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[MisterJB]

alperez wrote...
Jack has every right to hate Cerberus,

Hating the entire Organization just because of what one cell did even after it's proven that its leader did not approve of that particular cell's methods?
First time I played, I honestly expected Jack to calm down quite a bit after her LM.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

MisterJB wrote...

alperez wrote...
Jack has every right to hate Cerberus,

Hating the entire Organization just because of what one cell did even after it's proven that its leader did not approve of that particular cell's methods?
First time I played, I honestly expected Jack to calm down quite a bit after her LM.

But she didn't, which pisses me off every time.

[Ieldra]

Miranda gets away without emotional scars in my playthroughs: the crew, Miranda and Jacob always survive. They're the only ones though, everyone else is fair game.

[jtav]

Akuze, Kahoku, Chasca, Overlord. I can't blame Jack for still hating Cerberus. Teltin seems pretty representative.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Miranda gets away without emotional scars in my playthroughs: the crew, Miranda and Jacob always survive. They're the only ones though, everyone else is fair game.

Should I keep Jacob alive. Would something bad happen to Miri if he's not there?

[alperez]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I wouldn't mind that at all. If the endgame decision in ME2 was more to show your Shepard's attitude to things than one with epic consequences I could live with that very well. Would I not fear getting shafted for taking a "canonically wrong" decision in ME3, I'd never have made such a hubbub about this.

I just wonder how big a difference it'll really make in the end, canon wise i don't know if it'll really be that big a difference.

I can't see them going the route of gave Cerberus the base therefore Cerberus are that much harder to beat or have better tech than if you didn't, they'd have to create different animations for the cerberus troops you face which is a lot of work.

I think it'll be more something that comes up at your trial, evidence against you if you gave it or not if you didn't and we'll all face the consequences of Cerberus with tech either way. Or perhaps just simply conversational diifferences.

[Melra]

How should we know?

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Miranda gets away without emotional scars in my playthroughs: the crew, Miranda and Jacob always survive. They're the only ones though, everyone else is fair game.

But giving her those scars is so much fun! And fanfic fodder.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Miranda gets away without emotional scars in my playthroughs: the crew, Miranda and Jacob always survive. They're the only ones though, everyone else is fair game.

But giving her those scars is so much fun! And fanfic fodder.

I see the reason for your group title. I can see the dramatic potential, but I always have a hard time doing bad things to my favorite characters when I write. It needs to be done occasionally, but it is hard. To hear you saying it's fun is....weird.

Besides, in my headcanon Miranda and Jacob may be a little more distant than in yours.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 12:15 .

[Repearized Miranda]

alperez wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...

[

Well, if your renegade bar isn't full, if you don't do her LM, or if you don't upgrade accordingly. Then again, it could have alot to do with her attitude. She hates Cerberus and automically hates Miranda (She was quite indifferent with Jacob)

Jacob's a guy who's unsure of himself (paaphased) while "Miranda's a Cerberus ****" which she (Jack) "knew before she (Miranda) opened her mouth!" Note her constant referral to Miri as "the cheerleader". This whole "I hate Miri/Shepard" because of Cerberus (Ashley/Kaidan/The Council/Jack, etc) - not saying it's without good reason; however, one person (Miranda) does not an organization make. Notice how nobody insults Jacob! If they should spout off at anyone, it's TIM, but apparently - ONLY Miri and Shepard have the fortitude to do it!

Miranda is more in a position of authority than Jacob though and seems much more in tune with Cerberus wheras Jacob questions them from the get go, plus apart from Shepard no one gets the chance to say anything to TIM.

Jack has every right to hate Cerberus, Miranda is the closest representation of Cerberus and then we have Biowares unyeilding adherence to potential LI one not liking potential LI two (see Ash/liara in me1).

Jack has the BEST reason to hate Cerberus; however, why should she hate Shepard for it? (Purgatory encounter) That's like saying: "I'm gonna hit your spouse because I don't like his friend. IOW, why would you hit anybody BUT the friend if that's who you're pissed at? This is the mindset of the major characters you encounter. I hate Cerberus; therefore, I hate you! Your issues are with THEM - not Shep! And while Miri is the closest thing to Cerberus, she is not going to tattletale to TIM if/when somebody insults her or the organization. I realize the other characters don't know about TIM, but once they do (assuming they survive ME2), they owe Shepard AND Miranda big time! As I said, Shepard never trusted Cerberus since the beginning; however, it was incredibly difficult to ****** Miri off. (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Melrache wrote...

