justifies itself by attributing some kind of "taint" to the rejected technology, resulting from what was done there. It's the same domain which would justify the stance that Miranda is an abomination, so perhaps you can see my...disgust...at this being connected to her decisions. I think it is fundamentally incompatible with her character concept, unless you want a Miranda who hates her own existence.
 

So, she has a somewhat idealized vision of Cerberus, and that mix of pragmatism and idealism is characteristic of her: "I believe in what Cerberus stands for. I believe in our goals."

So, where does this tendency to idealize and rationalize come from? Well, probably from the fact that Cerberus was originally a refuge from her father. She was dependant on the organisation and needed/wanted to believe that this was her place in the world. On the Collector Ship there is obvious dismay in her voice at the thought that TIM might betray her. "There has to be another explanation."

I don't see this as an example for idealization and rationalization. Why? She has a point. It makes no sense for TIM to send Shepard into a trap after he spent several billion credits to bring him back from the dead. Not before he has done his task and - as far as TIM is concerned - acquired Reaper technology (in the form of the base, but he couldn't know the form it would take at that point) for him.

So, really the resignation scene is partly about Miranda leaving the cocoon of Cerberus and striking out on her own. Or finally admitting that her goals and those of TIM are not identical. "Betrayal" of herself or betrayal of her mission. Or betrayal of the people who would die in Cerberus' next botched experiment. Probably all of the above.

The problem here is the blanket statement "Using anything from this base......." It does not apply to Cerberus in any way, it's a statement of moral absolutism with complete absence of the pragmatism that should also be there at this point. Up to that point, morality and expediency had a balance in Miranda, which may differ depending in your interpretation but neither part was absent. Neither pragmatism or morality ruled Miranda's character exclusively. That's gone with this statement, and more to the point, it's gone in a completely irrational way. With this statement, she goes from a reasonable limited pragmatism to being exactly the sentimental morally absolutist Paragon most of us here dislike.   

I mean, she knows how it will be used and who will be using it. It's not an academic or theoretical question.

Then she should have said so. She should have said something that amounts to "I can't justify keeping it, knowing what you'll do with it" (Meaning TIM to whom she was speaking to at that point). What she says instead amounts to "This technology is evil". That's not Miranda speaking, sorry. TIM forces her to choose between Cerberus and Shepard, leading to her resignation. I find that a little problematic given her history but I can accept it as character development. But her reasoning is off the rails.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:39 .

[Omega4RelayResident]

@ Ieldra2 and flemm...

Do you think Miranda is a strong independant woman? Do you think Miranda can make decisions and live with the consequences of her actions? Do you think if Shep did anything obscenely against mission parameters Miranda would voice that without hesitation?

If you guys answered yes to these then think about this...

If TIM did anything that Miranda did not approve of would you think she would continue working for him?

IMO she if far too pricipled, strong willed, intelligent, and smart to actually take a "Do as you are told!" from anyone... if she did not agree with it. I think she expressed her self well by making the statement that she is no one's tool.

If your boss asked you to do something you felt deep down was wrong would you do it?

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:38 .