82210 réponses à ce sujet

[naledgeborn]

Melrache wrote...

That's how she is, if you can't accept it then find someone else.

Uh huh. I'll stick with Miranda thanks. If you don't like it take it up with BSN.

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

That's how she is, if you can't accept it then find someone else.

Uh huh. I'll stick with Miranda thanks. If you don't like it take it up with BSN.

Nah, most people seem to be pretty fine with her as she is, you don't. So you need to change, not her. Else give it up.

[naledgeborn]

Melrache wrote...

Nah, most people seem to be pretty fine with her as she is, you don't. So you need to change, not her. Else give it up.

Prententious off topic idiot is off topic. 

Modifié par naledgeborn, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[Jebel Krong]

naledgeborn wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

and take even more control out of the palyer's hands?! no thanks - the once again awful comic has done enough of that already... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

How so? You're still playing as Shepard... It's like not having the over-glorified Spectre status. It's only a title. 

how is spectre status over-glorified, exactly? In-game it seems to mean little and even less seemingly in the comic. just being a spectre should put you out of alliance jurisdiction for a start. not to mention being in jail on your own ship pretty much contravening all the developments of me2...

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Nah, most people seem to be pretty fine with her as she is, you don't. So you need to change, not her. Else give it up.

Prententious off topic idiot is off topic. 

Aww, you're beneath me, you going for insults only further proves this. And I am on topic, the topic is about Miranda, so it's on topic. I think she's fine as she is and you want to change her. So you're just selfish lil man trying to ruin a character that many people enjoy the way she is. Maybe it's time for you to go to kindergarten to learn some manners, lil man?

[naledgeborn]

Jebel Krong wrote...

how is spectre status over-glorified, exactly? In-game it seems to mean little and even less seemingly in the comic. just being a spectre should put you out of alliance jurisdiction for a start. not to mention being in jail on your own ship pretty much contravening all the developments of me2...

That's what I mean. Spectre status has been demoted to a 10% discount at the Citadel Gift Shop. Shepard not being Commanding Officer of the Normandy while the VS deferred to his/her judgment would add potential for dramatic conflict among the Normandy crew while not taking away the players ability to chose. Shepard is afterall a war criminal. Doubt it would happen like flemm said but a possibilty to consider.

[flemm]

I get why some people don't like the "betrayal" line on the CB. It feels a little wishy-washy for Miranda. But I also think it's worth putting the CB situation in a little perspective as well.

Basically, they just discovered a base that has the sole function of melting down living people into a sort of raw material. The numbers of people already treated in this manner by the time they arrive probably number in the hundreds of thousands. EDI estimates that the base is designed to process maybe millions more in the same manner.

I have a hard time searching for a real world example that might compare to the sheer horror of discovering this. Maybe liberating a concentration camp? But with the added insanity of the victims being melted down and used for some sort of reproduction. I recognize the game takes place in fantasy land and everything, but for anyone not to have some sort of gut reaction of horror and repugnance to that, the individual, man or woman, would have to be really sick or deranged. If you weren't really, really good at compartmentalizing stuff, you'd be off puking in a corner somewhere.

Miranda is tough, and she has her cold, calculating side. But she is not sick or deranged. That she might have a gut reaction of horror to the CB and to the idea of the tech being weaponized is pretty plausible. Do we really think Miranda as we come to understand the character throughout the game, who cares deeply for those she is close to, whose whole agenda is fighting to protect humanity, could walk into a giant human death factory and react like Legion (a robot)?

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 03:37 .

[naledgeborn]

flemm wrote...

I get why some people don't like the "betrayal" line on the CB. It feels a little wishy-washy for Miranda. But I also think it's worth putting the CB situation in a little perspective as well.

Basically, they just discovered a base that has the sole function of melting down living people into a sort of raw material. The numbers of people already treated in this manner by the time they arrive probably number in the hundreds of thousands. EDI estimates that the base is designed to process maybe millions more in the same manner.

I have a hard time searching for a real world example that might compare to the sheer horror of discovering this. Maybe liberating a concentration camp? But with the added insanity of the victims being melted down and used for some sort of reproduction. I recognize the game takes place in fantasy land and everything, but for anyone not to have some sort of gut reaction of horror and repugnance to that, the individual, man or woman, would have to be really sick or deranged. If you weren't really, really good at compartmentalizing stuff, you'd be off puking in a corner somewhere.

