Ieldra2
Yeah i could be seeing subtelty where its not supposed to be i agree, i just think its harder to take the line as literal as you seem to be taking it. To sum up something in one line is extremely hard so imo your supposed to take it however you want, to me that implies subtelty to you not so much.
In terms of a heel/face turn as you put it (nice phrasing) in some ways your right and its also supposed to come across like that imo. You say Miranda wasn't a villain to begin with, i agree, but she also wasn't the most sympathetic of characters either, imo its shows she's changed in this regard also.
As for the love redeems and making her professional side subservient to her romantic one, well again this is the point. The line is said only about a romanced Miranda, if you don't romance her you don't hear it, so yes it is in some way saying love redeems and that she is in fact subservient to her romantic side. But in a way thats how Bioware handles a lot or romances, the bad girl saved by the good protagonist making her change her own views or the good girl made bad by the evil protagonist changing her views. They use romance to change the characters or romancable characters, its what they do and what they will probably continue to do.
As for how much change Miranda has gone through, again i agree with you, not a huge leap by any stretch. Her attitude in regards to herself that you point out as not being different though is actually what proves the change imo. Its not what she says showing she's changed but the mere fact she says it, she admits it, not something she would have done prior to meeting Shepard.
Yes she inspires loyalty and she cares and you could be right about the crew, although Jack and Garrus's reaction when you put her in charge of the first fire team shows some may not respect or trust her just yet. Her impression that she gives off when first met or first worked with is what Liara would know and why Liara would see a subtle change that even Shepard has not.
On the reserved personality being wrong, if i implied that's what i meant or what i said then i unreservedly aplogise. That wasn't my intention and if thats how it came across i'm very sorry.
What i meant was that in opening up to Shepard its opened up her personality even more, that the fact that she was reserved might not have allowed it to do otherwise. First impressions don't always portray people in the best light and Miranda's first impression and reserved nature might not have always allowed people to see the person underneath. Its not so much a question of changing Miranda for the better rather than allowing a second or third impression to be formed giving a fuller picture if you get me. One thing the romance with Miranda imo did really well was to show that who you thought she might be was not in fact who she really was, that beneath the initial impression there was a hell of a lot more substance.
What i meant about Miranda caring about Shepard wasn't so much that she cared but more how much she cared, like you say with Oriana she cares above everything else. I think she also feels the same about Shepard, that unlike other romances she may have had in the past, this one is different and her feelings in regard to it are also different.
For example i think she'd be upset if Jacob died, she clearly cares about him you can see it in his LM but i think if Shepard died it'll be akin to losing Oriana.Thats what i meant, yes it doesn't mean her attitude to anyone else may have changed but the fact that she might care about someone as deeply as she does about Shepard is in fact a big change especially in the Miranda that Liara knew.
Lastly on the 3 points you bring up Miranda caring about others, her views on humanity and the dossiers in regards to my saying she's changed considerably.
1. i agree she cares about others, but in some cases this pre Shepard was only specific, now i think she cares more generally. I think before Shepard she like cerberus was an ends justify the means kinda person, now she questions it more.
2. No her views on humanity might not have changed, but her views on cerberus and thier methods has, which in itself is a huge change from the pro cerberus Miranda at the beginning of me2.
3. The dossiers, i agree not the best but some info there adds to the character which was my point, There are things in the dossier that show a different side to Miranda a side that may and i certainly believe has changed.
I hope not all of the info gets carried forward, but some of it does need to be adressed and resolved.
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