82210 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

I believe no one has made a shot of this scene yet:



Edit:
Oops...I got the top-of-the-page slot for this pic. Nice.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2011 - 07:37 .

[pancholonita]

Because it likes to see miranda with the armor?

[Ieldra]

Sh*t....I need to replay several hours of my "Miranda will hold the line alone" game since the Reaper IFF installation will only happen after you've done a recruitment or N7 mission if any are left. And apart from Zaeed, whose recruitment would put a second team member into the hold-the-line group even with maxed out deaths, I have only a loyalty mission and Arrival left.

So going back five loyalty missions, Reaper IFF and Arrival. And a few N7 missions. Drat.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2011 - 09:43 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Yes, that's exactly what I meant: it would be justification enough for Liara being on the team, and it would a plausible development, but it would make Liara's becoming the SB pointless. That's not good storytelling.

It would be utterly pointless. So, my guess would be that Liara will maintain her intelligence-gathering abilities throughout most of the game, but maybe they are transferred to the Normandy fairly early on. Something like: Cerberus is assaulting the SB's ship, so you go get her and she controls the SB's resources remotely from then on. The SB already operates off of a mobile base, after all.

Somebody needs to be the quest-giver/exposition dumper in the game, and Liara/SB seems ideal for that. Basically, instead of Cerberus feeding you information, with a briefing from TIM for important missions, in ME3 it could be the SB who fills that function. Alliance military will be decimated, so I don't see Hackett or Anderson being able to fill that role, as in ME1.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I believe no one has made a shot of this scene yet:

*snip*
Oops...I got the top-of-the-page slot for this pic. Nice.

Sweet image. What scene is that from?

Modifié par flemm, 07 octobre 2011 - 11:24 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
Sweet image. What scene is that from?

Reaper IFF, when they talk about Legion and wrap up the last Husks.

About Liara, yeah, that would mean she gets to be the most plot-critical NPC *and* a permanent slot on the team. I can see the rants about Liara being pushed into our faces reaching a new height. And I would join.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yeah, I'm awfully cynical about the willingness of Bioware to keep their characters, well, in-character from one game to the other. I suppose they'll find some justification for Liara's absence from her base, but apart from something that makes her useless as the SB I can't imagine what that could be, and then why did they make her that in the first place?

Reapers attack and destroy the vessel? They reason that the SB might be able to speed along any unified resistance attempts to their invasion by elminating certain aspects of beauracracy?

That's about all I can figure for it anyway; I think it's inferred that the Reapers had an extensive intelligence network in place through the galaxy at about the time of the Collectors, I would think that the Reapers would try to identify the Shadow Broker and more importantly pinpoint it's exact position so that they could remove the entity as soon as expedient. With the Shadow Broker's death (which I should imagine they could find out quickly enough; even if not the exact why of it) they may decide that it is expedient to bump it up on the priority list.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
About Liara, yeah, that would mean she gets to be the most plot-critical NPC *and* a permanent slot on the team. I can see the rants about Liara being pushed into our faces reaching a new height. And I would join.

Maybe so. It is what it is. I'm fairly indifferent to the concept tbh. It's a big role, but not necessarily one I would relish Miranda having, for example (other than the squad member part, obviously).

Ieldra2 wrote...
Reaper IFF, when they talk about Legion and wrap up the last Husks.

Cool, thanks.

Modifié par flemm, 07 octobre 2011 - 11:38 .

[jtav]

Well, some characters are going to be more important than others, and the character who's immortal and a LI to both genders is a good candidate.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
About Liara, yeah, that would mean she gets to be the most plot-critical NPC *and* a permanent slot on the team. I can see the rants about Liara being pushed into our faces reaching a new height. And I would join.

Maybe so. It is what it is. I'm fairly indifferent to the concept tbh. It's a big role, but not necessarily one I would relish Miranda having, for example (other than the squad member part, obviously).

Before LotSB, I had hoped Miranda would be our primary intelligence-gatherer in ME3 if alive. In that sense, as good as LotSB was and as much as I appreciate Liara as a character, it was a big disappointment.

As a quest-giver, well, they need someone fairly neutral, which is where Liara fits. Miranda wouldn't be good for that role.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:16 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Before LotSB, I had hoped Miranda would be our primary intelligence-gatherer in ME3 if alive. In that sense, as good as LotSB was and as much as I appreciate Liara as a character, it was a big disappointment.

As a quest-giver, well, they need someone fairly neutral, which is where Liara fits. Miranda wouldn't good for that role.

Hmm, ok, I can see why you were interested in that. But a lot the material would be mission briefings and debriefings, that sort of thing. Some of it could be awesome, of course, but a lot of it would be mostly expository. Somebody's got to do it, and it needs to be a stable presence in all games. Huge headache otherwise, I imagine.

I would anticipate some system where other characters participate in the debriefings, or in certain ones at least. But picture a situation where Shepard leaves a ravaged earth and goes to recruit allies throughout the galaxy. He needs a source of intel. That's where the SB comes in, I expect, and why Liara was set up in that role.

Modifié par flemm, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:20 .

