82210 réponses à ce sujet

[AstronautN7]

Spanky Magoo wrote...
In addition it could be a culmination of the events of overlord, pragia, and what happened on the derelict reaper that caused miranda to lose faith in TIM.  

My playthroughs mirror your post. I take Miranda on the derelict reaper mission, later the Jack LM, followed by Overlord and then the SM, where she sides with my Shepard. It's not perfect as the Jack/Miranda arguing still happens regardless and as many others pointed out previously the writing wasn't the best and they could have made much more sense with a hints or two about her getting doubts of TIM.

On another note: I like Yvonne Strahovski and to an extend Miranda Lawson as much as most here, but it would be nice to have a bit less of the always same images appear again and again on almost every page and then often have the follow up posts quoting those images and adding nothing else than a me too / +1 followed by smileys.

EDIT: I see I'm not the only one and naledgeborn posted about it too.

Modifié par AstronautN7, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:15 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I don't think anyone is speaking against Miranda smiling but rather against letting sentimentality influence her on-field decisions.

Exactly so. Anyone who thinks I have problems with Miranda being sentimental should read my fanfics. But it's a flaw when she's fuctioning in her role as field operative, and not one she had displayed previously.

This is exactly what I've always said. I'm getting rather tired of being misrepresented...

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

flemm wrote...
They don't show her being fine with it. What they show quite consistently throughout the game is Miranda attempting to dissassociate Cerberus and TIM from the organisation's more abusive projets, including most of what we see in ME1, the experiments involving Jack, etc. (I don't recall any specific discussion of Overlord.)

Actually, Miranda stands her ground when she is confronted about the ME1 experiments. She justifies what Cerberus did and corrects Shepard's preconceptions of what their goals were.

And she does so very well, if you ask me. I don't know why people get so incensed at the Creeper and Husk experiments, assuming Cerberus really didn't create the Husks themselves and it was the result of an accident. It's not as if they were intelligent, they just look like humans. It's almost like using corpses for experiments. That may trigger the irrational disgust-driven moral intuitions I've spoken about earlier, but Miranda has no problem seeing through it all here...

BTW, there are no Overlord-related conversations because it's a DLC and none of the team members have lines recorded for it.   

[Melra]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

 It's bad enough that most of the Mass Effect fan base has Miranda tagged as "obvious fan service".

So? Most of the ME fan base can't tie their own shoes. Unqualified comments like that should be ignored.

Like the one that you quoted? I AGREE!

[naledgeborn]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

So? Most of the ME fan base can't tie their own shoes. Unqualified comments like that should be ignored.

I could give a rat's ass about what the fandom thinks, it's what they relay back to the writers that concens me. Enough people want "obvious fan service" they'll get it. We've seen it happen before in this series. So I'm hoping that in Miranda's case intelligent conversation from the fanbase will translate into intelligent writing and less gratuitous ass shots. There's enough real women and pornography for that lol.

Edit: I thought I didn't have to explain myself, but apparently I'm "unqualified".

Modifié par naledgeborn, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:36 .

[jtav]

It's not even good fanservice. And I'd like a lot less of it in ME3 and more focus on her non-physical good qualities.

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

So? Most of the ME fan base can't tie their own shoes. Unqualified comments like that should be ignored.

I could give a rat's ass about what the fandom thinks, it's what they relay back to the writers that concens me. Enough people want "obvious fan service" they'll get it. We've seen it happen before in this series. So I'm hoping that in Miranda's case intelligent conversation from the fanbase will translate into intelligent writing and less gratuitous ass shots. There's enough real women and pornography for that lol.

Edit: I thought I didn't have to explain myself, but apparently I'm "unqualified".

I strongly disagree, never enough.

[naledgeborn]

Melrache wrote...

I strongly disagree, never enough.

Then you must not know what is to have one ****ing at you on a daily basis before going to bed. lol.  
I still love her though.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:43 .

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

I strongly disagree, never enough.

Then you must not know what is to have one ****ing at you on a daily basis before going to bed. lol.  
I still love her though.

Nah, there's never enough ass. There must be more. It's funny how people are making it such a big deal, you don't have other things in life to worry about ? 

[flemm]

MisterJB wrote...

flemm wrote...
They don't show her being fine with it. What they show quite consistently throughout the game is Miranda attempting to dissassociate Cerberus and TIM from the organisation's more abusive projets, including most of what we see in ME1, the experiments involving Jack, etc. (I don't recall any specific discussion of Overlord.)

Actually, Miranda stands her ground when she is confronted about the ME1 experiments. She justifies what Cerberus did and corrects Shepard's preconceptions of what their goals were.

She presents a justification, of course. But in a way that clearly shows that, in her mind, there are lines that should not be crossed, and that Cerberus does not habitually or intentionally cross. For example, in the case of the Rachni, that sentient beings should not be experimented on. Or, in the case of Jack and the related experiments: a mistake (not mine).

