82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Melrache wrote...
I have to say, that I like the outfit, I disagree with the zipper though

Oookay. I understand. I'd like a scene where the zipper goes in the other direction. But only for Shepard's eyes, please.

I also approve of Miri voicing her opinion, no matter what it is. It's how things should go, you have a concern in group -> you get it out of your chest. Better safe than sorry. Being an XO is sometimes about challenging the person in charge, there has to be someone to challenge his thinking sometimes and help him come up with better ideas.

If one person, just goes ''We do this... because I feel like it today'' **** will start to hit the fan. If it goes like ''We do this because.. I feel like it'' ''Are you sure? Have you thought, what could result from such action?'' ''... True, we probably should do it like this instead''.

I do agree. I have nothing against anyone voicing an opinion that doesnt match Shepard's on the ship. But that opinion, too, should be carried by valid reasoning instead of sentimentality, especially in the case of Miranda, who isn't big on sentimentality.

Just my... few puny cents, that weren't already donated to Greece.

I see we're in the same boat :/

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[Vertigo_1]

Melrache wrote...
Just my... few puny cents, that weren't already donated to Greece.

???
You're Greek too?

and that Summer Glau picture: I approve and agree with Iedra2: zipper closed; expect when romance scene starts

[Vertigo_1]

WOOT:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/83660842033356800
"Wow, 65 pages of love for Miranda! She'll be in #ME3 of course, but we'll keep scale of all roles a suprise."

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 22 juin 2011 - 10:23 .

[TomY90]

Ieldra2 wrote...

TomY90 wrote...
I think MisterJB hit the nail on the head with that one but to me the part with miranda at the end with her talking about the decision was actually well done involving you destroying the collector base and they could not add any commentary to her leaving cerberus incase she was not with you when you choose to do so.

No, that was not well done. She doesn't even acknowledge that there could've been something important to find in the base, even after some time to think about it. Totally unbelievable. I could live with her comment after you keep the base ("I hope what is in the base is worth it"). At least she acknowledges it there. To have doubts, that's perfectly understandable for anyone here, but for Miranda to have none about destroying the base, that's unbelievable.

But again, her leaving Cerberus at that point is NOT canon. I don't know why everyone takes it as a given that she does. She only does when you take her with you, and.....is there nobody else but me here who regularly keeps the base? Like, btw, 37% of all players do? People seem to have such a desperate need to see her part ways with Cerberus, I can't understand it. Cerberus is not the enemy, damn it, at least not as of ME2. The Reapers are. People seem to forget that. Cerberus may be ugly enough, but it's nothing, NOTHING against the Reapers. That's why we work with them.

I understand where you are coming from on the dialogue front on regret but I think they did that on purpose so that you have some dialogue with Miranda during ME3 about it all and she will likely express possible regret about it all on the collector base. (it would be more fitting as well during the ME3 story considering its more of a struggle than an outright victory as it was in ME2)

I think the whole thing with cerberus and Miranda is unique for one most people dislike Cerberus considering as you said 63% of people destroyed the base and Miranda is one of the most popular characters in the series so it makes perfect sense why people want her to leave cerberus due to them not liking cerberus.

[TomY90]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

WOOT:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/83660842033356800
"Wow, 65 pages of love for Miranda! She'll be in #ME3 of course, but we'll keep scale of all roles a suprise."

damn it, stop teasing me(sorry for the poor Gabby and Ken impression). Guessing we will not find out then until we get our twitching gaming hands on ME3 lol

Modifié par TomY90, 22 juin 2011 - 10:29 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I think they skipped several steps regarding Miranda's doubts about Cerberus being convincing. The doubt needed to build as the story progressed and one or two easily missed lines don't count. I don't find it convincing at all. It could have been made convincing, but they needed to slow down.

I don't think it was the writers' intention to make her doubt Cerberus no matter what. Because even in the romance scene with the kiss, she defends them, and never goes back on that in later conversations. At that point, very likely you'll have already done Jack's LM and the Collector Ship, so her optional line at the base, that you don't even get if you take the middle option with TIM, stands alone against the non-optional and quite dedicated defense of Cerberus in that conversation.

I want my reserved, hyper-practical operative back.

Me too. I want her romance to be a different domain than her professional life.

