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[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
Regarding Shepard's relationship with the Reapers (and the advanced tech that may have contributed to his resurrection), I think it's possible that the Protheans may intervene here as well, either via data/recovered tech or in person, in the form of an actual Prothean survivor in stasis. The Protheans know more about Reaper tech than anyone else and are the only reason the galaxy has a fighting chance at the moment. So bringing them in somehow would make sense.

The Protheans knew more about Reaper technology? Where did you get that from? They knew enough about mass relays to build a small prototype, that's all. 
BTW I still hope Reaper technology wasn't used for bringing Shepard back. It lessens the accomlishment. I'd rather his cybernetic parts made him more vulnerable to their influence, or someone put something into him in the two days he was unconscious in Arrival.

Liara is the Prothean expert, of course. And I could see Miranda being tied into this as the Lazarus expert, though her contribution would have to be minor enough that you could subtract it without breaking the plotline. (Alternately, if Miranda is dead, it might be possible to recover her records on the Lazarus project, or something of that nature.)

Possibly. I would want Miranda's death to close off a plot development path, but it can't be one the lack of which would result in Shepard's death. I find it more likely that her death limits our options in the Cerberus plotline.

[diamondedge]

I would be pissed beyond description if Miranda didn't have a prominent role in ME3. She is actually one of few characters (if not the only) whose respect/affection you have to work hard to earn.

Not to give a character like that the role of importance she deserves would no doubt be disappointment for many people - and bad business move. Miranda has very numerous fanbase so I've no doubt she will get her attention, even if just for fan's sake. In either case, I've no objections.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
Well, yeah, I can't help but think that letting characters die will produce a version of content that will... how shall I put this... *trying to be delicate, not succeeding*... suck more than the version where the character survives. But that sort of makes sense: the more of your allies die, the less support you have in the war, and the more bleak the galactic picture appears.

That's partly why, a few pages back, I thought it was significant that apparently only 13% of squad members die in ME2 (according to the stat cited by Ieldra, I believe it was). That means that, on average, even imported games won't be missing much of the more vibrant content. Unless the player basically decides s/he wants it that way and consciously kills everyone. In which case, so be it.

Here's the original source. Note that his also says Garrus was among the most played squadmates, which makes me ask why they didn't mention Miranda, who was the most played squadmate according to a post by Brenon Holmes. This is also the source for the information that 36% of all people kept the Collector base, which is actually pretty good given that the Paragon option was the "feel-good" decision. Significant enough that they really shouldn't build ME3 around Paragon decisions like they did so far.

Note that cited figures may be off by a few percent due to misquotes and/or possible rounding issues. I've heard the figures quoted as 13% squadmate deaths on average, 63% who played a Soldier and 37% who kept the base.

Too bad we don't have any stats on how many people did which loyalty missions. That would be interesting. Anyway, I agree that these figures make it likely that people who let squadmates die will lose significant content. That's as it should be. I have a death or two in most playthroughs, but my "canon" playthroughs are those where everyone survives. So far at least. I'm getting more Renegade as the time goes, so it's possible I'll replay them....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:20 .

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
So something like this?

Yep. Definitely. Does that sum up the feelings in this thread sufficiently to put it into the OP? I think it's very, very apt. Though this makes me question who will romance Miranda in ME3....

For those who're seeing this for the first time: no, it's not confirmed. It's a "what if" scenario. What we would like to do if this comes to pass. Preferably somewhere at Bioware...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ieldra]

I'm wondering if this difference has any meaning....

Romance conversation no. 1, Paragon version:

Yannkee wrote...

Romance conversation no. 1, Renegade version:

*headscratch*

[Melra]

I prefer the stars in first one... They're aligned for far better romance in dat one, I swear I can see it.

[Ieldra]

Melrache wrote...
I prefer the stars in first one... They're aligned for far better romance in dat one, I swear I can see it.

:lol:
I think you will not be surprised that I see a much better alignment of stars in the second one.

[flemm]

Yannkee wrote...
They said that Miranda will have ufinished buiseness with Shepard and even more if romanced. So it means that the players who romanced her will have more content with her. 

[...]

So those who romanced her will be able to have additional converstions with her, and have a deeper relationship.

What the "unfinished business" comment suggests, I think, is just basically that the romance can be flagged in imported games (which is not news, really) and that there will be more/different dialogue options in that scenario. Which absolutely makes sense.

But squad membership being dependant on the romance is a different story. I really doubt that's accurate. Which is a good thing imo. Miranda should have an important role regardless of romance.

