So do I, ever since I had the save error in Mass Effect 1, I haven't been bothered to continue. Mass Effect 1 has become quite tedious for me.Yannkee wrote...
It reminds me that I still have to finish my canon playthrough. :/
Modifié par ParadoxAu, 18 septembre 2011 - 07:50 .
ParadoxAu wrote...
So do I, ever since I had the save error in Mass Effect 1, I haven't been bothered to continue. Mass Effect 1 has become quite tedious for me.Yannkee wrote...
It reminds me that I still have to finish my canon playthrough. :/
Ieldra2 wrote...
Just curious, what was the "wrong" option you took in a conversation with Miranda?
Sounds like a glitch. I am unaware of any option there locking you out of the romance.Melrache wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
Just curious, what was the "wrong" option you took in a conversation with Miranda?
I am not sure, if I did anything wrong or if my save somehow got messed up, but when I went to talk to Miri the conversation didn't progress like it used to. The romance hadn't been ''flagged''. *shrugs* The one where Shepard is able to ask about Miri's mother and father, if I remember right.
Ieldra2 wrote...
Sounds like a glitch. I am unaware of any option there locking you out of the romance.Melrache wrote...
Ieldra2 wrote...
Just curious, what was the "wrong" option you took in a conversation with Miranda?
I am not sure, if I did anything wrong or if my save somehow got messed up, but when I went to talk to Miri the conversation didn't progress like it used to. The romance hadn't been ''flagged''. *shrugs* The one where Shepard is able to ask about Miri's mother and father, if I remember right.
Really? I always keep permanent saves near the end of any mission, and right before any conversation on Miranda's loyalty mission. I don't think there's any point in the game I can't reach within ten minutes of any permanent save. The only problem is that the number of saved games is limited to 50, even on the PC. That worked for the main game but with all the DLC I have to delete some I'd rather keep. WIth my main Shepards, I've copied some out files while playing and copied them back later so that I have about 70 saves for them.Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Yeah sounds like it... thats why I always save one mission behind the durrent save... I delete any uneeded save points further down the line and I only keep the ones I want to randomly replay.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 septembre 2011 - 09:48 .
Ieldra2 wrote...
Really? I always keep permanent saves near the end of any mission, and right before any conversation on Miranda's loyalty mission. I don't think there's any point in the game I can't reach within ten minutes of any permanent save. The only problem is that the number of saved games is limited to 50, even on the PC. That worked for the main game but with all the DLC I have to delete some I'd rather keep. WIth my main Shepards, I've copied some out files while playing and copied them back later so that I have about 70 saves for them.Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Yeah sounds like it... thats why I always save one mission behind the durrent save... I delete any uneeded save points further down the line and I only keep the ones I want to randomly replay.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
If I had to guess, I'd say Miranda meant humanity in general. If that is indeed how she feels then that's even less out of character then I already percieved that line.Arijharn wrote...
Who exactly are we 'betraying' anyway?
spiros9110 wrote...
Yannkee wrote...
flemm wrote...
That's cool. I don't think Miranda needs to be redeemed either. She should retain her capacity to be ruthless and calculating (within certain bounds). But I also think that a powerful sentiment of revulsion due to her experiences on the CB is quite plausible, given what we know about the character, and not a sign that she is suddenly going to become a girly-girl who just can't think straight when there's work to be done.
this
I find completely ridiculous to raise the Paragon Vs Renegade flag everytime we have to discuss this topic.
I play my Shepards like I want without Paragon or Renegade consideration, and I accept the different characters like they are, avoiding any categorization.
I don't want to "paragonized" Miranda, I just want the Miranda created by the Bioware writers. And this includes the aspect of her character showed at the end of the game.
I agree with this as well. I was actually expecting that sort of line from Miranda near the end of game because of the vibe I was getting and the way my actions were influencing her perspective towards Cerberus. Is it out of character for her? Not for me because I still see her as a very independant and strong-willed woman, that is still willing to make sacrifices of a certain level to reach the goal, but still having limits. Is my opinion the right one, no, but neither is anyone elses because we all have different perspectives towards that situation and what lead up to it.
cyborg2501 wrote...