Miranda is tough, and she has her cold, calculating side. But she is not sick or deranged. That she might have a gut reaction of horror to the CB and to the idea of the tech being weaponized is pretty plausible. Do we really think Miranda as we come to understand the character throughout the game, who cares deeply for those she is close to, whose whole agenda is fighting to protect humanity, could walk into a giant human death factory and react like Legion (a robot)?

Well no, I agree. But the base is still a fountain of information worth exploring. It's like when Shepard is trapped on the Derelict Reaper.

"I'd really hate to lose this thing, we need all the information we can get on the Reapers." That's the type of reaction I was expecting. Not the about-heel-to-face that we got at the CB.

[clennon8]

I thought this thread was for Miranda fans, not Strahovski stalkers?

Modifié par clennon8, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:12 .

[flemm]

I thought these pissing contests were scheduled to occur at a rate of precisely one every 2.57 pages... Or has that just been a coincidence all along?

I'm pretty confident, by the way, that Bioware is not listening very closely to us and that, if Miranda is ruined, they will do it all by themselves. So, naledgeborn, I'm afraid your nefarious plot is doomed to failure.

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:03 .

[naledgeborn]

flemm wrote...

I thought these pissing contests were scheduled to occur at a rate of precisely one every 2.57 pages... Or has that just been a coincidence all along?

I'm pretty confident, by the way, that Bioware is not listening very closely to us and that, if Miranda is ruined, they will do it all by themselves. So, naledgeborn, I'm afraid your nefarious plot is doomed to failure.

@ Nefarious Plot


Lol @ pissing contests. It's mostly Strahovski fanboyism trying to mutate Miranda Lawson into a brunette Sarah Walker. It'll never happen, but hey, who am I to go around crushing dreams?

[Caihn]

Sorry but it's not us who want to change the character. I have no problem to like the character like she is in the game. I don't blame the writers because I can't accept something about her.

@clennon8
I like Yvonne because she's a talented actress, and I like Miranda because she's an amazing fictional character. Deal with it.

[Melra]

clennon8 wrote...

I thought this thread was for Miranda fans, not Strahovski stalkers?

''Stalkers'' Awww, come back when you have something useful to say. Grow up.

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

flemm wrote...

I thought these pissing contests were scheduled to occur at a rate of precisely one every 2.57 pages... Or has that just been a coincidence all along?

I'm pretty confident, by the way, that Bioware is not listening very closely to us and that, if Miranda is ruined, they will do it all by themselves. So, naledgeborn, I'm afraid your nefarious plot is doomed to failure.

@ Nefarious Plot


Lol @ pissing contests. It's mostly Strahovski fanboyism trying to mutate Miranda Lawson into a brunette Sarah Walker. It'll never happen, but hey, who am I to go around crushing dreams?

Can't mutate someone into something that she already is. YOu're the problem here.

[flemm]

naledgeborn wrote...
"I'd really hate to lose this thing, we need all the information we can get on the Reapers." That's the type of reaction I was expecting. Not the about-heel-to-face that we got at the CB.

Fair enough. But the reason I bring it up is that some of the objections raised about the "betrayal" line tend to be that it is out of character for Miranda to not be entirely pragmatic in that situation (and even that her somewhat emotional response to the situation pushes the character toward a sexist stereotype). I don't think I can get on board with that point of view because I think that perspective fails to account for the nature of what she has just witnessed.

Ok, it's fantasy land, but the thing to do is to search for a comparable real world situation and see what makes sense. There were concentration camps where inhumane medical experiements were run on the prisoners. Would it really be in-character for Miranda to walk into a situation like that and say, "It's just data, we should use it." without any type of repugnance?

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[clennon8]

Yeah, but... Don't y'all have something more to add to the conversation, besides telling other people not to have the conversation? I mean, this is a discussion forum, not just a "We wub Yvonne" tribute page.

EDIT:  Never mind.  I'm out.  BSN remains the cesspool I thought it was.

Modifié par clennon8, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:38 .

[jtav]

Actually, that was a very real debate. The data ended up being used, but it took decades. Destroying the base is not only not using the data, it's trashing the only copy of the notes.