Ieldra2 wrote...
The Protheans knew more about Reaper technology? Where did you get that from? They knew enough about mass relays to build a small prototype, that's all.

That alone is pretty suggestive, though. Also they were able to reprogram the Keepers... Maybe I'm forgetting something. Who else has had that type of success dealing with this technology? Even just being able to scan the Keepers is a breakthrough for the current crop of Citadel species.


@Melrache, nice to see the crump avatar back in action

Modifié par flemm, 23 septembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[Caihn]

flemm wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
They said that Miranda will have ufinished buiseness with Shepard and even more if romanced. So it means that the players who romanced her will have more content with her. 

[...]

So those who romanced her will be able to have additional converstions with her, and have a deeper relationship.

What the "unfinished business" comment suggests, I think, is just basically that the romance can be flagged in imported games (which is not news, really) and that there will be more/different dialogue options in that scenario. Which absolutely makes sense.

But squad membership being dependant on the romance is a different story. I really doubt that's accurate. Which is a good thing imo. Miranda should have an important role regardless of romance.

Being part of the squad and having an important role are two different things. I think she will have an important role because of the Cerberus plot. But the squadmate status is very important for me in order to have additional conversations and more interactions with her, and I don't mind that this is dependant of the romance.
She could be a squadmate for a longer period (until the end of the game) if she is romanced.

[jtav]

Past experience with Bioware tells me a romanced Miranda will get a few extra lines of dialogue, a love scene, and maybe an extra conversation. The romances simply aren't that important in the grand scheme of things.

[flemm]

Yannkee wrote...

Being part of the squad and having an important role are two different things. I think she will have an important role because of the Cerberus plot. But the squadmate status is very important for me in order to have additional conversations and more interactions with her, and I don't mind that this is dependant of the romance.

I understand. We'll see how it works out, obviously.

On the subject of squad membership, on that point I absolutely agree, it is important. Miranda can have a prominent role in a few missions without being on the squad, but her importance to the plot will be limited overall by the Suicide Mission (same for a lot of other characters, obviously).

So, for her to have a satisfactory presence in the game, squad membership is probably a must. Not necessarily for the whole game, but for a big chunk of it. Frankly, Mac Walters has already let us know about what? Four scenes or so with Miranda? That would pretty much be a minimum, based on his comments. That's pushing the limits already for a non-squad member, I would think.

Exceptions would be quest-givers/exposition dumpers like Anderson or TIM (in previous games), but Miranda is not going to have that type of role in this game.

Modifié par flemm, 23 septembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[jtav]

"Several scenes" So more than two. But just to be devil's advocate, Liara had several scenes in ME2.

Speaking strictly predictively, I'd say she's probably the most prominent temp, leaving once Cerberus is dealt with.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

"Several scenes" So more than two. But just to be devil's advocate, Liara had several scenes in ME2.

Later he responded to another tweet by saying he had just done first pass writing on a scene he described as rather juicy. So reviewing several scenes + writing another later on = about four minimum, I think that is a reasonable interpretation.

Re: Liara in ME2, I agree it is possible. But four scenes is pushing the limits of that type of appearance, especially since he certainly didn't make it sound like those were the only scenes.

Modifié par flemm, 23 septembre 2011 - 12:47 .

[jtav]

Help a role-player out?

My current Paragon is mission-focused to an almost pathological degree and doesn't care about the squad on a personal level. The Collectors are out there and she doesn't have time to solve everyone's problems. But there's still room for 3-4 LMs. (2 before CB, 2 between IFF and crew capture) I'm trying to do the ones that seem most important at the time you get them. Legion's tops the list for obvious reasons. But where does Miranda's fall on the list?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Help a role-player out?

My current Paragon is mission-focused to an almost pathological degree and doesn't care about the squad on a personal level. The Collectors are out there and she doesn't have time to solve everyone's problems. But there's still room for 3-4 LMs. (2 before CB, 2 between IFF and crew capture) I'm trying to do the ones that seem most important at the time you get them. Legion's tops the list for obvious reasons. But where does Miranda's fall on the list?

I'm guessing you're looking for LMs with an impact beyond the personal....

High priority:
*Legion. Might make an ally of the geth.
*Samara. It's personal, but an Ardat-Yakshi could go on killing for hundreds of years.
*Zaeed. There's a whole factory at stake.