She isn't bound by the same moral codes as other characters, which gives her the freedom to make unpredictable decisions. She's going to do what she and she alone feels is right, and chaining her to the pragmatic side of her character would do more harm than good IMO. Character evolution and dynamism are crucial to a good story.
Modifié par Yannkee, 18 septembre 2011 - 11:48 .
Melrache wrote...
ParadoxAu wrote...
So do I, ever since I had the save error in Mass Effect 1, I haven't been bothered to continue. Mass Effect 1 has become quite tedious for me.Yannkee wrote...
It reminds me that I still have to finish my canon playthrough. :/
Mhm, my own personal canon ME2 run was kinda interrupted when I realized 20 hours in that something was wrong when I went to talk with Miri. I wouldn't take the wrong option during conversations with Miri, I just wouldn't I've done it so many times before already, but this time I had somehow ''ruined it''. I can only think it had something to do with Steam seeing Texmod.exe in the binaries folder as some kind of error, when it redownloaded most of the files.
Blah, 10 hours worth of backtracking ahead, weird stuff.
Yannkee wrote...
spiros9110 wrote...
Yannkee wrote...
flemm wrote...
That's cool. I don't think Miranda needs to be redeemed either. She should retain her capacity to be ruthless and calculating (within certain bounds). But I also think that a powerful sentiment of revulsion due to her experiences on the CB is quite plausible, given what we know about the character, and not a sign that she is suddenly going to become a girly-girl who just can't think straight when there's work to be done.
this
I find completely ridiculous to raise the Paragon Vs Renegade flag everytime we have to discuss this topic.
I play my Shepards like I want without Paragon or Renegade consideration, and I accept the different characters like they are, avoiding any categorization.
I don't want to "paragonized" Miranda, I just want the Miranda created by the Bioware writers. And this includes the aspect of her character showed at the end of the game.
I agree with this as well. I was actually expecting that sort of line from Miranda near the end of game because of the vibe I was getting and the way my actions were influencing her perspective towards Cerberus. Is it out of character for her? Not for me because I still see her as a very independant and strong-willed woman, that is still willing to make sacrifices of a certain level to reach the goal, but still having limits. Is my opinion the right one, no, but neither is anyone elses because we all have different perspectives towards that situation and what lead up to it.
Yeah.
And to me it's not something OOC, but something that also define her character. And this complex personality is what makes her interesting to me.
Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:31 .
Arijharn wrote...
The problem I have with Miranda's CB thought process, other than what Ieldra has already mentioned is that I find it doubtful that the Illusive Man has never ever asked her to perform any other sort of morally objectionable tasks during her tasks with Cerberus before hand. Why do I believe this? Because of our own experience with Cerberus and how they are usually doing something at least nominally 'underhanded.' Therefore, Miranda's objection to this just seems... ridiculous imo. It's not as if it was Cerberus that was feeding people into goo vats, and it is also obvious that at that point in time we have no other option to fight the Reapers on anything remotely considering an equal footing.
Who exactly are we 'betraying' anyway? The dead colonists? people in the future? Aren't we 'betraying' the people in the future if we do not do 'enough' now to prevent the Reaper's completely dominating us when they arrive? How can we make assurances to that degree of being better performing re the Reaper threat if not adapting Collector technology (because we at least know that it's superior to ours atm) now? These are the sort of questions I would have expected Miranda to voice or even think even if she doesn't have an answer.
For a woman who is supposed to be rather pragmatic (even to the point of being harsh), this is such a disconnect that for a moment I thought: "Who are you, and what have you done to my fav ME2 character?"
Omega4RelayResident wrote...
I said it before and I will say it again BioWare prides themselves when making an RPG by allowing the NPCs to change who they were at the beginning of the game into who you drove them to become... the NPCs can also change your outlook on your decisions.
The effects on the NPCs were blatanlty obvious in KotOR. Obsidian Entertainment was commisoned by BW to do KotOR2 and they even elaborated on that process even more.
The mastefull stroke in ME is that the changes are either subtle or so out of character for the NPC it causes arguments like this.
Subtle example: when you met Garrus for the first time he was a "typical" honorbound Turian that followed orders even if he did not like them... slowly traveling with Shep he became more and more proactive about doing things the way he thought was right.
