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[flemm]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

It was, got to play ME3 and ask Priestly some questions.

Nice! So... your impressions?

[Vertigo_1]

Well, game is better than ME2 from a gameplay and graphical point of view

I put my thoughts here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/7358840/301#8516533

As for what I asked and what he answered, I believe jtav already posted the "Dead squadmates (from both ME1 & 2) will be mentioned in ME3" already...anymore than that I don't know if I can put here, since folks might take what ever I put down as some kind of confirmation when it isn't just yet

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:51 .

[flemm]

Cool, thanks for the link!

[MsSihaKatieKrios]

I really wish there's a lecherous version of Cpt. Soap McTavish in ME3. I'd like to see how Miranda reacts to a guy like that hitting on every woman on the Normandy shamelessly and who sleeps with nearly every pretty woman he sees. Basically put, I'd love to see a Scottish manw**re and how Miranda reacts to him and shoots him down.

[naledgeborn]

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

I really wish there's a lecherous version of Cpt. Soap McTavish in ME3. I'd like to see how Miranda reacts to a guy like that hitting on every woman on the Normandy shamelessly and who sleeps with nearly every pretty woman he sees. Basically put, I'd love to see a Scottish manw**re and how Miranda reacts to him and shoots him down.

You just described my Shepard except that he's Canadian by default. And she's in the captains quarters with him.

[Vertigo_1]

Q&A with Mac Walters is now up:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/7358840/303#8518688
(because I know some people don't like Facebook)

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 15 octobre 2011 - 05:38 .

[Ieldra]

The Uncanny wrote...

GMagnum wrote...

o miranda.....y must u be fake......-sigh-

They're not fake! They're completely nat... oh wait. I see what you mean. *cough* Never mind. Carry on. 

:lol:

It's always nice to start the day with a good laugh. But really, to say for sure we'd need a *cough* closer inspection than the game lets us make.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Omega4RelayResident wrote...
She did say her looks were gentically engineered for perfection... no implants =/ natural. Not complaining. I am just picking it appart for the sake of being difficult.

Well, I'm not sure it was 100% intentional, but the clever part of Miranda's character is that the angst she experiences in game is basically an echo of how she was created outside of the game... Her "father" was in essence a bunch of male game developers, who created a vision of the the perfect physical specimen as they perceived it, with no doubt some help from Yvonne, who comes pretty close to embodying that already.

So that is an interesting parallel with Miranda's father in the game, who does the same basic thing. And her character arc is about escaping that angst, escaping her father and his vision of who she was supposed to be. Just a thought. Which I think touches on the whole natural vs. unnatural question.

You're making the weirdest connections....

As for "natural vs. unnatural", I've always been critical of the way people used "natural" - in the meaning of "untouched by intentional intervention" - as if that were some kind of virtue, even more so as it pertains to genetic engineering. Implants are like a deception, but in Miranda, who's genetically engineered, everything is "true", so to speak. I should also mention that "natural is best" is a romantic conceit, a legacy of 19th century classical romanticism, and as far as I know, didn't exist before as an element of cultural conditioning. 

In the end, whatever the reason, I think to value someone less because of how she came into being is akin to racism. Should genetic engineering on the scale done with Miranda ever become common, I can actually see this becoming a problem.

As for how things really are in biology, I can only repeat myself: biological organisms are far from well-designed, they're a mess, akin to the result of transforming a calculator program into an AI by applying a million patches. "Nature knows best" is a useful (loose) guideline as long as we have so little understanding of how genes create the organism, but once we've gotten over that hurdle, it becomes a meaningless prejudice.

Miranda's father has overcome that hurdle and created a greatly improved human genome. Whatever else he's done, he's done his part for the advancement of humanity, and that should be appreciated. Besides, we all like Miranda, right? And her genetic improvements are part of the package. 

Edit:
Note that I avoid saying he created Miranda. He certainly tried, but as soon as she ran away Miranda proved that he failed in that. Unless that was the plan all along - isn't that a scary thought?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 06:25 .

