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[MisterJB]

alperez wrote...
On Kahoku well not any organisation (except for apple their evil, evil i tell you) would do the same really which is kinda the point about Cerberus.

Fine, any governmental organization then.

On chasca whether it was on purpose or not again it kinda proves the point, events have consequences which should be weighed up before you undertake those events, cerberus may have done it on purpose or just ignored the potential risks either way it turned out badly which it wouldn't have if they didn't try it in the first place.

Try what? Maybe I'm not reading this rigth but, as far I can tell, those colonists on Chasca unhearted some Dragon's Teeth, Cerberus learned about this and bought a few of them. It's hardly their fault if those guys ended up turning themselves into Husks.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 juin 2011 - 12:41 .

[alperez]

Repearized Miranda wrote...



I understand Jack's pov and get why she doesn't trust Miri, but how often do these kinds of people end up saying "Damn! I should have!" Point being - Jack should have listened to Miri despite how angry she was! I never said Jack shouldn't be angry, but she is misdirecting it! Miranda didn't do this! Again, all the characters are pissed at her and Shep because if a damn logo ((internally) They'd hit the fan when it then becomes an external problem!

Isn't that metagaming though? just because it often turns out that these people should do something because of later events doesn't mean their wrong at the time do whatever they do. Haven't you ever been completely certain in what you said or did at a certain time only to later reflect and go oops.

Yes it is just a logo and yes it is misdirected anger but if your angry and unstable emotionally its also something you might be very likely to do.

Again at the risk of getting political, someone hates Al qaeda may very well misdirect their anger towards any arab person they come into contact with, we already know this occurs. Now put that very same person in direct contact with someone who is working with Al qaeda for whatever reason that might be and wouldn't the feelings be even more intensified?

Shepard gets the chance to explain a little to Jack, also the chance to help her deal with things so her anger at Shepard fades away, Miranda doesn't and in fact tries to justify what Cerberus did and Jack doesn't take this well. Again put yourself in that position you have someone working with Cerberus reluctantly or for a reason who helps you get some closure to how you feel about them and someone who works willingly/believes in their ideals and tries to justify or explain that it wasn't us but a rogue cell, Would you just willingly accept this fact even if you had some evidence to back it up?

[jtav]

And to take the analogy further, Miranda *is* al-Qaeda (though IRA might fit better) and saying they do good work. I'd have ripped her head off.

[alperez]

MisterJB wrote...

Fine, any governmental organization then

Try what? Maybe I'm not reading this rigth but, as far I can tell, those colonists on Chasca unhearted some Dragon's Teeth, Cerberus learned about this and bought a few of them. It's hardly their fault if those guys ended up turning themselves into Husks.

Again not every government is the same (just saying, plus you forgot about Apple trust me their evilness knows no bounds). But even if every government worked the same, even if every agency would do the same thing it doesn't make it right. The fact is that a non govermental agency took out an Alliance admiral because he was looking into the events that happened to his squad which happened to have been caused by that very same agency.

Cerberus killed someone who found out something he shouldn't about how they operate, is this something that should be accepted or condoned or something that should cause you to question what kind of organisation Cerberus is?

My take on Chasca was that cerberus were directly involved through exogeni, that if they hadn't wanted the samples then the people on Chasca wouldn't have ended up how they did, i could be wrong though. But i always thought thats what was inferred by the fact that they ended up with the samples.

[Caihn]

Melrache wrote...
I always kill Jack, if not accidentally, then on purpose. She doesn't get along with my Shepard's XO and she doesn't get along with my Shepard, she gets to go. I even uploaded a video about it, when Miri fails with the barrier and Jack takes a little flight with the swarm. Mhm.. She's just a character, that usually raises strong feelings. She disgusts me personally.

I also killed her in all my playthroughs, except the "No One Left Behind" one.

I wish she could be an optional squadmate, so I don't have to kill her.

Jack : "I'm not going anywhere with you"
Shepard : "Fine, let's go"

Also, threatening Miranda to death was her last mistake.

[alperez]

jtav wrote...

And to take the analogy further, Miranda *is* al-Qaeda (though IRA might fit better) and saying they do good work. I'd have ripped her head off.

Exacty. Although i now imagine Miranda with an Irish accent lol.

[Repearized Miranda]

alperez wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...


