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[Athayniel]

UserForFun wrote...

Re; Athanyel. You're talking about a possible scenario found one in a thousand cases..? Is more of a fairy-tales, but still, if I'll be the one in a thousand, I'll grant your statement acknowledgment.

Trusting your SO is a one in a thousand case? I've found that if there isn't trust in a relationship it's guaranteed to fail. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because lack of trust implies a lack of respect and most people do not choose to stay in a relationship with someone who does not respect them.

It's better to trust and deal with anything that does happen.

[Ieldra]

UserForFun wrote...
Again, another part is proven -meaningless- The topic Jacob-Miranda is brought to question numerous times, and it just lingers there aimlessly. Why bring it out in the first place, if you strip it of any meaning or sense, or not lead it to a point. That's the most common flaw encountered in Mass Effect 2.

Some things are just there for fleshing out characters. This ex-relationship tells us beyond any doubt that Miranda has had relationships in the past, which you might consider interesting when talking about her as a character. Not everything needs a plot-related follow-up to have meaning. It tells you something about the characters, that's enough.

There are non-plot-critical things that really need a follow-up in my opinion. "Miranda and her father" is such an element. But "Miranda and Jacob" is not. Some people here want to see the relationship rekindled if Shepard doesn't romance Miranda, but I do not want that. Jacob said that Miranda requires a better man, and that's how things stand as far as I'm concerned.

[jtav]

I'm one that wants to see it rekindled, but do you honestly think BW would have either dump the player character without a goof-up you could see coming from a mile away? It disqualifies Jacob because I feel like his second choice but she seems genuinely into Shep if you romance her.

The jealousy here astounds me. The only thing I'm jealous of is not getting a scene that moved me the way the debrief did.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
The only thing I'm jealous of is not getting a scene that moved me the way the debrief did.

The debrief?

Re: Jacob's loyalty mission, the scene following that is one of my favorite, albeit relatively minor, Miranda moments in the game. It shows to what extent the "Loyalist" title extends beyond mere loyalty to an organisation. It's part of her character, in general, to have few but very strong ties of allegiance (now also to Shepard).

Modifié par flemm, 15 octobre 2011 - 03:51 .

[jtav]

The scene with TIM, Jacob, and Miranda afyer his LM. That look they share has me rooting for them as a couple.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

The scene with TIM, Jacob, and Miranda afyer his LM. That look they share has me rooting for them as a couple.

Ok, yeah. I actually think the scene says even more about Miranda if we presume that relationship is over romantically (which appears to be the case). But anyway, I do like the scene quite a bit.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Unless that was the plan all along - isn't that a scary thought?

I don't think so. It makes a certain amount of sense. If you were truly interested in creating a worthy heir, you would know that the individual in question could not be a servant or slave, devoid of initiative and independance. It's the one who wants to escape, who does escape that you would really want to keep. Hence the "Prodigal" title, which is also associated with Miranda. 

I think I've used this analogy before, but it's a bit like Sonny and Michael Corleone... Sonny seems like the natural choice, but in reality it's Michael, who strayed the furthest from the family business, who makes the best heir to the throne, and the Godfather knows it from the beginning.

Modifié par flemm, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:02 .

[jtav]

Oh, yes. Miranda's extraordinary loyalty, as you said. I think the relationship is over in the sense that it doesn't threaten their romances, but there's enough their that I think reconciliation is possible and potentially desirable.

And flemm, it's scary because Miranda was never free of her father'a machinations.

Modifié par jtav, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:02 .

[jtav]

And strangely, Jacob dies a good bit in my stories. The better to torture Miranda.

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
And flemm, it's scary because Miranda was never free of her father'a machinations.

Well, I actually think it would be cool to find this out. I mean, scary, yes, from Miranda's perspective. But cool from a story perspective.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Unless that was the plan all along - isn't that a scary thought?

I don't think so. It makes a certain amount of sense. If you were truly interested in creating a worthy heir, you would know that the individual in question could not be a servant or slave, devoid of initiative and independance. It's the one who wants to escape, who does escape that you would really want to keep. Hence the "Prodigal" title, which is also associated with Miranda. 

I think I've used this analogy before, but it's a bit like Sonny and Michael Corleone... Sonny seems like the natural choice, but in reality it's Michael, who strayed the furthest from the family business, who makes the best heir to the throne, and the Godfather knows it from the beginning.

It would make sense, as I explained to UserForFun. But it would still be scary because it would mean that Miranda's father is still pulling the strings.

Edit:
Oops, ninja'd.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:11 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It would make sense, as I explained to UserForFun. But it would still be scary because it would mean that Miranda's father is still pulling the strings.

Maybe, maybe not. To use the Michael Corleone example, it's not really about the Godfather pulling the strings, it's more about Michael realizing that he wanted this all along.

[jtav]

I think the situation is indeed very black and white. Miranda's LM was the best time for a subversion, but the big thing she was wrong about there was trusting Niket. And, well, she (probably) already left Cerberus. Anything with her father would be minor. The writers have bigger fish to fry.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
The scene with TIM, Jacob, and Miranda afyer his LM. That look they share has me rooting for them as a couple.

I'd like her to find someone who's more on her level. There's are only two who remotely qualify of those on Shepard's teams, and neither of them is Jacob. Your other preferred match is much more convincing, the only issue I have with it is that it's interspecies romance and that Liara is already pushed into players' faces too much.   

[UserForFun]

I disagree. Her father is the only obstacle in Miranda's path, that keeps restraining and binding her. She'll have to remove the shackles, and I think that dealing with her father should be a priority in her character-ark.

Modifié par UserForFun, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:28 .