Blatant example: Wrex was a warmonger bounty hunter for hire... the travels with Shep and the events on Virmire turned him into a noble leader that wants a secured future for the Krogan. In my honest opinon he went from self serving to honorable and just.
From the gamer perspective: It should have never came to you as a shock the decision Miranda made concerning the CB. Shep has an incredible effect on people around him. An inspiration for them to be Paragons or Renegades themselves. BioWare really out did themselves this time because people did not notice that these changes were happening because of their actions.
From the in game perspective: Yes I agree with you all that the decision is unlike her. She would not act on a whim without further research. Like I said maybe she had a moment of intuition that took over concerning the CB.
I hate Cerberus and all it stands for. Its a corrupt institiution with no moral limitations. In my analysis I tried to keep that opinion out of it. I really hope that it pans out the way I am thinking its going to pan out.
Modifié par Yannkee, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:47 .
Yannkee wrote...
I don't agree.
Miranda support the destruction of the base whatever her loyalty, and whatever Shepard's decision. She's independant.
There is a character development, but not mainly because of Shepard.
She has her own opinion about the CB. This is what she thinks, even if some don't like it.
I disagree. If we don't see any change, then they've done it wrongly. It is bad writing to hide character development and then spring its result on the player out of the blue.Omega4RelayResident wrote...
From the gamer perspective: It should have never came to you as a shock the decision Miranda made concerning the CB. Shep has an incredible effect on people around him. An inspiration for them to be Paragons or Renegades themselves. BioWare really out did themselves this time because people did not notice that these changes were happening because of their actions.
Thank you for acknowledging the point. I hope that it's a moment of being overwhelmed by the situation. I still don't like it, and I still say it reflects badly on her competence, but it would be excuseable given the extremity of what was done at the base.From the in game perspective: Yes I agree with you all that the decision is unlike her. She would not act on a whim without further research. Like I said maybe she had a moment of intuition that took over concerning the CB.
How do you think it will pan out? BTW, while I don't entirely agree with you - for me Cerberus is more two-faced - I can understand your position. I see Miranda as being similar to Mordin with regard to her ethics. Basically, the ends justify some means, but there is a limit. The reason why I give some leeway to the way Cerberus is thinking is that a threat like the Reapers justifies more questionable means than if it was just about furthering human dominance in an otherwise unthreatened galaxy.I hate Cerberus and all it stands for. Its a corrupt institiution with no moral limitations. In my analysis I tried to keep that opinion out of it. I really hope that it pans out the way I am thinking its going to pan out.
Omega4RelayResident wrote...
Yannkee wrote...
I don't agree.
Miranda support the destruction of the base whatever her loyalty, and whatever Shepard's decision. She's independant.
There is a character development, but not mainly because of Shepard.
She has her own opinion about the CB. This is what she thinks, even if some don't like it.
I agree with you to the point of talking about her character in game.
However the fact that BioWare has always done this every game they ever released just about is an undeniable fact. The NPCs always change to suit the main character. Juhani in KotOR would go light side or dark side based on your interactions with her. The entire squad in KotOR 2 could be swayed to the dark side or the light side.
Modifié par Yannkee, 18 septembre 2011 - 12:59 .
I disagree.Yannkee wrote...
Miranda support the destruction of the base whatever her loyalty, and whatever Shepard's decision. She's independant.
There is a character development, but not mainly because of Shepard.
She has her own opinion about the CB. This is what she thinks, even if some don't like it.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:04 .
Ieldra2 wrote...
I disagree.Yannkee wrote...
Miranda support the destruction of the base whatever her loyalty, and whatever Shepard's decision. She's independant.
There is a character development, but not mainly because of Shepard.
She has her own opinion about the CB. This is what she thinks, even if some don't like it.
If you keep the base, she's uncomfortable with it but acknowledges that what Cerberus finds on the base might be worth it. That's a reasonable attitude and quite different from the stupid apodictic condemnation she gives in the exchange with TIM and which makes a joke of her being TIM's most competent operative.
Modifié par Yannkee, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:05 .
Modifié par Arijharn, 18 septembre 2011 - 01:08 .
Arijharn wrote...
Ieldra did say 'might', which is synonymous with hope in context imo.
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