Jack has the BEST reason to hate Cerberus; however, why should she hate Shepard for it? (Purgatory encounter) That's like saying: "I'm gonna hit your spouse because I don't like his friend. IOW, why would you hit anybody BUT the friend if that's who you're pissed at? This is the mindset of the major characters you encounter. I hate Cerberus; therefore, I hate you! Your issues are with THEM - not Shep! And while Miri is the closest thing to Cerberus, she is not going to tattletale to TIM if/when somebody insults her or the organization. I realize the other characters don't know about TIM, but once they do (assuming they survive ME2), they owe Shepard AND Miranda big time! As I said, Shepard never trusted Cerberus since the beginning; however, it was incredibly difficult to ****** Miri off. (ie: Angered when you sided with Jack, didn't seem like she was angry at all)

Someone working with/for Cerberus to someone who has a genuine reason to hate Cerberus would be the embodiment of Cerberus so initially they would take all the flak for the feelings that a person might have. Plus Jack is emotionally unstable at the beginning of the me2 which again would only add to whatever reaction she might have.

The analogy you could use is (at the risk of going political) someone who lost a family member to terrorist and then meeting someone who works with/for what might be a terrorist organisation. I'm irish we have a history of this and trust me rational treatment based on merits go completely out of the equation when that situation occurs.

Yeah, I get it, but isn't that what you would call generalization which obviously has a bad connotation. It also puts a likewise spin on the whole "take one for the team."

In the case of romance/marriage where infedelities happen, it is rash to think that ALL the people you encounter are like that. Again, I get Jack's pov and didn't say she has to like Miranda, but that's doesn't excuse her behavior; coincidentally, understand the "anti-Cerberus" campaign, but I don't take being rude to Shepard too kindly either. Regardless of your philosophy, (P/R), the "everything I did for you and this is the thanks I get" speaks volumes. I got Jack out of Cyro and blew up the base on Pragia; the least she can do is ease the hell up on Miri and me because I'm with her.

That said, I hope the writing is better in some areas in ME3

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Yannkee wrote...

I also killed her in all my playthroughs, except the "No One Left Behind" one.

I wish she could be an optional squadmate, so I don't have to kill her.

Jack : "I'm not going anywhere with you"
Shepard : "Fine, let's go"

Also, threatening Miranda to death was her last mistake.

This

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 23 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[alperez]

Repearized Miranda

Yes it is a generalisation but in some ways its also true to life, we generalise all the time so why shouldn't someone else do the same.

In terms of the getting Jack out of purgatory well at the point of the meeting you kinda haven't and even if you did Jack wouldn't/couldn't know this. You arrive, you face what you face and free Jack who then goes on her own killing everything in her path only to be confronted by you saying you rescued her.

If someone left a door open for you and you walked through that door, people tried to stop you from leaving and you then had to fight your way out only to be met by the person who left the door open saying i rescued you what would your initial response be?

I'm guessing something like, the hell you did i rescued myself only later might you question the facts of your rescue, you then add in the fact that the person claiming to be your rescuer is working for/with the very people you blame for most everything that's happened to you since you were a child.

You think she should be civil then?

Jack eases up considerably on Shepard because Shepard can explain somewhat why he is with Cerberus and helps Jack get some closure, but why should she eas up on Miranda?

To her Miranda really is a part of an organisation that she feels distinct and justified hatred for, Miranda does nothing in particuar to help Jack and then when Jack finds out certain facts about what happened to her, Miranda brushes this aside with a rogue cell and we're not responsible.

I'm sorry but if Jack acted any differently towards Miranda it'd be the most ridicolous thing ever, theres no justification for any attitude other than the one she takes, we might not like it but imo its completely fitting with both the narrative and with Jacks character.

Modifié par alperez, 23 juin 2011 - 01:19 .

[Repearized Miranda]

alperez wrote...

Repearized Miranda wrote...



I understand Jack's pov and get why she doesn't trust Miri, but how often do these kinds of people end up saying "Damn! I should have!" Point being - Jack should have listened to Miri despite how angry she was! I never said Jack shouldn't be angry, but she is misdirecting it! Miranda didn't do this! Again, all the characters are pissed at her and Shep because if a damn logo ((internally) They'd hit the fan when it then becomes an external problem!

Isn't that metagaming though? just because it often turns out that these people should do something because of later events doesn't mean their wrong at the time do whatever they do. Haven't you ever been completely certain in what you said or did at a certain time only to later reflect and go oops.

Yes it is just a logo and yes it is misdirected anger but if your angry and unstable emotionally its also something you might be very likely to do.

Again at the risk of getting political, someone hates Al qaeda may very well misdirect their anger towards any arab person they come into contact with, we already know this occurs. Now put that very same person in direct contact with someone who is working with Al qaeda for whatever reason that might be and wouldn't the feelings be even more intensified?

Shepard gets the chance to explain a little to Jack, also the chance to help her deal with things so her anger at Shepard fades away, Miranda doesn't and in fact tries to justify what Cerberus did and Jack doesn't take this well. Again put yourself in that position you have someone working with Cerberus reluctantly or for a reason who helps you get some closure to how you feel about them and someone who works willingly/believes in their ideals and tries to justify or explain that it wasn't us but a rogue cell, Would you just willingly accept this fact even if you had some evidence to back it up?

