82210 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

I think she puts Shepard on a pedestal way more than she should, and the power balance that is appealing to Miranda's romance/character(at least to me) is lost a bit. It always felt like to me Jacob and Miranda swapped writers once we got onto the Normandy. Jacob gets all mission focused/pry personal details out of him and Miranda opens up/becomes friendly for almost no reason.

[Collider]

strive wrote...

I think she puts Shepard on a pedestal way more than she should, and the power balance that is appealing to Miranda's romance/character(at least to me) is lost a bit. It always felt like to me Jacob and Miranda swapped writers once we got onto the Normandy. Jacob gets all mission focused/pry personal details out of him and Miranda opens up/becomes friendly for almost no reason.

Agreed.

[jtav]

Just a general question inspired by my current dilemma.

What would you sacrifice in game terms to keep Miranda alive?

[HogarthHughes 3]

jtav wrote...

Okay, I have a hard choice incoming. Either Miranda dies, two other squad members die, or I get half my crew killed to do one more LM.

Get half the crew killed!  It's very dramatic and sad when only Kenneth survives.  Then again, I care more about them than most of the ME2 squad so my recommendation should be taken with a grain of salt.

*edit - I agree with Collider & Strive, but w/e as long as she is still ruthless in ME3 Miranda will be fine in my book.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[flemm]

Collider wrote...

I suppose we simply see it differently. I got an enormous feeling of Miranda being insecure and self-loathing in that conversation. It was both the dialog and how she said it. The voice acting was particular in showing it.

As you say, different intepretation. To me there is clearly no self-loathing there at all. Remember, what Miranda feels she lacks is that "certain something" that she feels Shepard has, the fire to lead or whatever. It's not a question of raw ability.

I expect that Miranda's character arc will lead toward her finding a bit of that fire and self-confidence. And part of that will have been her experience with Shepard. That's what the conversation is about, really, I think. Shepard embodies, to Miranda, that fire and self-confidence that she is now ready to seek out.

The CB business is ultimately about that as well, at the end of the day, I think. Miranda striking out on her own. Though we'll have to see where this picks up in the next game. 

Collider wrote...
 There is a mission between the station and the Normandy, but she makes no mention of that so it feels like an oversight (or negligence) between the writers who wrote her than any actual progression. But, ymmv.

I don't think any specific reference is necessary, really. It's just that, throughout the course of the game, these characters have to be understood as living these things together, fighting back to back, trusting each other, etc. Otherwise none of it really makes any sense. You don't talk to somebody four times in the engine room, office, armory, wherever and become lovers, best friends, trusted allies, and so on.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:23 .

[goofyomnivore]

Okay, I have a hard choice incoming. Either Miranda dies, two other squad members die, or I get half my crew killed to do one more LM.

I always prefer killing squaddies rather than the crew. Squaddies is more memorable to the story for me. The whole crew dieing is pretty somber and macabre though if you think about the abduction to "processing" they endure. Kind of puts humanity's possible fate into scope.

Modifié par strive, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[Dr. Doctor]

That line where Miranda calls Shepard "the best that humanity has to offer" really made me wish that there was an option that didn't stroke Shepard's ego:

Miranda: I don't have what you have Shepard.

Shepard: And I don't have what you have either. You're brilliant, you can do anything that you put your mind to. You pioneered what is possibly the greatest medical advancement in history, organized this entire mission, and yet I'm the best that humanity has to offer? I'm just a soldier who ended up on the wrong side of a Prothean artifact, that's all.

Miranda: You're selling yourself short.

Shepard: So are you.

Miranda: (sighs) Are we just going to continue this back and forth until one of us gives in?

Shepard: (moves closer to Miranda)  You know me, I'm persistant.

Miranda: (smiles) Don't get cocky, I put you back together and I do damn good work.

Shepard: See, that's the spirit.

Miranda: (chuckles) You ass.

(the two kiss)

[flemm]

Ha, nicely done, Doc, as usual.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:42 .

[jtav]

Oh, that's adorable.

I think I should resign from the Miranda fan club. Clearly, I'm not good for the lady. At least this time it was trying to make the best of a bad situation?

[flemm]

strive wrote...
Jacob gets all mission focused/pry personal details out of him and Miranda opens up/becomes friendly for almost no reason.