How should we know?

Well he was part of Cerberus too. What if Miri were to need his help. But if he's not there, what if She perishes?

[Melra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Miranda gets away without emotional scars in my playthroughs: the crew, Miranda and Jacob always survive. They're the only ones though, everyone else is fair game.

But giving her those scars is so much fun! And fanfic fodder.

I see the reason for your group title. I can see the dramatic potential, but I always have a hard time doing bad things to my favorite characters when I write. It needs to be done occasionally, but it is hard. To hear you saying it's fun is....weird.

Besides, in my headcanon Miranda and Jacob may be a little more distant than in yours.

Mhm.. Same it does sound weird for me as well, but I've never been able to do anything, that is unpleasant, in a game. I play them to enjoy, not to suffer through. :innocent:

I just hope Miranda has big enough role for me to be able to enjoy it.

[MisterJB]

Repearized Miranda wrote...
 (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

Are you kidding?
"Not even remotely."
I shivered.

[Ieldra]

Repearized Miranda wrote...
however, it was incredibly difficult to ****** Miri off. (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

No? The chilling response sent shudders down my spine. It's the cold kind of anger with her. 

Edit:
I see we're on the same page, MisterJB

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 12:19 .

[alperez]

Well since none of us have ever faced what Jack faced thinking she might calm down doesn't make much sense imo, not to mention she's not exactly the calmest character in the first place.

As for hating cerberus and the entire operation despite it being just one cell did whether TIM agreed or disagreed with it again think who your talking about.

Cerberus does nothing to show Jack that she might be wrong about them, yes you can say it was a rogue cell or that the higher ups didn't approve but would you just accept that in the same situation ?

Miranda trys to say that Jacks wrong and tries to reason with her but at this point Jack isn't that reasonable and i doubt any of us would be any different. So you blame this organisation for everything thats happened to you, your then confronted by someone who works in a position of authority in that organisation and you should just accept their word and the tiniest bit of evidence and forget everything you've believed up to that point?

An emotionally scarred person wouldn't accept a rational version that contradicts what they believe to be the truth, not at that point anyway.

As for the ****y comments Jack makes about Miranda well she does kinda represent everything that Jack herself might be inadequate or disdainful about, physically i mean.

[jtav]

It depends on the scar. Making her live with a disastrous choice is easy, especially since she often comes out better. Physical ailments are cathartic because she becomes my stand-in. But I cannot make her depressed or self-loathing. That makes me miserable.

[Repearized Miranda]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...
however, it was incredibly difficult to ****** Miri off. (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

No? Speak to her afterward. The chilling response sent shudders down my spine. It's the cold kind of anger with her. 

Edit:
I see we're on the same page, MisterJB

I did and yeah, it was cold, but I have played the game multiple times (as I'm sure you have to). I'm more pissed off with the "Maybe another time" blow off and that's if I just want to ask her "how'd you get your hair like that"? I know why she says that (as other characters "blow you off," too. Ex: Garrus with his "calibrations!")

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's hard not to like her (the player) even when she's mad at you (Shep)

[alperez]

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Jack has the BEST reason to hate Cerberus; however, why should she hate Shepard for it? (Purgatory encounter) That's like saying: "I'm gonna hit your spouse because I don't like his friend. IOW, why would you hit anybody BUT the friend if that's who you're pissed at? This is the mindset of the major characters you encounter. I hate Cerberus; therefore, I hate you! Your issues are with THEM - not Shep! And while Miri is the closest thing to Cerberus, she is not going to tattletale to TIM if/when somebody insults her or the organization. I realize the other characters don't know about TIM, but once they do (assuming they survive ME2), they owe Shepard AND Miranda big time! As I said, Shepard never trusted Cerberus since the beginning; however, it was incredibly difficult to ****** Miri off. (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

Someone working with/for Cerberus to someone who has a genuine reason to hate Cerberus would be the embodiment of Cerberus so initially they would take all the flak for the feelings that a person might have. Plus Jack is emotionally unstable at the beginning of the me2 which again would only add to whatever reaction she might have.