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I think the situation is indeed very black and white. Miranda's LM was the best time for a subversion, but the big thing she was wrong about there was trusting Niket. And, well, she (probably) already left Cerberus. Anything with her father would be minor. The writers have bigger fish to fry.

Quite possibly, but it depends somewhat on whether her father ends up being important. That I could see swinging either way, tbh, especially given that apparently ME3 will explore the connection between the Alliance and Cerberus. This is where Miranda's father could play a significant role, if the writers chose to go in that direction. And, obviously, he is immortal, so he would be there in all games.

Modifié par flemm, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:22 .

[jtav]

It will also never, ever happen. Of the plausible, I'd prefer Kaidan, but even that's unlikely. And I'm an easy sell for "second chance" stories because those are my favorite romances.

But, yes, I'd vastly prefer Liara to Jacob.

[Ieldra]

flemm wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
It would make sense, as I explained to UserForFun. But it would still be scary because it would mean that Miranda's father is still pulling the strings.

Maybe, maybe not. To use the Michael Corleone example, it's not really about the Godfather pulling the strings, it's more about Michael realizing that he wanted this all along.

That's different. In Miranda's case there is the added element of being genetically engineered for the purpose, as well as socially. The threat to her existential feeling of being free is much more complete. Not that she wouldn't be able to get over that, but it's a thornier path.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:30 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
That's different. In Miranda's case there is the added element of being genetically engineered for the purpose, as well as socially. The thread to her existential feeling of being free is much more complete. Not that she wouldn't be able to get over that, but it's a thornier path.

Well, there would be a sort of tragic element, if the story went that way, which is already true in the Godfather. But it's not really about one person's will dominating another's, or the characters having no agency... it's more like a combination of different factors that starts to feel like fate or destiny.

[Ieldra]

UserForFun wrote...
I disagree. Her father is the only obstacle in Miranda's path, that keeps restraining and binding her. She'll have to remove the shackles, and I think that dealing with her father should be a priority in her character-ark.

The problem is that Miranda's father is a minor problem compared with everything else we're dealing with in ME3. ME3 is less about the characters' personal problem but about the galactic war. Miranda already has her Cerberus connection and a possible fallout of the Lazarus project as plot hooks.

But there is hope: Either Mac Walters or Casey Hudson have said they want to tie up all loose ends as much as possible. It might not happen on-screen, but I think we'll see something happen with regard to Miranda's father. Perhaps he'll die and it's revealed he leaves everything he owns to Miranda....

[UserForFun]

I think Miranda's only alternative apart from Shepard is Mordin.

Both Miranda and Mordin had a scientific breakthrough; ( Genophage and Revival ) Both are brilliant. Miranda envies him, and his time spent with the STG... Miranda obviously appreciates refined musical tastes... Thus, Mordin as a singer, and an admirer of art, can fulfil that quota.

What else..? He has a sense of humor, opposites attract!

Modifié par UserForFun, 15 octobre 2011 - 04:32 .

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
But there is hope: Either Mac Walters or Casey Hudson have said they want to tie up all loose ends as much as possible. It might not happen on-screen, but I think we'll see something happen with regard to Miranda's father.

We tend to think about this in a "loyalty mission" sort of way, where the father appears in Miranda-specific content. But the best chance is probably that Mr. Lawson ends up being an NPC in the game with a separate plot function of his own. Which is plausible, though entirely speculative.

[Eyeshield21]

Ieldra2 wrote...

UserForFun wrote...
I disagree. Her father is the only obstacle in Miranda's path, that keeps restraining and binding her. She'll have to remove the shackles, and I think that dealing with her father should be a priority in her character-ark.

The problem is that Miranda's father is a minor problem compared with everything else we're dealing with in ME3. ME3 is less about the characters' personal problem but about the galactic war. Miranda already has her Cerberus connection and a possible fallout of the Lazarus project as plot hooks.

But there is hope: Either Mac Walters or Casey Hudson have said they want to tie up all loose ends as much as possible. It might not happen on-screen, but I think we'll see something happen with regard to Miranda's father. Perhaps he'll die and it's revealed he leaves everything he owns to Miranda....

So like Miranda's father feels remorse or something? Unlikely, but I've seen stuff like that in movies and such, an only a few actually worked out.

[jtav]

Mordin is asexual. My preferred choices for Miranda are Liara, Kaidan, Thane, and Jacob, in that order. I don't consider Shepard a serious contender unless I'm writing him, and he's so OOC there I've mentally cast a different VA.

[Ieldra]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
But there is hope: Either Mac Walters or Casey Hudson have said they want to tie up all loose ends as much as possible. It might not happen on-screen, but I think we'll see something happen with regard to Miranda's father. Perhaps he'll die and it's revealed he leaves everything he owns to Miranda....

So like Miranda's father feels remorse or something? Unlikely, but I've seen stuff like that in movies and such, an only a few actually worked out.

Remorse? No. It might just be that she's the best option if he wants to keep things in the family. Miranda is arguably the most competent of his daughters even should she not be the only surviving one apart from Oriana.

@flemm:
Yes, the best hope for resolving this on-screen is that her father might appear in a plot-relevant context. I would like to see this, but I would be extremely surprised if it actually happened.

[flemm]

Ieldra2 wrote...
@flemm:
Yes, the best hope for resolving this on-screen is that her father might appear in a plot-relevant context. I would like to see this, but I would be extremely surprised if it actually happened.

Well, like any pure speculation, I guess it would be somewhat surprising to have it confirmed. But, on the other hand, we already know he's rich, powerful, had ties to Cerberus in the past, heads an organisation that must be at least reasonably prominent, etc. So, if a human NPC were needed somewhere in the Cerberus/Alliance section of the plot, he might be a logical choice.