[Spanky Magoo]

The Uncanny wrote...

jtav wrote...

Anyway, I've updated the OP with instructions on how to replace Miranda's white outfit with the black from Freedom's Progress on.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person who likes the white catsuit. 

 you're not all alone but I feel we might be.

[UserForFun]

Miranda was pretty much an investment. Her father invested a great deal of money, with the expectations that his subject will eventually outweight the volume of resources initially implemented into this test-subject.

Miranda ran away at an early age, she might had been productive in a way, but it was a mere teenager. The project failed, as the test-subject ran away. All of the resources embedded within her had gone to waste in her father's eyes. Naturally, like any other Human, driven by greed, wants his investment back.

There is no logic in her father planning her escape unless Miranda's not the subject he wanted, either due to a biological flaw, or perhaps mere mentality. Either way, it seems highly unlikely, because Miranda would still have tremendous potential.

As for the topic of natural-vs-artificial. If an individual suffers from a defect, of any kind, or desires an improvement; Aesthetically for example, and has the means to correct it, why not..? Isn't that our main-goal in life, to improve anything we can? To improve our social-standing, our income, our residence etc.. Our own body should not be a priority?

[Ieldra]

UserForFun wrote...
There is no logic in her father planning her escape unless Miranda's not the subject he wanted, either due to a biological flaw, or perhaps mere mentality. Either way, it seems highly unlikely, because Miranda would still have tremendous potential.

I agree it's extremely unlikely, even less so if Miranda's father is as controlling as she say, but as a thought experiment it's far from illogical: Miranda needs experience in doing things on her own in order to continue the dynasty. That's not possible without her getting out, but Miranda's father doesn't want her completely out of his control. He has contacts with Cerberus, increases the pressure on Miranda into the unbearable and arranges for Miranda coming into contact with Cerberus. If not for Oriana, this would be a plausible scenario, given what Miranda has learned in her time with Cerberus: Technical competence, administration, leadership, social engineering and espionage. 

[UserForFun]

You've already stated, that it is an impossible scenario due to Oriana; What is Oriana..? It's his way to compensate for his initial failed investment, aka replace the original subject with another one, hoping this one will bring adequate results. The moment Oriana's existence enters the equation, it is a -definite- failure from his side.

[Ieldra]

The Uncanny wrote...

jtav wrote...
Anyway, I've updated the OP with instructions on how to replace Miranda's white outfit with the black from Freedom's Progress on.

Sometimes I think I'm the only person who likes the white catsuit. 

I like the black-and-white color scheme and the hexagon pattern. But I don't like the extreme close cut that accentuates her features in a cheap and not at all classy way. If there was a noticeable 3-D effect in the hexagon pattern, the chest area weren't modeled after a bra and the lower body part had a noticeable thickness and didn't follow the contours of the body in a way that you notice it really IS painted on, I'd be much more comfortable with it. 

[Ieldra]

UserForFun wrote...
You've already stated, that it is an impossible scenario due to Oriana; What is Oriana..? It's his way to compensate for his initial failed investment, aka replace the original subject with another one, hoping this one will bring adequate results. The moment Oriana's existence enters the equation, it is a -definite- failure from his side.

No, I did not say it was impossible. I said it was less plausible than the failure hypothesis.

The beauty of conspiracy theories such as this one is that they're never impossible. There is always an infinite number of scenarios that fits any given set of evidence. I could work Oriana into the equation quite well, especially since we do NOT know what Mr X's goals are. We only have Miranda's vague account of a dynasty, she even admits later that she doesn't know what he wanted. Perhaps he always knew where Oriana was and used her to tie Miranda to Cerberus more closely. Perhaps she wasn't meant as a replacement (for if she was, why the hell isn't she improved from the earlier model, genetically?).

So no, I don't think we'll see this scenario, but if the writers wanted to get really intricate and put Miranda through an existential hell in ME3, this would be the way to do it. No changed facts are necessary, just a re-interpretation.

