82210 réponses à ce sujet

[goofyomnivore]

flemm wrote...

It's cool. Other than LotSB being the most convincing romance stuff overall in the game, I don't think I really agree with your assessment. But it's been good talking.

Actually off to bed myself

I probably didn't do a good job of explaining what I mean. But you know different strokes for different folks.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
Truth be told, I'm not very confortable with the idea of Miranda being one of the rotating squadmates. Squadmate status is not a guarantee of relevant screentime for her.
Arguably, Liara had a much more satisfying role than Tali in ME2 and all she had was one mission.

What we didn't have with Liara was several conversations spanning the whole game.

Sure, if I was asked if I wanted Miranda's presence to be Liara-like or Tali-like, I'd rather have the latter just because Liara has a larger role in the plot, but there isn't any reason why there can't be both - a big role in the plot *and* significant screen presence. If Miranda can be rotated out by our decisions that will just mean those who do so will miss some or all of her content. They did say there would be more replayability in ME3, and that means that there will be more content not seen in every playthrough.

[Ieldra]

mauro2222 wrote...
Can I ask something? I mean I`m not a fan of Miranda but, maybe you guys know better.

Is there any info regarding her "loyalty"?

What I would like to know if she is going to betray Shep... that would be interesting, and I think it would fit her character really well, after all she was "The Loyalist".

I don't think it will happen. It would only make sense if MIranda is not loyal and you kept the base. That's much too rare to write something as big as a betrayal exclusively for this situation.

What I can see is that TIM manipulates her into seeing things his way, making her think that Shepard is a danger to humanity's future. But even then, Miranda would speak with Shepard before doing anything drastic. I can imagine that Shepard might only be able to convince her if she was loyal in ME2. If not, you're forced to kill her.

[Ieldra]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
One thing to note about that is that there are no permanent squadmates in ME3...just that some will stay longer with you than others...and it seems that VS and Vega are likely it (so far)

Casey Hudson said there would be "core characters around which the story revolves" (GI interview, March). The members of that core squad might not exactly be permanent because anyone can die, but what we mean when we're speaking of "Miranda as a permanent squadmate" is "Will Miranda be part of that core squad", because it's almost guaranteed that these characters will have significantly more screen time, more on-mission comments, more squad banter and a more important role in the plot than the others, at least if you don't kill them early.

So that's it: I want Miranda to be part of that core squad, and anything less will be a disappointment. WIth so much Cerberus being in the plot of ME3, she has more story potential than any other returning team member, and if ME3 fails to realize that in favor of someone else with less potential or even worse, a newcomer, it would be hugely annoying.

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Going back to the whole Pragmatic vs. Emotional/Romantic debate, can't Miranda demonstrate both characteristics? Granted I see her dominant personality trait being cool and business-like, but when it comes to people like Oriana she can be a little more emotional, this also applies to the romance depending on how you play it.

That's exactly what the "rational Miranda" faction wants. That she's detached, rational and professional when on a mission and doesn't let her emotions interfere with it. She can be emotional in romance scenes or around people she personally cares about like Oriana all right. Basically, what we don't want is that her professionalism and competence as an operative is damaged by her being unduly sentimental. In her own words: "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere". So as long as they don't interfere, it's all right. 

Nice conversation, btw. As usual.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 27 septembre 2011 - 07:48 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
And on a lighter note, anyone else feel Miranda sells herself short in the humor department? She's very dry and deadpan in my current game.

Absolutely. How about we collect the lines where she makes dry comments like that.

Here are two:
When entering the first room on the derelict Reaper:
"This is not the most organized project I've ever seen".

On her LM, to Niket, if you don't use the Paragon interrupt:
"I'm going to miss you....." *shoots Niket* "....figuratively speaking"

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Collider wrote...
Is anyone else irritated by Miranda's issues with the genetic modifications done on her? It feels tired, unnecessary, and overblown. Moreover, it damages the "confident, competent" operative feel that I actually like about her and almost completely destroys it.

Speaking for myself personally, not at all. I do think her character arc should involve overcoming that angst, but it's good that it's there as an obstacle. As for it conflicting to an extent with her confidence (definitely) and maybe competence (slightly), that's the whole point really. You don't get a fully-realized character without some issues of that nature for the character to struggle with.

Edit: It's also true, as jtav points out below, that it's partly the abuse that she's struggling with, not really the enhancements per se. So that complicates matters further (also good imo).

I'm irritated only by the possibility that this is meant to convey a message about the supposed evils of genetic engineering (which I would hate beyond all measure). I like her issues as a obstacle, but it should be more about the emotional abuse undermining her self-confidence which in turn makes her uncomfortable about her origins.

I'll be all right with it if she will overcome that self-esteem problem, make peace with her origins and embrace what she is. Genetic improvements are no guarantee for achievements, these are all her own. They just make it possible for her to achieve more than normal humans. And she's done that. She's done the nigh-impossible with bringing Shepard back. There's every reason for her to appreciate her gifts and none at all to feel insecure. 