Well, I think there's a reason Miranda's dialogue path works and Jacob's really doesn't. With Miranda, you have this very attractive woman who is initially off-putting, but if you keep talking to her after you experience a mission or two together, you are rewarded with more information and greater trust. Whereas with Jacob, you have a character who is initially friendly but after you spend more time with him he shuts it down.

Miranda's dialogue is more rewarding for the player, and also more of a natural progression between two people who are just getting to know one another.

jtav wrote...

 At least this time it was trying to make the best of a bad situation?

What happened, did I miss something?

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Dr. Doctor]

Jtav, from what I get you like Miranda's character but not in the typical sense. You present both the good and bad sides of her in a logical and ordered fashion. And I'd much rather have varied opinions and discussion rather than pages upon pages of gushing.

[goofyomnivore]

Miranda's dialogue is more rewarding for the player, and also more of a natural progression between two people who are just getting to know one another.

femShep/Jacob is pretty good stuff until femShep goes all cougar mode on him. I would argue a lot of the questions he asks femShep would be relevant to maleShep too. But the gender block on his dialogue really hurt his progression, but you can say that about all the romances.

I think if they would of split the first Normandy conversation Miranda has with you into two sections it would of felt like a more natural progression for me. The first one being the matter-of-fact Cerberus is this, that, and whatever. Then a more in depth warming up to "friendly" conversation that explained her genetic tailoring and what not. Instead of the two being squished into one conversation, and then the next conversation being the "im only as good as my genes" dialogue. Just seemed really emotional/personal thing to share with such little interaction. Considering how bad it bothers her.

I think I should resign from the Miranda fan club. Clearly, I'm not good for the lady. At least this time it was trying to make the best of a bad situation?

Jtav, you've been very influential on how I perceive Miranda(and in a good way too). I think you do her justice, and enjoy reading your perspectives/opinions.

Modifié par strive, 27 septembre 2011 - 04:21 .

[flemm]

strive wrote...
I think if they would of split the first Normandy conversation Miranda has with you into two sections it would of felt like a more natural progression for me.

I certainly think that could have worked as well. As a general thing, more conversations, and therefore slower progressions, would be ideal.

[goofyomnivore]

Yeah its something that wouldn't hurt any character, but I'm probably biased in saying that Miranda needs it the most :-).

[flemm]

strive wrote...

Yeah its something that wouldn't hurt any character, but I'm probably biased in saying that Miranda needs it the most :-).

Heh, yeah, I may be somewhat biased in the direction of more Miranda conversations myself, now that you mention it

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 04:29 .

[MisterJB]

strive wrote...
I think if they would of split the first Normandy conversation Miranda has with you into two sections it would of felt like a more natural progression for me. The first one being the matter-of-fact Cerberus is this, that, and whatever. Then a more in depth warming up to "friendly" conversation that explained her genetic tailoring and what not.
 

Personally, I don't believe it necessary. The first conversation about Miranda's genetic tailoring mirrors her first conversation about Cerberus, it's very matter-of-factly. My father did this; It's why I'm entrusted with the most important projects; etc.

Instead of the two being squished into one conversation, and then the next conversation being the "im only as good as my genes" dialogue. Just seemed really emotional/personal thing to share with such little interaction. Considering how bad it bothers her.

Well, yeah but managing these types of conversations is really up to the player. You can have her second conversation after going to the Citadel and the Normandy Crash Site which, of course, will make it look rushed and even a bit funny.
Or you can delay that conversation until right before Horizon or even after her LM which, IMO, makes it feel like a more natural progression.

Modifié par MisterJB, 27 septembre 2011 - 04:50 .

[goofyomnivore]

yeah but managing these types of conversations is really up to the player.

I agree 100%, and I tend to delay it and add headcanon stuff as well. I usually do it after Grunt's LM which I usually do right after Horizon. My Shepard is a Soul Survivor, so I always imagining them venting to each other afterwards.

However, a bridging less personal conversation between the two would be nice, rather than moving so rapidly (content wise) from the fringe of friendship to deeper personal issues. I think Miranda's romance suffers the most from the Mass Effect 2 speedway romances. Due to how her character is presented.

Modifié par strive, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:02 .

[flemm]

strive wrote...
 I think Miranda's romance suffers the most from the Mass Effect 2 speedway romances. Due to how her character is presented.

When you say ME2 speedway romances, what are you comparing them to, out of curiosity?