The question isn't really whether Miranda herself has a rational justification for her involvement with Cerberus. She does. The question is more whether that justification corresponds to the reality of the organisation's activities. Which it probably doesn't, and is therefore a rationalisation in the pejorative sense. Granted, there is enough ambiguity surrounding Cerberus, especially early in ME2, that the accuracy of Miranda's assessment is debatable. But it's quite likely not all that accurate, i.e. TIM is perfectly comfortable with crossing the lines Miranda would not cross. Or with encouraging others to do it for him, so that he can later disavow responsability.

Modifié par flemm, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[naledgeborn]

Melrache wrote...

Nah, there's never enough ass. There must be more. It's funny how people are making it such a big deal, you don't have other things in life to worry about ? 

Sure I do. Most of them consists of how to keep my wife's complaining to a minimum. 
But we're talking about a BioWare game. If you're not in it for the narrative what are you in it for, you know what I mean?

Modifié par naledgeborn, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:47 .

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Nah, there's never enough ass. There must be more. It's funny how people are making it such a big deal, you don't have other things in life to worry about ? 

Sure I do. Most of them consists of how to keep my wife's complaining to a minimum. 
But we're talking about a BioWare game. If you're not in it for the narrative what are you in it for, you know what I mean?

Nah, not really. I didn't honestly even pay that much attention to the ass shots on my first playthrough, they can't be that big of a problem.

I just wish they'd take shots from all possible angles, at least in the future.

[naledgeborn]

Melrache wrote...

Nah, not really. I didn't honestly even pay that much attention to the ass shots on my first playthrough, they can't be that big of a problem.

I just wish they'd take shots from all possible angles, at least in the future.

You didn't notice? 
I totally forgot what she was talking about despite Miranda being a collection of pixels. I was like uh huh, right,  your sister.... 

[flemm]

Well, personally I found some of the ass shots to be completely unnecessary. But otherwise I enjoy the sexiness of the character (and her face and voice model) and see no reason at all to get uptight or self-conscious about it.

There's no real conflict between that type of thing and intelligent discussion anyway. We can have both.

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Nah, not really. I didn't honestly even pay that much attention to the ass shots on my first playthrough, they can't be that big of a problem.

I just wish they'd take shots from all possible angles, at least in the future.

You didn't notice? 
I totally forgot what she was talking about despite Miranda being a collection of pixels. I was like uh huh, right,  your sister.... 

It's not her fault, that you lack focus. Dat ass is part of her character just as much as the funbags. They're here to stay, else she's not Miwi. And since she has them, why not put them onto display. 

flemm wrote...

Well, personally I found some of the ass
shots to be completely unnecessary. But otherwise I enjoy the sexiness
of the character (and her face and voice model) and see no reason at all
to get uptight or self-conscious about it.

There's no real conflict between that type of thing and intelligent discussion anyway. We can have both.

This and if you're so after ''intelligent'' discussions, then you're at the wrong place, though... that kinda makes you look less intelligent for not realizing that yourself. So get off yar high horsies.

Modifié par Melrache, 15 septembre 2011 - 01:59 .

[naledgeborn]

flemm wrote...

There's no real conflict between that type of thing and intelligent discussion anyway. We can have both.

Which is what I'm advocating here.

[flemm]

naledgeborn wrote...

Which is what I'm advocating here.

I agree with you. And I hold up the many walls of text I have posted in this thread as evidence of my committment to discussion, as intelligent as I am able to make it.

(But I like the pics, too.)

Modifié par flemm, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:00 .

[jtav]

Because it's cheap and objectifying. Unlike Isabela, it isn't tied to her character or the narrative. The only comment is a swipe by Enyala that's clearly the devs poking fun. It was clearly put their for no other reason than the benefit of a certain type of gamer.

[jtav]

And there was a time we could have intelligent discussion on this thread without pages of gushing.

[Melra]

jtav wrote...

Because it's cheap and objectifying. Unlike Isabela, it isn't tied to her character or the narrative. The only comment is a swipe by Enyala that's clearly the devs poking fun. It was clearly put their for no other reason than the benefit of a certain type of gamer.

And you think you're better than this certain type of player, that they're catering to? *sigh*

[flemm]

Melrache wrote...
This and if you're so after ''intelligent'' discussions, then you're at the wrong place, though... that kinda makes you look less intelligent for not realizing that yourself. So get off yar high horsies.

I don't know. I feel like we have had some reasonably intelligent exchanges in the thread. I'm not sure where the hostility is coming from exactly, but I'm cool with just letting it go.

EDIT: Oh, I think I get it. Well, yeah. Like I say, I don't see any conflict at all between the two points of view.

Modifié par flemm, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:09 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

jtav wrote...

And there was a time we could have intelligent discussion on this thread without pages of gushing.

Even I'm getting concerned about this.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:12 .

[naledgeborn]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Even I'm getting concerned about this.

And there's the kicker...
I thought 12/12/12 wasn't for another year. I guess the end of the world came early.

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...
Even I'm getting concerned about this.

And there's the kicker...
I thought 12/12/12 wasn't for another year. I guess the end of the world came early.

Why whine about lack of intelligence, if you can't stop being snide towards the same person over and over? *facepalm*

Modifié par Melrache, 15 septembre 2011 - 02:15 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I mean I really love Miri. I gush, I admit (proud of it). But not as much as that anymore.