[alperez]

Ieldra2

I agree with you completely on the collector base, its completely ooc even in what i perceive to be a changed Miranda's character. Personally i've always felt though the intention was to show you the player that destroying the base was a good idea, they just assassinated certain characters to do so.

[MisterJB]

Ieldra2 wrote...
People seem to have such a desperate need to see her part ways with Cerberus, I can't understand it. Cerberus is not the enemy, damn it, at least not as of ME2. The Reapers are. People seem to forget that. Cerberus may be ugly enough, but it's nothing, NOTHING against the Reapers. That's why we work with them.

I myself would have no problems working with Cerberus in ME3 but I hold Miranda to an higher standard. And since there's no option to keep the Base but not give it to anyone or other way for Miranda to resign, Base goes BOOM.

I dread to think about what will happen after the war is over and there's countless pieces of Reaper tec for everyone to grab and study.
Give them six months and the Salarians will have Indocrination guns.

[O Tucker]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

WOOT:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/83660842033356800
"Wow, 65 pages of love for Miranda! She'll be in #ME3 of course, but we'll keep scale of all roles a suprise."

Am commander shepard and this sounds very promising Bioware must then now how much we love Miranda and want her back

[alperez]

MisterJB wrote...


Was it really? I mean, how do we know this? Even if Shepard commits the ultimate sin of siding with Jack, Miranda will still argue against keeping the base.
It seems to me that Miranda doesn't really change on this aspect, she just opened her eyes and saw Cerberus for what really is.
She says that before the mission, she would never had doubted its objective. Does that mean that Pre-Lazarus Miranda would have wanted to keep the base, would that Miranda approve of the experiments on Pragia?
The truth is, we have nothing to compare it to.

Ok i concede that maybe i'm wrong on this point, i could be taking my own view of the character and allowing it to cloud my judgement somewhat. The collectors base and the endfight with the reaper baby are basically the 2 times it shows, her resignation from cerberus and what she says regarding what Shepard's done with the base.

As ooc as what i think she say's regarding the collector base may be, that and her resignation to me showed a distinct change in her views on Cerberus and their methods. I believe that was the intention with her resignation especially (although it only happens if you play a certain way), to show that she no longer believed everything Cerberus did was right.

So maybe changed her views was the wrong phrase and i should instead say questioned them.

[Ieldra]

TomY90 wrote...
I think the whole thing with cerberus and Miranda is unique for one most people dislike Cerberus considering as you said 63% of people destroyed the base and Miranda is one of the most popular characters in the series so it makes perfect sense why people want her to leave cerberus due to them not liking cerberus.

Of course I understand that. I do not keep the base because I like them - that's another frequent misunderstanding. I only think that people are blinded by their emotions in this: that they consider Cerberus not getting the base as more important than getting every bit of information about the Reapers out of it.

The thing is, the decision about the base should not be primarity about Cerberus, because they are the lesser evil. Something Miranda would know and consider when making her recommendation, even had she already broken with Cerberus in her mind. I'll let the stress factor count for the situation on the base, but back on the SR2 she should have had serious doubts about having destroyed it.

As for Miranda's views about Cerberus, I repeat: as late as the second romance conversation she praises them. Non-optional. It's not even romance-exclusive since this is before you must make a decision between concurring romances. And she only says her line on the base if you *immediately* jump to "I'll keep it" instead of taking the much more reasonable middle option and ask TIM what he'd do with the base before he decides. So no, I do not think that her views on Cerberus change a lot.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 juin 2011 - 10:41 .

[Caihn]

MACharlie1 wrote...

 Miranda won't be as judgemental when Shepard selects the fire team leader nor will she be against sending someone back with the crew. 

 

She's not against the idea of sending someone escort the crew.
First she says that they (the team) can't afford to go back. Then, you can decide to send one squadmate escort the crew, and she doesn't object.

*ignore the CB discussion* 

[Repearized Miranda]

My two cents:

Most are saying the Keep/Destroy base argument was poorly written. Maybe it was, but I beg to differ. Here's why. Given that TIM can't be trusted (even Renegades "can't" do it), I think with what Miranda said means that she saw what was happening and simply changed her mind. She never really had faith in TIM from the start. It had to be more than a simple, abrupt, "script-the-flip" kind of thing. (Pun intended.)