[UserForFun]

Exactly. The writers within Mass Effect 2 were incompetent, and honestly, it will be very hard to redeem twemselves.

We know only Miranda's version, and her interpretation of her father's motives. We only speculate, and even induce things, -based- on hollow variables, ( Or scenario, as you addressed ) which could unravel an infinite number of reasons. We speculating is not an answer. Questions were raised from dialogue, and narrative and we'll get a blown-lip. No answers, no revelation, nothing. That's not how a character should be presented.

We know -nothing- of Miranda's father, we do not see his perspective, we do not even know the truth.

The whole Mass Effect 2 is a coalition of enormous gaps, filled with question marks and no answers, but we're discussing Miranda, so let's move towards the next point ( That I haven't seen within this topic raised ) and honestly, it bugged me.

We -know- that something happened between Jacob and Miranda. To what extend, again.. We're clueless. Jacob mentions it numerous times, due to him being a nice and open guy, but we never truly unravel what -happened-

Worse, after his '' loyalty '' mission, he drops another bomb '' She deserves a better man than I am '' -- Which leads me to following; The writers obviously implemented a conflict ( More-so, if Shepard's romancing Miranda ) yet, we do not have the option to confront any of the two. Depends on personality, but I, would atleast feel a bit jealous, and atleast attempt to find out what happened, and if there's still a connection.

It could had been a very interesting show-off, like Legion-Tali or Miranda-Jack... Or Shepard just shooting Jacob. ( Since most people dislike him so much, and I honestly can't see why. He's the most normal individual on the crew, plus he's a nice guy. )

But in the end, we get nothing but a blown-lip.

[Ieldra]

Nono, not incompetent. Deliberately vague. You need to leave some room for the players' imagination. Also if it were less vague, a lot more people would be put off. It's like in politics - the more specific you become over several issues, the smaller your group of followers becomes because people tend to think an evil avoided is better than a good not done and ignore everything they agree with to avoid the one thing they disagree with.

I'm fine with the vagueness, it gives us something to debate and triggers our imagination. I'll complain only when things become stupid (CB), don't fit with the rest of the world (re:infertility) or don't have an influence where they should.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 09:31 .

[Arijharn]

'Incompetent' that's pretty harsh imo. I'd have to agree with Ieldra (...) in that vagueness sort of makes it more enticing in the way of piquing your interest etc.

[Athayniel]

UserForFun wrote...

We -know- that something happened between Jacob and Miranda. To what extend, again.. We're clueless. Jacob mentions it numerous times, due to him being a nice and open guy, but we never truly unravel what -happened-

Worse, after his '' loyalty '' mission, he drops another bomb '' She deserves a better man than I am '' -- Which leads me to following; The writers obviously implemented a conflict ( More-so, if Shepard's romancing Miranda ) yet, we do not have the option to confront any of the two. Depends on personality, but I, would atleast feel a bit jealous, and atleast attempt to find out what happened, and if there's still a connection.

It could had been a very interesting show-off, like Legion-Tali or Miranda-Jack... Or Shepard just shooting Jacob. ( Since most people dislike him so much, and I honestly can't see why. He's the most normal individual on the crew, plus he's a nice guy. )

But in the end, we get nothing but a blown-lip.

Ieldra already commented to my satisfaction on the writing argument in your post, so I'll focus on this. What exact business is it of Shepard's what happened between acob and Miranda? Even if Shepard is romancing Miranda her exes are really none of Shepard's concern. If Jacob has given up any claim he may ever have had, which he clearly does, and Miranda shows no interest in him except as a colleague and friend, which is the case, Shepard has no right to stick their nose in. Any Shepard that did, should be unceremoniously dumped as the sort of lover a woman should avoid. That's not even adding the prospect of shooting Jacob into the equation. A Shepard like that is just a creeper.

Modifié par Athayniel, 15 octobre 2011 - 10:41 .