[jtav]

Don't remember where, but I recall reading EDI gave you the initial info on races. And the "if alive" is why Miranda can't be primary Ms. Exposition. For a best-case scenario, I think we have to look to ME2 Tali as a model. She's important for her subplot and she must be on the team for No One Left Behind, but she isn't essential.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
For a best-case scenario, I think we have to look to ME2 Tali as a model. She's important for her subplot and she must be on the team for No One Left Behind, but she isn't essential.

Something like that is what I would anticipate. Which is fine. Basically: recruitable to the squad, with plot importance in a specific area. At around that level of involvement, quality becomes more important than quantity imo.

jtav wrote...

Don't remember where, but I recall reading EDI gave you the initial info on races

She gives you a lot of info in ME2 as well. So I expect she would do a lot of the little stuff again. But you still need a major source of intel and (probably) somebody for more important mission briefings. With the SB being, essentially, the galaxy's best intel source, I have a hard time imagining the SB not being used for this purpose. I dunno. Just seems likely.

Modifié par flemm, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:38 .

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...
For a best-case scenario, I think we have to look to ME2 Tali as a model. She's important for her subplot and she must be on the team for No One Left Behind, but she isn't essential.

Something like that is what I would anticipate. Which is fine. Basically: recruitable to the squad, with plot importance in a specific area. At around that level of involvement, quality becomes more important than quantity imo.

That's a desirable and plausible scenario, yes. Let's hope we get it. And you're right, a lot of exposition doesn't necessarily add anything to a character's appeal - see Tali in ME1.

As for what I hoped for for Miranda before LotSB, that wasn't just a wish, it was also plausible back then, because Miranda was the only character with access to a big information network, and there was speculation that she would break away from Cerberus with like-minded people to form her own faction. At that time, nobody would've believed Liara would be suited to the SB role. I still think her transformation was too drastic to be believable, even though I like ME2 Liara a lot better.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Xilizhra]

Possibly Liara's mission will be about putting together the network after the Reapers destroy it? And then it becomes a new source of missions?

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 At that time, nobody would've believed Liara would be suited to the SB role.

Well, it's a plot-driven change. Any character could have been re-purposed that way, but Liara made the most sense for meta-game/meta-story reasons.  *shrug*

I'm more interested in seeing Miranda in action, tbh. I do like the concept of her becoming the head of a covert organisation, but as a culmination of her involvement in the story.

Modifié par flemm, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:47 .

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
 At that time, nobody would've believed Liara would be suited to the SB role.

Well, it's a plot-driven change. Any character could have been re-purposed that way, but Liara made the most sense for meta-game/meta-story reasons.  *shrug*

And she does plausibly fit the role. To me, anyway.

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
And she does plausibly fit the role. To me, anyway.

Cool. For me personally, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. She fits it ok, but essentially it's a revenge plot + the final temptation of having access to all that info/power. And the whole thing is really implausible. So almost any character could fit that type of scenario, if provided with a motivation for revenge in the first place.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Miri rules over ALL in video games:wub:!

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:54 .

[Xilizhra]

flemm wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
And she does plausibly fit the role. To me, anyway.

Cool. For me personally, I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. She fits it ok, but essentially it's a revenge plot + the final temptation of having access to all that info/power. And the whole thing is really implausible. So almost any character could fit that type of scenario, if provided with a motivation for revenge in the first place.

Maybe. To me, the only implausible thing is Cerberus just happening to find that lead, and I think it only did because they needed some way of emailing the mission to you, though Liara could have just done it herself... oh well.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...
I'm more interested in seeing Miranda in action, tbh. I do like the concept of her becoming the head of a covert organisation, but as a culmination of her involvement in the story.

Of course. Miranda *restricted to* sitting back somewhere and giving us info would be boring. But one doesn't prevent the other, as Liara's example shows. Having said that, as things stand it makes more sense for her to become head of a covert organization in the last part of the game, or even in the epilogue.

BTW, don't listen to Xilizhra too much. As far as she's concerned, all species should remodel their societies along asari lines and all Shepards should canoncically succumb to Liara's charms.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 octobre 2011 - 01:00 .

[Xilizhra]

BTW, don't listen to Xilizhra. As far as she's concerned, all species should remodel their societies along asari lines and all Shepards should canoncically succumb to Liara's charms.

What? I'm not even certain if all of my own Shepards will canonically succumb to Liara's charms. I'm considering doing another one depending on who's open for romance come ME3; my first hopes are for Samara and Kelly, but I'm open to other possibilities.

[Ieldra]

But I'm correct about the other part, right?

[flemm]

Xilizhra wrote...
oh well.

Indeed

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

But I'm correct about the other part, right?

There might need to be some readjustment for general species temperament, but I do like the idea overall.

[Athayniel]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sh*t....I need to replay several hours of my "Miranda will hold the line alone" game since the Reaper IFF installation will only happen after you've done a recruitment or N7 mission if any are left. And apart from Zaeed, whose recruitment would put a second team member into the hold-the-line group even with maxed out deaths, I have only a loyalty mission and Arrival left.

So going back five loyalty missions, Reaper IFF and Arrival. And a few N7 missions. Drat.

You can do Zaeed's LM and kill him during the course of it.

*edit* Ahh wait, according to the wiki you can only leave him to die during his LM if it's done after the Suicide Mission. Which is kind of odd when you think about it. Why would I need his loyalty *after* the SM?

Modifié par Athayniel, 07 octobre 2011 - 01:43 .