Low priority:
*Garrus (no impact beyond Garrus and Sidonis)
*Miranda (no impact beyond Miranda and Oriana)
*Jack (no impact beyond Jack herself)
*Jacob (Reasonably you should expect everyone from the Hugo Gernsback is dead)
*Grunt (no impact beyond Grunt himself)
*Tali (you don't know that this might affect the whole fleet, so it's just personal)
*Thane (no impact beyond Thane and Kolyat),

Unclear:
*Kasumi if she tells you beforehand that the information could implicate the Alliance (I don't know if she does).
*Mordin if you can reasonably suspect a genophage cure might be be involved. I don't think you can.

[jtav]

Basically, it works out to any two of Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Mordin, and Grunt/Garrus while waiting on the Collector Ship, plus Legion and one other during the IFF. Zaeed is toast on his LM, I think.

[flemm]

What you're alluding to is a bit of a problem with the way ME2 is built. Too much of the material is tangential to the main story. It's good for character development, but not for the cohesiveness of the whole. Not something that is likely to be repeated in ME3, I don't think.

Unfortunately, I think that may mean Oriana is one of the Miranda plot threads that is least likely to reappear. Too bad, because I'm really fond of that mission and that side of Miranda's character. But, it is natural for stuff like Cerberus and Lazarus to win out during the war.

[jtav]

Oh, I don't mind the structure. I'm just trying to make the game more interesting (and quick). I accidentally deleted some saves, so I've got a lot of Sheps to do.

[raziel1980]

jtav wrote...

Oh, I don't mind the structure. I'm just trying to make the game more interesting (and quick). I accidentally deleted some saves, so I've got a lot of Sheps to do.

Exactly how many sheps are you planning on importing into ME 3? Right now, I have 6( 5 imported from 1)...and possibly gonna make a 7th in 3...so that one can romance the new female human character( if indeed is one and she is romancable as well as interesting...hoping this 'vigilante' character rumor that emily hopkins is voicing turns out to be true).

[jtav]

Four in total. Three for Liara, one for Miranda. I'll do a single Shep if ME3 merits it.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
What you're alluding to is a bit of a problem with the way ME2 is built. Too much of the material is tangential to the main story. It's good for character development, but not for the cohesiveness of the whole. Not something that is likely to be repeated in ME3, I don't think.

I hope so. I touched on this in one of my earlest threads about ME2, here. I don't want another game about my team, I want to do something with my team.

Unfortunately, I think that may mean Oriana is one of the Miranda plot threads that is least likely to reappear. Too bad, because I'm really fond of that mission and that side of Miranda's character. But, it is natural for stuff like Cerberus and Lazarus to win out during the war.

You can't have everything I guess. Of all the possible aspects of Miranda's life, it's Oriana I would miss least I must admit. Her father's plans are far more interesting, and the Cerberus connection the obvious hook for her role in ME3.

[raziel1980]

LOL... I'm starting to think me n jtav are rather tame with our number of sheps...some on here have like 9+ sheps they are importing...though I think that's mostly because they have tweeked n changed the faces of some of their characters( why ME doesn't have a black emporium type of feature, I will never know... I guess have a couple of petpeeves with 2...).

[flemm]

Well, one of the things I am looking forward to is playing the whole saga straight through. So I'm not going to stockpile too many Sheps in advance. I have three. Might do one more, time permitting.

Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW I still hope Reaper technology wasn't
used for bringing Shepard back. It lessens the accomlishment. I'd rather
his cybernetic parts made him more vulnerable to their influence, or
someone put something into him in the two days he was unconscious in
Arrival.

Hmmm, yeah, I think that's a good point. Let Lazarus be an achievement of the Cerberus cell, while the Reaper influence remains a factor for other reasons.

Modifié par flemm, 23 septembre 2011 - 03:10 .

[jtav]

Well, since '07, I've gone through three Xboxes and two PCs. I've also made deletions I regret. The only completed Shep is bloodbath Shep, but if I could resurrect them from the digital graveyard, I'd have dozens.

But I'm getting a little tired of the game, so I'm limiting my romances to Miranda and Liara.

[Ieldra]

raziel1980 wrote...
LOL... I'm starting to think me n jtav are rather tame with our number of sheps...some on here have like 9+ sheps they are importing...though I think that's mostly because they have tweeked n changed the faces of some of their characters( why ME doesn't have a black emporium type of feature, I will never know... I guess have a couple of petpeeves with 2...).

I have eight. Four femSheps and four maleSheps. Though I've played some of them more than once through ME1 and ME2 both.