They could have solved the whole thing by implying TIM would pulp say a few hundred criminals.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

Actually, that was a very real debate. The data ended up being used, but it took decades. Destroying the base is not only not using the data, it's trashing the only copy of the notes.

Ok, but we're talking about an initial reaction on the part of someone who has just witnessed the horrors of the camps (to follow the analogy). And in other respects, the CB situation is even more problematic (the war is still on-going, the person most likely to have control over the base is TIM, it's not just data but the tech that did the killing and melting down, etc.).

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[naledgeborn]

flemm wrote...

Ok, it's fantasy land, but the thing to do is to search for a comparable real world situation and see what makes sense. There were concentration camps where inhumane medical experiements were run on the prisoners. Would it really be in-character for Miranda to walk into a situation like that and say, "It's just data, we should use it." without any type of repugnance?

And this is why I agree to a point. Where the characterization fails to hold up IMO is in that she absolutely fails to recognize the value of the base. Up until this point Miranda has gone with her head over her gut. As traumatized as she may or may not have been I would expect to see some internal/external conflict play out. She says the base is bad, I agree. But for 30 hours I was led to believe that like Mordin or Legion she was a pragmatist. The change from cautious pragmatist to implusive idealist was a radical one.

Melrache, who's needs to grow up now? It's okay I'm sure you mom's on her way with your bottle. But the adults are speaking now alright? 

Modifié par naledgeborn, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:45 .

[flemm]

Yannkee wrote...
I like Yvonne because she's a talented actress, and I like Miranda because she's an amazing fictional character. Deal with it.

I do, too, for the record. I don't really get the adversarial nature of some of these exchanges, but maybe it's because I showed up a bit late to the party.

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 04:47 .

[Melra]

naledgeborn wrote...

flemm wrote...

Ok, it's fantasy land, but the thing to do is to search for a comparable real world situation and see what makes sense. There were concentration camps where inhumane medical experiements were run on the prisoners. Would it really be in-character for Miranda to walk into a situation like that and say, "It's just data, we should use it." without any type of repugnance?

Melrache, who's needs to grow up now? It's okay I'm sure you mom's on her way with your bottle. But the adults are speaking now alright? 

Keep dreaming.

You're beneath me lil guy. I've already proven how immature you're, you're not worthy of my attention any longer.

That's me..

I still don't think the information in Collector base would've been much of an use anyhow, it seemed more like a facility for melting the humans and pumping them into the Reaper. Nothing more. I can't see how such information could be of any use, maybe the way how they made it able to survive in the galactic core.

Still, Miri came to same conclusion as I'd expect any person to come to, after going through what they went through in there and given the same options as she was.

Modifié par Melrache, 17 septembre 2011 - 05:01 .

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
I like Yvonne because she's a talented actress, and I like Miranda because she's an amazing fictional character. Deal with it.

I do, too, for the record. I don't really get the adversarial nature of some of these exchanges, but maybe it's because I showed up a bit late to the party.

I was just responding to a trolling comment. Yvonne has nothing to do with the debate.

[Caihn]

A cool ME characters fanart  :



http://blacklion310....ffect-258800180

If only we could have such a team in ME3.

Modifié par Yannkee, 17 septembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[flemm]

Legion's reaction is sometimes brought up as comparing favorably to Miranda's, but I'm somewhat bemused by that for two reasons. One, he is a robot, so he should react more coldly to a situation like that than even the most pragmatic person. Two, what he says contains a blatant factual error:

Legion: Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others.

The facility is not data. It may contain a lot of data. It could be used to acquire data. Data could be extracted from it. But it is not data anymore than a gun is data. Or a warship is data. Or a torture chamber.

Mordin's reaction is perhaps a better comparison, but we know Mordin has a history of justifying things to himself on the basis of pragmatism and then struggling with it later, searching for redemption, etc. And we know that salarians process their emotional responses much faster than humans. It's also not a Salarian death factory, but a human one. So, it's an interesting comparison, but I'm not sure Mordin's response would make sense as a model for Miranda's either.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Modifié par flemm, 17 septembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

Melrache wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Lol @ pissing contests. It's mostly Strahovski fanboyism trying to mutate Miranda Lawson into a brunette Sarah Walker. It'll never happen, but hey, who am I to go around crushing dreams?

Can't mutate someone into something that she already is. YOu're the problem here.

Oh snap~