If most remember at the beginning of the game - regardless of your meter, Shepard does not trust Cerberus - doesn't mean s/he should be an ass to Miranda, Jacob or both. Remember Miranda's dismay over Jacob "having a conscience"? Now, when we get to Horizon, obviously the belief doesn't change. I mean, it's like Shep may as well have an "I'm With Cerberus" tag because s/he's sick of everybody believing this lie! This would be no different if Cerberus members chummed it up with Alliance members. (I wonder how Ash/Kaidan would react then?)

Back to Miranda (and possibly Jacob), she opened her eyes about her boss once she realized the consequences of keeping the base - seeing him for who he really was. How is this different from Shepard telling Udina to **** off? once s/he is privy of his "potential" dirty work? (ie: Anderson/Udina Council status colored appropriately in ME1)

[Ieldra]

O Tucker wrote...

Vertigo_1 wrote...

WOOT:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/83660842033356800
"Wow, 65 pages of love for Miranda! She'll be in #ME3 of course, but we'll keep scale of all roles a suprise."

Am commander shepard and this sounds very promising  Bioware must then now how much we love Miranda and want her back

I think you may overestimating our importance considerably but it's nice to be acknowledged.

[Melra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Melrache wrote...
I have to say, that I like the outfit, I disagree with the zipper though

Oookay. I understand. I'd like a scene where the zipper goes in the other direction. But only for Shepard's eyes, please.

I also approve of Miri voicing her opinion, no matter what it is. It's how things should go, you have a concern in group -> you get it out of your chest. Better safe than sorry. Being an XO is sometimes about challenging the person in charge, there has to be someone to challenge his thinking sometimes and help him come up with better ideas.

If one person, just goes ''We do this... because I feel like it today'' **** will start to hit the fan. If it goes like ''We do this because.. I feel like it'' ''Are you sure? Have you thought, what could result from such action?'' ''... True, we probably should do it like this instead''.

I do agree. I have nothing against anyone voicing an opinion that doesnt match Shepard's on the ship. But that opinion, too, should be carried by valid reasoning instead of sentimentality, especially in the case of Miranda, who isn't big on sentimentality.

Just my... few puny cents, that weren't already donated to Greece.

I see we're in the same boat :/

Yeah, well I don't really mind the zipper. As long as there's options... Wouldn't like to have it glued.

About sentimentality, well it's been talked to death over the years. We've never agreed on that subject, so no point in going over that again.


Yeah.. ''Only'' 200 euros from my pocket, this time around to people who don't even seem to want it. What would T.I.M do?

And no, I am not a Greek. I am Finnish.

[alperez]

Ieldra2 wrote...


But again, her leaving Cerberus at that point is NOT canon. I don't know why everyone takes it as a given that she does. She only does when you take her with you, and.....is there nobody else but me here who regularly keeps the base? Like, btw, 37% of all players do? People seem to have such a desperate need to see her part ways with Cerberus, I can't understand it. Cerberus is not the enemy, damn it, at least not as of ME2. The Reapers are. People seem to forget that. Cerberus may be ugly enough, but it's nothing, NOTHING against the Reapers. That's why we work with them.

Part of the reason is for as many people who supported Cerberus there are lots of us who didn't, so for us it is preferable that she follows through. Yes its not canon but it was written for a reason, whether it gets carried into me3 or not we just don't know.

As for Cerberus being the enemy well they may very well be, it certainly looks that way with what we know (although context and story aren't known yet) just because they weren't in me2 means nothing considering how they were written in me1.

Whatever our own preferences at the minute it looks like cerberus are being set up to be a large enemy for us to face and what the reasons are or why we're just not clear on. Even if they're not as big a threat as the Reapers they're an obstacle for whatever reasoning Bioware will come up with and if it goes as it looks like it might it just gives some of us Miranda fans that dislike Cerberus a big reason why we hope she isn't working with them.

Personally i think they have the situation railroaded in a certain way and for a certain type of ending to be acheived certain things have to fall into place. One of these is the re-demonising of Cerberus and setting them up as the bad guys in me3 because of this certain choices we make and certain actions we've taken ensure a different outcome. This is why the collectore base replys by the squad or Miranda's resignation were there to show us a way to ensure a particular outcome, But thats just my opinion and i've be way wrong before.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
People seem to have such a desperate need to see her part ways with Cerberus, I can't understand it. Cerberus is not the enemy, damn it, at least not as of ME2. The Reapers are. People seem to forget that. Cerberus may be ugly enough, but it's nothing, NOTHING against the Reapers. That's why we work with them.