[Ieldra]

Dr. Doctor wrote...
That line where Miranda calls Shepard "the best that humanity has to offer" really made me wish that there was an option that didn't stroke Shepard's ego:

Yep. I'm fine with "I don't have what you have...that fire that makes others follow you into hell itself". That's just an acknowledgement of Shepard's inspiring leadership. But "You're the best humanity has to offer" is...sickening....

Miranda: I don't have what you have Shepard.

Shepard: And I don't have what you have either. You're brilliant, you can do anything that you put your mind to. You pioneered what is possibly the greatest medical advancement in history, organized this entire mission, and yet I'm the best that humanity has to offer? I'm just a soldier who ended up on the wrong side of a Prothean artifact, that's all.

Miranda: You're selling yourself short.

Shepard: So are you.

Miranda: (sighs) Are we just going to continue this back and forth until one of us gives in?

Shepard: (moves closer to Miranda)  You know me, I'm persistant.

Miranda: (smiles) Don't get cocky, I put you back together and I do damn good work.

Shepard: See, that's the spirit.

Miranda: (chuckles) You ass.

(the two kiss)

Oh....very nice. This would've been much better.

[AstronautN7]

jtav wrote...

Just a general question inspired by my current dilemma.

What would you sacrifice in game terms to keep Miranda alive?

I'm prepared to sacrify the Normandy crew (well what's left of her), most of my squad, some races I don't like and as an ultimate one, myself in order to keep Miranda alive.

I believe anyway that in ME3 we'll have at least one if not more save race x, at the cost of race y scenarios and loose or nearly wipe out one of them regardless of what we do.

Speaking of  the Normandy crew, is there a way after they get abducted for Joker, Doctor Chakvas, Kenn and Gaby to survive, but Kelly, the Cook and all others to die?

[Ieldra]

AstronautN7 wrote...

jtav wrote...
What would you sacrifice in game terms to keep Miranda alive?

I'm prepared to sacrify the Normandy crew (well what's left of her), most of my squad, some races I don't like and as an ultimate one, myself in order to keep Miranda alive.

Yep, the same with my canon Shepard. Others won't go that far, but seriously I don't think we'll need to.

Speaking of  the Normandy crew, is there a way after they get abducted for Joker, Doctor Chakvas, Kenn and Gaby to survive, but Kelly, the Cook and all others to die?

I don't think so. I don't know exactly who dies in scenarios where you lose half the crew, but Gabby will always die while Ken will survive. 

[nitefyre410]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dr. Doctor wrote...
Going back to the whole Pragmatic vs. Emotional/Romantic debate, can't Miranda demonstrate both characteristics? Granted I see her dominant personality trait being cool and business-like, but when it comes to people like Oriana she can be a little more emotional, this also applies to the romance depending on how you play it.

That's exactly what the "rational Miranda" faction wants. That she's detached, rational and professional when on a mission and doesn't let her emotions interfere with it. She can be emotional in romance scenes or around people she personally cares about like Oriana all right. Basically, what we don't want is that her professionalism and competence as an operative is damaged by her being unduly sentimental. In her own words: "The mission is too important to let personal feelings interfere". So as long as they don't interfere, it's all right. 

Nice conversation, btw. As usual.

  


Pretty much this - though with destruction  on the scale of which we should see when the Reapers start falling out of the sky. It would  nice the emotional shock from  every upon seeing the Reaper lay waste to entire citty. Seeing the Extermination  while its happing - she is professional but no human  can  be stone in the site of that.  Not that I wont her to completly snap but   small amount of doubt before the iron will of ass kickary kicks in.   She grabs a group  of Alliances Mairnes who are completely cut in the Choas starts giving orders.  Ya'll get the **** -  give Shepard  a plan...  


Shepard: **** we need a plan 

Miranda: I do believe  I have one, going to need a distraction  now ... *explains the Plan* 


Shepard:  Grunt,   Garrus,  Jack get over here 

*Five minutes later, smoking a cigar" 

Miranda: I love it when a good plan comes together.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
I'm irritated only by the possibility that this is meant to convey a message about the supposed evils of genetic engineering (which I would hate beyond all measure).

Hmm, yeah, I could see that. It's one of those things that hangs on further developments in ME3/completion of Miranda's character arc, though. Don't really get the feeling there is an anti-genetic engineering "message" there, but you never know.

Ieldra2 wrote...
So that's it: I want Miranda to be part of that core squad, and anything less will be a disappointment. WIth so much Cerberus being in the plot of ME3, she has more story potential than any other returning team member, and if ME3 fails to realize that in favor of someone else with less potential or even worse, a newcomer, it would be hugely annoying.

Well, I think the core squad in that quote probably refers to characters that cannot be dead. The game is going to have to adjust for Miranda's absence. But that should not prevent her from having extended squad presence, and several missions where she plays a key role.

nitefyre410 wrote...
*Five minutes later, smoking a cigar"

Miranda: I love it when a good plan comes together.

LoL

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 12:56 .