We've all done it, which begs the question of why Miranda changed her mind concerning the Collector Base, but because it was so sudden is the gripe there.

Maybe not initially, but I'd freakin' more angry if I turned out to be wrong moreso than them not being right. Hell, Miranda doesn't help because clearly, Jack doesn't want her to! Jack wants her dead even! All she sees is Cerberus. That's all she saw with Shepard until she opened up later. Now, if Jack had given Miranda a chance instead of being constantly rude ...

You said that Miranda's the closest thing to Ceberus. Well, Shepard (was/is) the closest thing to the Alliance and again, it's just a damn logo. It's doesn't mean the person wearing it is necessarily bad. That's fear and clouded judgment talking - even if one is completely stable!

[Repearized Miranda]

alperez wrote...

Repearized Miranda

Yes it is a generalisation but in some ways its also true to life, we generalise all the time so why shouldn't someone else do the same.

In terms of the getting Jack out of purgatory well at the point of the meeting you kinda haven't and even if you did Jack wouldn't/couldn't know this. You arrive, you face what you face and free Jack who then goes on her own killing everything in her path only to be confronted by you saying you rescued her.

If someone left a door open for you and you walked through that door, people tried to stop you from leaving and you then had to fight your way out only to be met by the person who left the door open saying i rescued you what would your initial response be?

I'm guessing something like, the hell you did i rescued myself only later might you question the facts of your rescue, you then add in the fact that the person claiming to be your rescuer is working for/with the very people you blame for most everything that's happened to you since you were a child.

You think she should be civil then?

Jack eases up considerably on Shepard because Shepard can explain somewhat why he is with Cerberus and helps Jack get some closure, but why should she eas up on Miranda?

To her Miranda really is a part of an organisation that she feels distinct and justified hatred for, Miranda does nothing in particuar to help Jack and then when Jack finds out certain facts about what happened to her, Miranda brushes this aside with a rogue cell and we're not responsible.

I'm sorry but if Jack acted any differently towards Miranda it'd be the most ridicolous thing ever, theres no justification for any attitude other than the one she takes, we might not like it but imo its completely fitting with both the narrative and with Jacks character.

She has the most reason to hate Miranda; that's not my issue. It's the displaced anger I have a problem with and clearly it's not exclusive to squadmates. The issue of mistrust is huge in a game like this - which makes for a great game if it really riles up the player

[Td1984]

AresXX7 wrote...
As for the xmen Rogue one, I would say the movie version would be a better look.



And here's a more full body shot.


If you notice, it has some extra padding, for protection, yet still falls in line with what we've seen her wear so far. 
(w/o the Cerberus logo(s))
Just needs something to accenuate it, like the belt in Ieldra's pic.

I admit that would look good on Miri [and to think this came about after a comment I made (half-jokingly) about MEFFL101's idea earlier ].

As for the CB decision, I admit that once ME3 comes out, I'll redo my ME2 playthrough (though probably not my ME1 one) if necessary, just to get the best ending possible. Though knowing that Cerberus will be indoctinated in ME3 makes me very reluctant to keep the CB intact, even if that's what Miranda would actually want.

[MisterJB]

What Miranda would actually want is what she actually said in the game.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 juin 2011 - 02:01 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

MisterJB wrote...

What Miranda would actually want is what was actually said in the game.

What was said?

[Bottomroach]

Melrache wrote...
I always kill Jack, if not accidentally, then on purpose. She doesn't get along with my Shepard's XO and she doesn't get along with my Shepard, she gets to go. I even uploaded a video about it, when Miri fails with the barrier and Jack takes a little flight with the swarm. Mhm.. She's just a character, that usually raises strong feelings. She disgusts me personally.

Only reason she's stil alive in both my playtroughs is because I'm a completionist. I liked Miranda's story arc much more because it showed character developement and growth, but Jack keeps pulling the same crap even after she finds out the truth about Pragia - both times she's argued with Miranda (the confrontation in MIri's office and while planning the suicide mission), especially the latter, she was f***ing with my chain of command just to be spiteful. Too bad there wasn't an option to tell her to keep her mouth shut during a briefing. At least MIranda can stay focused on the task at hand when the chips are down, as she said herself "This isn't a popularity contest, lives are at stake"

[Bottomroach]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What Miranda would actually want is what was actually said in the game.

What was said?