[UserForFun]

Actually, we do not know apart from Jacob still contemplates upon it, otherwise he won't mention it. As for Miranda, she's rather reclusive with anything personal, thus we do not know about her either.

You're telling me that if you have a boyfriend/girlfriend and he/she is still friend with an ex, works in his/her presence 24/7, you'll be enticed..? There's nothing creepy about inquiring, merely to settle your mind at ease, and be well acquainted with the facts.

Edit -- As for the shooting, it was a joke due to Jacob's general hate.

Modifié par UserForFun, 15 octobre 2011 - 11:13 .

[Athayniel]

Unless it is clearly causing problems between myself and my girlfriend then no, it wouldn't bother me. Her past relationships aren't really any of my business unless they create problems.

In Miranda and Jacob's case it evidently doesn't cause problems. They've been working together for a long time without any issues.

[UserForFun]

Actually, coincidental I'm doing my second playtrough; Rather bored lately, and now I've done the Jacob's recruitment mission. ( In this play trough I'm more orientated towards Renegade ) -- Either way, let Jacob to compel his father in suicide, and in the aftermath, due to this conversation, I paid more attention to the last scenes.

When Miranda mentions Jacob's past, and how she keeps her promises, she has a certain look upon her face. I honestly think that something is still lingering between the two. ( You should replay the scene, see for yourself ) 
As for...

- Edit, sorry. I have no idea how to use the forums, the quote is messed up.

[quote]Athayniel wrote...

Unless it is clearly causing problems between myself and my girlfriend then no, it wouldn't bother me. Her past relationships aren't really any of my business unless they create problems. /quote]

Isn't better to ensure that no problems/complications ensure in the first place..? 

Modifié par UserForFun, 15 octobre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Arijharn]

I think what's in the past is in the past too. Whether Jacob and Miranda has any issues they need to work out then I think it would be up to them to do it, unless it somehow interferes with the relationship that Miranda has with Shephard, I'd have to echo Atha's sentiment in saying it isn't any of Shep's business.

If you put your nose into this; then really all it shows is just how damn insecure Shephard really is.

[Ieldra]

UserForFun wrote...
When Miranda mentions Jacob's past, and how she keeps her promises, she has a certain look upon her face. I honestly think that something is still lingering between the two. ( You should replay the scene, see for yourself )

That's what I was about when I spoke of the vagueness. You can interpret the scene that way, but it's by no means clear. It might as well be a little nostalgia for easier times, or mean nothing more that she still counts Jacob as a friend. After all, if you've been together and part in peace, something can always remain even decades after you parted.

Also note that you can get this scene after having played through the complete romance. Lingering feelings that wait to be rekindled would make no sense in that case, so it's clearly not intended to unambiguously point in that direction.

Besides, they don't fit. Or can you imagine Miranda's reaction to "Sneaking into the XO's quarters....heavy risk, but the priize".

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 12:29 .

[Athayniel]

UserForFun wrote...
Isn't better to ensure that no problems/complications ensure in the first place..? 

I think having a bit of faith and trust in your SO is important, no?

[UserForFun]

Re; Ieldra, I would expect a biotic-slam of the highest potency.

Given that Miranda ranted Shepard only by him chatting with Jack or Tali, or any other female by following line '' Everyone on this ship must know you're mine. '' then Shepard should have the opportunity to inquire if there's any lingering nostalgia about the '' good old days '', as yourself have stated it.

It is obvious that there's nothing substantial between the two ( Jacob-Miranda ) which brings me to the next point;

Again, another part is proven -meaningless- The topic Jacob-Miranda is brought to question numerous times, and it just lingers there aimlessly. Why bring it out in the first place, if you strip it of any meaning or sense, or not lead it to a point. That's the most common flaw encountered in Mass Effect 2.

Re; Athanyel. You're talking about a possible scenario found one in a thousand cases..? Is more of a fairy-tales, but still, if I'll be the one in a thousand, I'll grant your statement acknowledgment.

Modifié par UserForFun, 15 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .