82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

I guess the larger question is: is it really possible to "do Cerberus right"? Even though I would certainly trust Miranda more than TIM, a powerful, covert organisation with no real oversight is always going to be a problem waiting to happen. What happens if Miranda is killed? Who will be her successor?

That's why I would include oversight.

[jtav]

The point, though, is to have no oversight. It's not a glorified CIA. The idea is to do those political acts and scientific experiments that would be beneficial to human dominance that would be forbidden to the Alliance for one reason or another.

[Eyeshield21]

true, then they could be accountable for bad stuff

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

The point, though, is to have no oversight. It's not a glorified CIA. The idea is to do those political acts and scientific experiments that would be beneficial to human dominance that would be forbidden to the Alliance for one reason or another.

Which means that it's not a human STG, it's a human STG with no restraints. I think this sort of thing is automatically predisposed to go badly.

[jtav]

On occasion it will, just as it goes badly for governments. That's why those in leadership positions have to come down harshly on those who go over the line.

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

On occasion it will, just as it goes badly for governments. That's why those in leadership positions have to come down harshly on those who go over the line.

And you'd rely on all holders of leadership to continue this even after Miranda's death? That's not a bet I would take; what sorts of things would actually be necessary and not morally repugnant that the Council would disallow?

[naledgeborn]

Xilizhra wrote...

If Miranda does lead some kind of organization like this... well, to be honest, my goal is to eliminate single-species governments and other institutions, so I'd hope she could just eventually join the STG. But if it must be human, eliminate everything Cerberus beforehand so she can start something fresh.

Not trying to go off topic, but this will never happen. Humans, in general, will always hold the best interests of Humanity over that of other species. Same with Turians, Salarians, and Asari. And I see no problem with that. The STG will always be the Salarian Special Tasks Group. Same with Asari Commandos and Turian Cabals. As long as those checks and balances are in place I see no problem with it. The STG can be comissioned by a Dalatrass on behalf of the Citadel Council to go on special operations, but they ultimately answer to the Dalatrass. As it should be. If you want intergration, well that's what C-Sec and the SpecTRes are for.

And this is why I support the "destroy and rebuild" scenario of Miranda taking over Cerberus. The SAN doesn't have a go-to network of agents that specializes in espionage and intelligence gathering. That's what Cerberus used to be before they became a scapegoat (went rogue). I hope that when the dust settles the SAN annexes Cerberus into it's current chain of command with Miranda as the director.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

On occasion it will, just as it goes badly for governments. That's why those in leadership positions have to come down harshly on those who go over the line.

That kind of gets back to the whole oversight and accountability issue, and why there needs to be some.

I guess that's the one issue I have with the whole idea of Miranda basically restarting Cerberus under her leadership. It's a compelling idea for a few reasons, but on another level I'm not sure it represents real progress or even a plausible decision.

We will have seen Cerberus, this powerful covert organisation with no oversight, go way over the line numerous times and quite possibly succomb to indoctrination due to experimenting on Reaper tech. Basically everything will have gone wrong that can go wrong. So I'm not sure that Miranda's reaction would necessarily be, "Let's do that again."

naledgeborn wrote...
The SAN doesn't have a go-to network of agents that specializes in espionage and intelligence gathering. That's what Cerberus used to be before they became a scapegoat (went rogue). I hope that when the dust settles the SAN annexes Cerberus into it's current chain of command with Miranda as the director.

Something like this, maybe.

Modifié par flemm, 19 septembre 2011 - 04:01 .

[jtav]

I hope Miranda remains independent. I'm actively rooting for the fall of the Alliance.

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

I hope Miranda remains independent. I'm actively rooting for the fall of the Alliance.

hmmm, fall of the Alliance, eh.........does it really need to fall?

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 19 septembre 2011 - 04:02 .

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

I hope Miranda remains independent. I'm actively rooting for the fall of the Alliance.

Possibly it'll be replaced by something new. But if it is, Cerberus really needs to go too, and harder.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

:wub:

[Eyeshield21]

Nice pic bro

[jtav]

Actually I'm rooting for the loss of Earth and the end of humanity as a galactic power. I really can't stand ME humanity. But I'll take what I can get.