In ME1, I usually romance Liara, and it's literally two conversations and it's done. That's it. With Ashley and Kaidan there is more interaction in the early sections of the game, but really nothing that is as deep as the ME2 loyalty missions that I can recall.

In abstract terms, even more involved interactions would obviously be better, but ME2 seems like a pretty clear improvement as far as involvement with the characters, compared to ME1.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[goofyomnivore]

When you say ME2 speedway romance, what are you comparing it to, out of curiosity?

Liara has LotSB, or I would agree with you her romance is uber short. I don't really count Garrus/Tali as Mass Effect 2 romances since their interaction spans through two games.

I personally find Ashley and Kaidan's interactions/romances with Shepard more natural and meaningful. With them you get the four/five conversations or so, but you get Virmire, Locker talk, pre-Illos, and the early game build up you touched on.

Loyalty missions are nice, but I don't think they rival; a whole DLC, a whole game, and VS romance path. (JMO) of course though.

[flemm]

strive wrote...

Liara has LotSB, or I would agree with you her romance is uber short. I don't really count Garrus/Tali as Mass Effect 2 romances since their interaction spans through two games.

I personally find Ashley and Kaidan's interactions/romances with Shepard more natural and meaningful. With them you get the four/five conversations or so, but you get Virmire, Locker talk, pre-Illos, and the early game build up you touched on.

Loyalty missions are nice, but I don't think they rival; a whole DLC, a whole game, and VS romance path. (JMO) of course though.

That's pretty convoluted thinking there. Basically what you are saying is that a lot of ME2 content is actually not part of ME2, but part of ME1.

As far as the Ashley/Kaidan stuff, I would agree it is closer to the amount of interaction you have with Miranda (or the other romance interests) in ME2, but even that is arguable.

The romance interactions are more involved in ME2, which includes LotSB and the Garrus/Tali romances. They happen to involve some characters from the original game.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[goofyomnivore]

I understand we still have Mass Effect 3 to go, but as of right now the Mass Effect 2 exclusive characters that are romance able have gotten the short end of the stick IMO. I'm not trying to compare the two games, rather I'm comparing the romances.

Modifié par strive, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:32 .

[flemm]

strive wrote...

I understand we still have Mass Effect 3 to go, but as of right now the Mass Effect 2 exclusive characters that are romance able have gotten the short end of the stick IMO. I'm not trying to compare the two games, rather I'm comparing the romances as a whole.

"ME2 speedway romances" is an expression that seems to suggest that the ME2 romances move more quickly than their ME1 counterparts. Which struck me as odd since Liara's ME1 romance is clearly the fastest (by a lot) regardless of what happens in LotSB. Miranda's interactions with Shepard play out over the course of the whole game, as is also the case with Ashley/Kaidan. The depth/meaningfulness of the interaction is a more subjective issue, of course.

As to the overall quality of the romances, I think the LotSB stuff stands out as better than the rest by quite a bit. So hopefully that is a good sign for what we will see for all the characters in ME3.

[goofyomnivore]

Yeah speedway was probably the wrong word to use (English isn't my native tongue), and it is really late. I guess what I was trying to convey was I think Miranda, Jacob, Jack, and Thane's romance suffer from "lack of depth or being less fleshed out" than the rest IMO. However it is subjective like you said for example, some may not value the contunity from Mass Effect in Garrus/Tali romance.

Modifié par strive, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[flemm]

It's cool. Other than LotSB being the most convincing romance stuff overall in the game, I don't think I really agree with your assessment. But it's been good talking.

Actually off to bed myself

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Ieldra]

Opedal wrote...
Did you guys know Miranda isnt gonna be voiced by Yvonne Strahovsky, like in ME2?

Heres the source from the lead writer himself, its kind of old though, beeing from July.

https://twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives

Scroll down to the 25th of July, and click the post where Miranda is mentioned, and you will see the question and answer.

You're quoting this out of context. This is part of a continiung exchange. A few tweets earlier, he said there were going to be 3 more VO sessions for ME. Someone then said "I hope it's Yvonne Strahovski voicing Miranda" which got the answer "I can safely say, it is not. Sorry. But I can tell you I have several Miranda scenes to review when I get back!"

Which tells us two things: (1) Those VO sessions were not Yvonne voicing Miranda, (2) Miranda has at least "several" scenes in ME3.