I myself would have no problems working with Cerberus in ME3 but I hold Miranda to an higher standard. And since there's no option to keep the Base but not give it to anyone or other way for Miranda to resign, Base goes BOOM.

You're making the same mistake: sentimentality clouds judgment. You want Miranda to resign so desperately that you're risking losing valuable information that might cost you the war. You wouldn't do that without the metaknowledge that you'll win in any case. I'd love to see her resign, but other considerations are more important. If that makes things harder for Miranda in ME2, then so be it. I'll live with the consequences. I'll only rail at the writers for their Paragon favoritism.  

I dread to think about what will happen after the war is over and there's countless pieces of Reaper tec for everyone to grab and study.
Give them six months and the Salarians will have Indocrination guns.

There will be countless pieces of the stuff to study in any case. And IMO it must be understood, if only to prevent a repeat. But that's another debate.

@alperez:
I was specifically talking about "as of ME2". We all know the direction things are going in ME3. But at the end of ME2, you do not know that. Or would you have guessed that Cerberus will work with the Reapers? I could imagine them doing a lot of really ugly stuff, but working with the Reapers, that was a surprise.

But well, enough of that. I can only hope that Bioware will give equal weight and benefit to both decision paths, and not make Miranda too one-sided. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 juin 2011 - 11:00 .

[Vertigo_1]

Melrache wrote...

And no, I am not a Greek. I am Finnish.

Oh this is about that whole Greece in financial trouble thing 

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Would everyone PLEASE stop making it sound like Destroying the Base and Miri resigning are a bad thing.

I LOVE Destroying that damn Base too Hell. And I LOVE it when Miri tells T.I.M. off and quits.<3<3<3<3^_^

I don't want to change the way I play.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 juin 2011 - 10:57 .

[Raizo]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

WOOT:

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/83660842033356800
"Wow, 65 pages of love for Miranda! She'll be in #ME3 of course, but we'll keep scale of all roles a suprise."

Casey seems surprised. Why should all the Miranda love surprise him.

[Melra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Would everyone PLEASE stop making it sound like Destroying the Base and Miri resigning are a bad thing.

I LOVE Destroying that damn Base too Hell. And I LOVE it when Miri tells T.I.M. off and quits.<3<3<3<3^_^

I don't want to change the way I play.

Then don't change it. Not everyone does play that way, doesn't make their experience any less important, as long as they aren'¨t asking for changes, that affect both groups of people.

[lazuli]

I'm going to drop in and show my support for Miranda. I love her voice, her personality, and (perhaps most of all) her build. No, not her body, although she is beautiful. It's the Warp + Overload + awesome passive + Slam (for Warp bombs) that does it for me.

[alperez]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Would everyone PLEASE stop making it sound like Destroying the Base and Miri resigning are a bad thing.

I LOVE Destroying that damn Base too Hell. And I LOVE it when Miri tells T.I.M. off and quits.<3<3<3<3^_^

I don't want to change the way I play.

Don't worry about it, i do the very same thing as do a lot of others, there is just some people who play different and have different opinions, which is why we love Mass Effect in the first place.

There is no right or wrong choice or way to play there is only your version, no one else's counts.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Melrache wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Would everyone PLEASE stop making it sound like Destroying the Base and Miri resigning are a bad thing.

I LOVE Destroying that damn Base too Hell. And I LOVE it when Miri tells T.I.M. off and quits.<3<3<3<3^_^

I don't want to change the way I play.

Then don't change it. Not everyone does play that way, doesn't make their experience any less important, as long as they aren'¨t asking for changes, that affect both groups of people.

Phew.... ok:happy:

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

alperez wrote...


Don't worry about it, i do the very same thing as do a lot of others, there is just some people who play different and have different opinions, which is why we love Mass Effect in the first place.

There is no right or wrong choice or way to play there is only your version, no one else's counts.

Even if you have casualties. Because a part of me wants to make the SM feel more real. But I'm afraid that I may have SERIOUSLY UNFORTUNATE events that may happen. Like a bad ending, or I die....or what if Miri dies because of this.