If you destroy the CB and talk to her afterwards, Miri says that destroying it was the right decision. Also, while TIM is convicing you to keep it in one of the conversation options, she says something along the lines of  "Seeing what happened in here, it would seem like a betrayal to use it"

[SlottsMachine]

I thought I'd give the Miranda romance a whirl, but she keeps stonewalling me with her "I'm busy" dialogue. So my first question would be, are there any dialogue choices that kill off any chance at romance? And my second question, does Oriana have any effect on whether or not Miranda can be romanced?

[Edit]

I noticed that dialogue tree link in the OP, that thing is neat. I know how I screwed up now, damn neutral option.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 23 juin 2011 - 03:15 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Bottomroach wrote...

If you destroy the CB and talk to her afterwards, Miri says that destroying it was the right decision. Also, while TIM is convicing you to keep it in one of the conversation options, she says something along the lines of  "Seeing what happened in here, it would seem like a betrayal to use it"

Oh...well then I already know that lol.

[ParadoxAu]

Yannkee wrote...

Melrache wrote...
I always kill Jack, if not accidentally, then on purpose. She doesn't get along with my Shepard's XO and she doesn't get along with my Shepard, she gets to go. I even uploaded a video about it, when Miri fails with the barrier and Jack takes a little flight with the swarm. Mhm.. She's just a character, that usually raises strong feelings. She disgusts me personally.

I also killed her in all my playthroughs, except the "No One Left Behind" one.

I wish she could be an optional squadmate, so I don't have to kill her.

Jack : "I'm not going anywhere with you"
Shepard : "Fine, let's go"

Also, threatening Miranda to death was her last mistake.

Me too. I'm just not a fan of the Character.

I'm currently replaying my 'No-One Gets Left Behind' Shepard with a different name... Then i'll likely play once more in order to dispose of Jack.

Modifié par ParadoxAu, 23 juin 2011 - 04:38 .

[Vertigo_1]

Eh I don't mind Jack so much; she speaks what's on her mind which can be funny (and true) at times. Only thing I don't: "F**k off" she says after exhausting her dialogue...I never really got to hear her reaction to the outcome of the SM (I think you have to romance her? or not romance Miranda? to hear that, not sure)

I'm keeping her alive to see what they do with her (redesign) and how she interacts w/ Miranda and Jacob if they have a chance to meet.

Hopefully they give her Insanity-friendly powers...

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 23 juin 2011 - 05:33 .

[hegth]

ParadoxAu wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Melrache wrote...
I always kill Jack, if not accidentally, then on purpose. She doesn't get along with my Shepard's XO and she doesn't get along with my Shepard, she gets to go. I even uploaded a video about it, when Miri fails with the barrier and Jack takes a little flight with the swarm. Mhm.. She's just a character, that usually raises strong feelings. She disgusts me personally.

I also killed her in all my playthroughs, except the "No One Left Behind" one.

I wish she could be an optional squadmate, so I don't have to kill her.

Jack : "I'm not going anywhere with you"
Shepard : "Fine, let's go"

Also, threatening Miranda to death was her last mistake.

Me too. I'm just not a fan of the Character.

I'm currently replaying my 'No-One Gets Left Behind' Shepard with a different name... Then i'll likely play once more in order to dispose of Jack.

yeah I  have to use my willpower for not killing her I don't hate her or anything is just that she ****** me off with that attitude, is the same thing with tali the GOD DAMN ATTITUDE in her loyalty mission I just wanted to shoot her.

[Ieldra]

MisterJB wrote...
What Miranda would actually want is what she actually said in the game.

I contest that. I dismiss everything the team members say after the SM about the CB, and the other thing Miranda never says in my games. Let's leave it at that.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juin 2011 - 06:00 .

[PMC65]

Bottomroach wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

What Miranda would actually want is what was actually said in the game.

What was said?

If you destroy the CB and talk to her afterwards, Miri says that destroying it was the right decision. Also, while TIM is convicing you to keep it in one of the conversation options, she says something along the lines of  "Seeing what happened in here, it would seem like a betrayal to use it"

That turnabout seemed odd to me ... But to be honest the whole keep or destroy the collector base was a head scratcher. Take for instance Grunt, he agrees with TIM on the CB but if you keep it he ****es back on the Normandy. What?

I think that Miranda should have voted to keep the base but not stopped Shepard if he/she decided to blow it to high heaven ... like Wrex voting to kill the rachni queen ... his line about bugs writing songs for shepard still cracks me up. That is where I think that ME2 fell short of the original. You were always given a pro & con from your teammates on decisions. The collector base decision just fell flat to me. When do 12 10 8 6 4 people agree on the same thing?

[snfonseka]

^ This.

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

I'm still dreaming about a cutscene where both Miri and Jack catch up to TIM and kill him Pulp Fiction style. Remember that scene where Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta emptied their pistols into the poor guy? Yeah, I'm dreaming of that and both women grinning at each other like maniacs before they high five after they've emptied their guns.