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[flemm]

jtav wrote...
You know, the increasing likelihood of MP makes now a good time to pacify the fanbase by announcing a returning squad member...

What... Do I detect a note of optimism... Can it be?

Surely I'm mistaken

It brings Miranda tears to my eyes...

Modifié par flemm, 03 octobre 2011 - 12:17 .

[pancholonita]

Nice new image of miranda.

[Golden Owl]

Hello Miranda fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Miranda not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

[pancholonita]

jtav wrote...

Oh, yes. She'd be livid. And my MaleShep would totally do it. Miranda's kind of it in the emotional support department. Anything for her.

You know, the increasing likelihood of MP makes now a good time to pacify the fanbase by announcing a returning squad member...

How many possibilities you have miranda?

Modifié par pancholonita, 03 octobre 2011 - 12:42 .

[jtav]

Oh, I don't think they'll actually announce anything, and I don't think she's full squad. Merely that now would be a good time to showcase a returnee.

And I think Miranda is ruthless, though not to TIM's degree.

[naledgeborn]

Golden Owl wrote...

Hello Miranda fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Miranda not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Miranda is ruthless. Unlike the others she's the cold inpersonal kind. But ruthless can be used to describe just about every squad member besides maybe Tali, Jacob, or Kaidan.

[flemm]

Golden Owl wrote...
Hello Miranda fans....Someone just challenged me on another thread in regards to 'Ruthlessness'...I have decided to examine it further in regards to the NPC's involved....So question for you: "Why in your perceptions is Miranda not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Well, if the question is just, "Is she ruthless?", then the answer is yes, definitely, though within certain bounds. Depending on what choices you make, she may evolve to be somewhat less so over the course of the game.

Having seen the exchange in the other thread, you seem to equate ruthlessness with selfishness, i.e. she is only interested in herself and doesn't care about others. This I think is not supported by the material in the game. She believes in her cause, which is Cerberus' cause, or at least her perception of it. In that sense, she's an idealist.

And that idealism seems to take a back seat compared to her love for her sister, Oriana. Even her ex, Jacob, can take precedence over Cerberus rules and regulations (Jacob's loyalty mission). So, Miranda is the loyalist in more ways than one. Yes, she is loyal to Cerberus, but she is also loyal to the people she cares about and trusts, including, in the end, Shepard.

So, anyway, those are my thoughts.

Modifié par flemm, 03 octobre 2011 - 12:55 .

[Eyeshield21]

d140 wrote...

 Miranda is ruthless and i like that she is as well. 

I do too(just be nicer to shep and only shep, like if anyone else was in the room she would act normally, but if it's just Miri and Shep alone in a room, talking one on one, she is a lot nicer, if you romanced her at least.)

[jtav]

As for her resignation, it's actually fairly well foreshadowed. The opening scene of the game shows us Miranda being told how important Shepard is. The Lazarus Project was "Miranda's baby." And we are shown that Miranda values Jacob above Cerberus regulations. She is all about the mission--except when she asks you to help with Oriana. Her sister is important enough that she asks you to risk your life over it. Shepard refuses by saying "You know what's at stake on this mission, Miranda. We can't afford delays for personal matters." That's normally her line. Miranda's loyalty to her friends and loved ones is nearly absolute. If Miranda is loyal, Sgepard is part of that group. TIM's final order is a personal and professional betrayal. Professional because TIM is asking her to destroy the very man he order her to spend two years to save. And it's personal because he's asking her to turn her back on a friend. And that Miranda will not do.

So, far from coming from nowhere, the resignation is something that *must* happen if Miranda's loyal there.

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

As for her resignation, it's actually fairly well foreshadowed. The opening scene of the game shows us Miranda being told how important Shepard is. The Lazarus Project was "Miranda's baby." And we are shown that Miranda values Jacob above Cerberus regulations. She is all about the mission--except when she asks you to help with Oriana. Her sister is important enough that she asks you to risk your life over it. Shepard refuses by saying "You know what's at stake on this mission, Miranda. We can't afford delays for personal matters." That's normally her line. Miranda's loyalty to her friends and loved ones is nearly absolute. If Miranda is loyal, Sgepard is part of that group. TIM's final order is a personal and professional betrayal. Professional because TIM is asking her to destroy the very man he order her to spend two years to save. And it's personal because he's asking her to turn her back on a friend. And that Miranda will not do.

So, far from coming from nowhere, the resignation is something that *must* happen if Miranda's loyal there.

I agree, and she'll probably be fighting ceberus in ME3.

[flemm]

If Ieldra drops by to extol the virtues of Miranda's betrayal line at the CB, I will start to believe that I am being punked or something... Or that accounts are being hacked...

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

If Ieldra drops by to extol the virtues of Miranda's betrayal line at the CB, I will start to believe that I am being punked or something... Or that accounts are being hacked...

damn, that would be scary.

[jtav]

Oh, no. I hate the betrayal line as much as ever, but that's separate from her resignation. I also keep the base myself. But see, I'm willing to meet you half way.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
But see, I'm willing to meet you half way.

And I can ask for no more than that

I do believe that, as you say, there is quite a bit of foreshadowing there. It's somewhat choice-dependant, and the resignation is still a significant step. But there are signs.

Modifié par flemm, 03 octobre 2011 - 01:17 .

[jtav]

There are things I would change. Making it dependent on loyalty (she's dead if she's unloyal anyway). I'd also have her originally recommend keeping the base, and have the scene more tension filled. But, overall, the resignation is fairly well done. And notice I don't say she must resign period--only in the situation TIM puts her in if you destroy the base.

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

There are things I would change. Making it dependent on loyalty (she's dead if she's unloyal anyway). I'd also have her originally recommend keeping the base, and have the scene more tension filled. But, overall, the resignation is fairly well done. And notice I don't say she must resign period--only in the situation TIM puts her in if you destroy the base.