The analogy you could use is (at the risk of going political) someone who lost a family member to terrorist and then meeting someone who works with/for what might be a terrorist organisation. I'm irish we have a history of this and trust me rational treatment based on merits go completely out of the equation when that situation occurs.

[MisterJB]

jtav wrote...
Kahoku

Kahoku poked his nose where it didn't belong. Any organization would have done the same.
 

Chasca,

I admit that I don't remember exactly what it says on the terminal but I seriously doubt Cerberus purposely turned an entire colony into Husks and then just left them around for people to find along with evidence linking it to them.
Makes no sense.

[Vertigo_1]

jtav wrote...

Akuze, Kahoku, Chasca, Overlord. I can't blame Jack for still hating Cerberus. Teltin seems pretty representative.

And if she ever finds out about her file in LotSB...

[alperez]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...



Well he was part of Cerberus too. What if Miri were to need his help. But if he's not there, what if She perishes?

Again your overanalysing and letting fear cloud your judgement, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering.

Think the bridge will be there and the bridge will be there.

Simply don't worry about what if a leads to b because it might lead to c instead.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Besides, in my headcanon Miranda and Jacob may be a little more distant than in yours.

I think that's true. In my head, they still have feelings for each other abd reconciliation is possible if the underlying issues are addressed.

Modifié par jtav, 23 juin 2011 - 12:31 .

[Vertigo_1]

MisterJB wrote...

Chasca,

I admit that I don't remember exactly what it says on the terminal but I seriously doubt Cerberus purposely turned an entire colony into Husks and then just left them around for people to find along with evidence linking it to them.
Makes no sense.

According to the wiki:

"While on Feros you found the personal log of an ExoGeni employee. The doctor's notes seem to express some concern about samples they provided to a group he referred to only as Cerberus."

At the end of the mission there is a terminal:

"Accessing it will reveal that the entire pioneer team is dead, and whatever 'samples' were provided to Cerberus (possibly referring to the Dragon's Teeth scattered around) effectively murdered dozens of people. Acquiring this information ends the assignment."

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 23 juin 2011 - 12:32 .

[alperez]

MisterJB wrote...

jtav wrote...
Kahoku

Kahoku poked his nose where it didn't belong. Any organization would have done the same.
 

Chasca,

I admit that I don't remember exactly what it says on the terminal but I seriously doubt Cerberus purposely turned an entire colony into Husks and then just left them around for people to find along with evidence linking it to them.
Makes no sense.

On Kahoku well not any organisation (except for apple their evil, evil i tell you) would do the same really which is kinda the point about Cerberus.

On chasca whether it was on purpose or not again it kinda proves the point, events have consequences which should be weighed up before you undertake those events, cerberus may have done it on purpose or just ignored the potential risks either way it turned out badly which it wouldn't have if they didn't try it in the first place.

[Repearized Miranda]

alperez wrote...

Well since none of us have ever faced what Jack faced thinking she might calm down doesn't make much sense imo, not to mention she's not exactly the calmest character in the first place.

As for hating cerberus and the entire operation despite it being just one cell did whether TIM agreed or disagreed with it again think who your talking about.

Cerberus does nothing to show Jack that she might be wrong about them, yes you can say it was a rogue cell or that the higher ups didn't approve but would you just accept that in the same situation ?

Miranda trys to say that Jacks wrong and tries to reason with her but at this point Jack isn't that reasonable and i doubt any of us would be any different. So you blame this organisation for everything thats happened to you, your then confronted by someone who works in a position of authority in that organisation and you should just accept their word and the tiniest bit of evidence and forget everything you've believed up to that point?

An emotionally scarred person wouldn't accept a rational version that contradicts what they believe to be the truth, not at that point anyway.

As for the ****y comments Jack makes about Miranda well she does kinda represent everything that Jack herself might be inadequate or disdainful about, physically i mean.

I understand Jack's pov and get why she doesn't trust Miri, but how often do these kinds of people end up saying "Damn! I should have!" Point being - Jack should have listened to Miri despite how angry she was! I never said Jack shouldn't be angry, but she is misdirecting it! Miranda didn't do this! Again, all the characters are pissed at her and Shep because if a damn logo ((internally) They'd hit the fan when it then becomes an external problem!