[Xilizhra]

Ah? What annoys you about ME humanity?

[jtav]

The Sueishness of their rise to power combined with their being exactly one non-squad human I like. So Shepard's fighting for them while I'm rooting for the Reapers.

[enayasoul]

jtav wrote...

Actually I'm rooting for the loss of Earth and the end of humanity as a galactic power. I really can't stand ME humanity. But I'll take what I can get.

You seem very anti-everything dealing with Mass Effect. I don't even know why you are even a fan if you hate it so much.  Killing off people who ****** you off.   You are very weird sometimes. 

I love everything about Mass Effect. I don't kill anyone in my team intentionally either.  You want to kill even Miranda and I find that unacceptable to me.  I'd never kill her or anyone member of my squad.  Miranda's the best part of Mass Effect 2!  I love all the characters, some more than others.  

[Xilizhra]

jtav wrote...

The Sueishness of their rise to power combined with their being exactly one non-squad human I like. So Shepard's fighting for them while I'm rooting for the Reapers.

Eh, I suspect humanity's damage will be severe.

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

The Sueishness of their rise to power combined with their being exactly one non-squad human I like. So Shepard's fighting for them while I'm rooting for the Reapers.

I think the "Sueishness" is only applicable to an all human or human led council. Let's face it; Paragon council will always veto Anderson/Udina so the seat is little more than symbolic.

[Eyeshield21]

naledgeborn wrote...

jtav wrote...

The Sueishness of their rise to power combined with their being exactly one non-squad human I like. So Shepard's fighting for them while I'm rooting for the Reapers.

I think the "Sueishness" is only applicable to an all human or human led council. Let's face it; Paragon council will always veto Anderson/Udina so the seat is little more than symbolic.

All I'm hoping is we can give the finger to the council when we prove the reapers exist.

[jtav]

There are things I like: ME2 Cerberus as a concept, the geth-quarian conflict, genophage, Illium. Miranda and pretty much everyone but Garrus, Zaeed, and Grunt.

And I killed Miranda to see what would happen. Not out of malice.

[jtav]

naledgeborn wrote...

jtav wrote...

The Sueishness of their rise to power combined with their being exactly one non-squad human I like. So Shepard's fighting for them while I'm rooting for the Reapers.

I think the "Sueishness" is only applicable to an all human or human led council. Let's face it; Paragon council will always veto Anderson/Udina so the seat is little more than symbolic.

Not what I mean. The timeline is ridiculous. 26 years from first contact to major power and technological parity with civilzations that have had the tech for 1500-2500 years longer? Uh-huh.

[naledgeborn]

jtav wrote...

Not what I mean. The timeline is ridiculous. 26 years from first contact to major power and technological parity with civilzations that have had the tech for 1500-2500 years longer? Uh-huh.

I don't like it either... but Prothean cache, remember? It seems Prothean tech is the be all end all of technological evolution. Or at least a plateau.

[Eyeshield21]

naledgeborn wrote...

jtav wrote...

Not what I mean. The timeline is ridiculous. 26 years from first contact to major power and technological parity with civilzations that have had the tech for 1500-2500 years longer? Uh-huh.

I don't like it either... but Prothean cache, remember? It seems Prothean tech is the be all end all of technological evolution. Or at least a plateau.

it shows you the timeline in the codex.

[MisterJB]

ME1 also attempted to explain it. Apparently, unlike the other races, humans "think outside of the box".
Granted, it's an udedeveloped explanation but at least it's there. The problem is that Bioware doesn't seem to know where it wants to go with humanity. I really like the idea of humans being the newcomers who are still trying to prove themselves, it makes playing as a human much more interesting than playing as, say, a Turian would be. Bu then we have cases like that Asari on Illium who acts as if her human partner died of old age.

On the topic of Miranda's Cerberus. I support Miranda using her (deceased) father's money and the remains of Cerberus to create an organization completely independent from any government. Also, I'm sure Miranda would groom a sucessor.