I agree with this, but she probably resigned even if the scene doesn't happen.

[MisterJB]

Golden Owl wrote...
"Why in your perceptions is Miranda not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Miranda is ruthless, there is no doubt about it. However, only in the sense that she considers the mission (if important enough which it certainly is in ME2) to be above almost everything else.
Yes, Miranda considers the crew to be expendable. That does not mean she does not care about them. Ex: Miranda expresses anger at all the lives that were lost in the Lazarus Project just to bring back Shepard (who she considered to be a waste of time and resources at the time), she makes sure that the family of one of the crewmembers were safe, she says that she is happy to find the crew alive in the Collector base.
Miranda cares about the people working under her, she simply realizes that the mission must come first.

On an unrelated note, you also called Miranda self centric which is, IMO, one of the most unfair things people tend to say about Miranda.
Miranda has her issues regarding her genetic engineering and her place in the Galaxy that Shepard can discuss with her. However, selfish she is not. She abandoned a life that was partially of wealth. With her skills, she could have become anything she wanted, she could have endured her father and eventually inherith/steal his fortune, she could have started her own business , she could have even rised high in the ranks of mercenary groups like the Blue Suns. Instead, she threw away everything she ever owned and joined Cerberus, a group that works towards the benefit of humanity without being slowed down by politics.
And not just that, she went so far as to return to the house of the man who hunted her for years to rescue a sister she had never met.
For the entirety of her adult life, Miranda dedicated her whole self to the advancement of a race that calls her a terrorist and the protection of a sister who does not even know she exists because contact might put Oriana in danger.
Has there ever been anyone more selfless that Miranda?

Modifié par MisterJB, 03 octobre 2011 - 01:35 .

[Golden Owl]

MisterJB wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
"Why in your perceptions is Miranda not ruthless?....Examples included please?"

Miranda is ruthless, there is no doubt about it. However, only in the sense that she considers the mission (if important enough which it certainly is in ME2) to be above almost everything else.
Yes, Miranda considers the crew to be expendable. That does not mean she does not care about them. Ex: Miranda expresses anger at all the lives that were lost in the Lazarus Project just to bring back Shepard (who she considered to be a waste of time and resources at the time), she makes sure that the family of one of the crewmembers were safe, she says that she is happy to find the crew alive in the Collector base.
Miranda cares about the people working under her, she simply realizes that the mission must come first.

On an unrelated note, you also called Miranda self centric which is, IMO, one of the most unfair things people tend to say about Miranda.
Miranda has her issues regarding her genetic engineering and her place in the Galaxy that Sheprd can discuss with her. However, selfish she is not. She abandoned a life that was partially of wealth. With her skills, she could have become anything she wanted, she could have endured her father and eventually inherith/steal his fortune, she could have started her own business , she could have even rised high in the ranks of mercenary groups like the Blue Suns. Instead, she threw away everything she ever owned and joined Cerberus, a group that works towards the benefit of humanity without being slowed down by politics.
And not just that, she went so far as to return to the house of the man that hunted her for years to rescue a sister she had never met.
For the entirety of her adult life, Miranda dedicated her whole self to the advancement of a race that calls her a terrorist and the protection of a sister who does not even know she exists because contact might put Oriana in danger.
Has there ever been anyone more selfless that Miranda?

I have a personal rule....'Never troll a Fan Thread'...sorry I would rather keep my personal views of Miranda seperate from the Miranda Fan Thread...I would be happy to discuss this elsewhere with you though...The question I posted in this thread is exactly the same as I have posted in the other threads related to the NPC's in question.

[Xilizhra]

Has there ever been anyone more selfless that Miranda?

Yes. Not that she's particularly selfish, as such.

[flemm]

Golden Owl wrote...
I have a personal rule....'Never troll a Fan Thread'...sorry I would rather keep my personal views of Miranda seperate from the Miranda Fan Thread...I would be happy to discuss this elsewhere with you though...The question I posted in this thread is exactly the same as I have posted in the other threads related to the NPC's in question.

Ok, but ruthlessness vs. selfishness is an important distinction where Miranda is concerned. She is one, but not the other. You didn't specifically ask about the selfishness point in this thread, but since it's relevant to the discussion in question, I think it's fair that we address it.

Modifié par flemm, 03 octobre 2011 - 01:42 .

[jtav]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

jtav wrote...

There are things I would change. Making it dependent on loyalty (she's dead if she's unloyal anyway). I'd also have her originally recommend keeping the base, and have the scene more tension filled. But, overall, the resignation is fairly well done. And notice I don't say she must resign period--only in the situation TIM puts her in if you destroy the base.

I agree with this, but she probably resigned even if the scene doesn't happen.

Maybe. She certainly doesn't try to stop you and don't imagine whether she resigned will be flagged, only whether you kept the base. But that still leaves games where you kept the base. And I could see her staying or rejoining Cerberus to keep Oriana safe.

And hear, hear! to MisterJB! Ruthless, yes. Selfish, no.

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

jtav wrote...

There are things I would change. Making it dependent on loyalty (she's dead if she's unloyal anyway). I'd also have her originally recommend keeping the base, and have the scene more tension filled. But, overall, the resignation is fairly well done. And notice I don't say she must resign period--only in the situation TIM puts her in if you destroy the base.

I agree with this, but she probably resigned even if the scene doesn't happen.

Maybe. She certainly doesn't try to stop you and don't imagine whether she resigned will be flagged, only whether you kept the base. But that still leaves games where you kept the base. And I could see her staying or rejoining Cerberus to keep Oriana safe.

And hear, hear! to MisterJB! Ruthless, yes. Selfish, no.

I agree, but only nice to shep!(espesially if romanced!)