[nitefyre410]

Internet Cookies for those get name the reference I just made.

[Prudii Aden]

Make it difficult won't you? You're inferring that Miranda is like Hannibal? What does that make the rest of the cast?

[nitefyre410]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Make it difficult won't you? You're inferring that Miranda is like Hannibal? What does that make the rest of the cast?

Grunt:   BA 

Mordin: Murdock  

Shepard: Face   

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
So that's it: I want Miranda to be part of that core squad, and anything less will be a disappointment. WIth so much Cerberus being in the plot of ME3, she has more story potential than any other returning team member, and if ME3 fails to realize that in favor of someone else with less potential or even worse, a newcomer, it would be hugely annoying.

Well, I think the core squad in that quote probably refers to characters that cannot be dead. The game is going to have to adjust for Miranda's absence. But that should not prevent her from having extended squad presence, and several missions where she plays a key role.

So the core squad consists of......Liara and Vega plus either Ashley or Kaidan? That's a bit thin, don't you think? Anyway you are right that this needn't prevent Miranda from having an extended presence. But Miranda not being in that group reduces her chances.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
So the core squad consists of......Liara and Vega plus either Ashley or Kaidan? That's a bit thin, don't you think? Anyway you are right that this needn't prevent Miranda from having an extended presence. But Miranda not being in that group reduces her chances.

Well, we were speculating about this earlier, and of course we are just speculating. But I think, almost by definition, the core squad would have to be those characters who cannot be dead in imported games (since the story has to work with everybody else missing).

I think that core group, which would be like the minimum group needed to complete the game, might be very small this time around. VS, Liara, Vega, maybe one or two more at most.

The other possibility, raised by jtav, would be more characters getting set up with a sort of VS-esque alter ego who performs the same plot functions in the character's absence. I think that's less likely but, where Miranda is concerned, I suppose it is still possible.

Doesn't really matter, since either way Miranda could and should have a big role. It's just a question of whether the devs make it happen or not. I think they will, Strahovski permitting

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 01:48 .

[jtav]

flemm, you're slightly mischaracterizing me. What I mean is something like KOTOR 2, with a choice element. You get one of however many fully realized squad members depending on your choices. For example, in KOTOR 2, you got either the good or evil bounty hunter. And otherwise they were completely different.

And what I meant be my need to resign is that Miranda is going to die. Again. By accident this time because I got cocky about how much I could skip and had to choose between her and Jack. Jack's disloyalty would lead to additional deaths beyond her, so I'm minimizing casualties.

[Graceyn]

So I was just idly speculating (in my head), and considered another option to Miranda being on the core squad - we could kill The Illusive Man and give Cerberus to Miranda, after which they would quit fighting us and start fighting on our side against the Reapers .  Then I made a manip for it:


Source

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

flemm, you're slightly mischaracterizing me. What I mean is something like KOTOR 2, with a choice element. You get one of however many fully realized squad members depending on your choices. For example, in KOTOR 2, you got either the good or evil bounty hunter. And otherwise they were completely different.

Thank you for that clarification, my mistake. And, yeah, to the extent that the squad works differently in ME3, which seems increasingly likely, then something like that makes sense: a small core group that basically doesn't vary, except possibly due to big choices late in the game, with other companions being dependant on player choice, either because they draw from a pool of available options, or because there is some sort of either/or type of choice.

But maybe all companions can be ditched/lost/alienated, etc. in ME3. It's not especially far-fetched. It's possible to complete DA:O, I believe, with no companions at all. And that might be a fairly similar story overall, given the focus on recruiting factions for a big battle.

Graceyn wrote...
 Then I made a manip for it:

Cool

And, yeah, it's a pretty popular idea around here, in one form or another.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[Graceyn]

flemm wrote...

Graceyn wrote...
 Then I made a manip for it:

Cool

And, yeah, it's a pretty popular idea around here, in one form or another.

Sorry for the repeat then - though I'm not arrogant enough to imagine I was the first person ever to think of it, lol .  600 pages is just toooo many, so I just drop in when I can.

[jtav]

600? It's far older than that. But nobody's done a manip before. I love it.

[flemm]

Graceyn wrote...

Sorry for the repeat then - though I'm not arrogant enough to imagine I was the first person ever to think of it, lol .  600 pages is just toooo many, so I just drop in when I can.

Oh, absolutely, no need to apologize! That isn't what I meant at all. If repeating stuff made apologies necessary we'd need another thread just for that lol.

Just saying that it's an idea that has quite a bit of support :happy:

Others would rather see Miranda ditch Cerberus entirely, but what you're suggesting is probably a dream scenario for some. Anyway, very cool manip.

Modifié par flemm, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[Skullheart]

Well, this tweet is from 2 days ago.

"The assumption of "rotating squadmembers" (no choice) is inaccurate."

What you think?

[jtav]

*raises hand* Dream scenario.

Objectively speaking, how do you think Miranda will rank in terms of overall impact? I can save Miranda if and only if I deliberately throw the Tali-Legion confrontation and get Tali killed instead.