82210 réponses à ce sujet

[flemm]

jtav wrote...

I'd actually like it if Miranda were mildly disfigured, but I've always loved Beauty and the Beast stories. And Shepard could either be a jerkass or prove he cares beyond the obvious. Miranda would be dumbfounded, I think.

Well, personally I wouldn't mind at all if they went quite far in that direction. The realities of video game design being what they are, I wouldn't expect anything too extreme, but I do think a change to reflect the harder life she's been living, perhaps on the run from Cerberus, or leading a strike team on hit-and-run attacks, is quite plausible. I would welcome it.

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'd actually like it if Miranda were mildly disfigured, but I've always loved Beauty and the Beast stories. And Shepard could either be a jerkass or prove he cares beyond the obvious. Miranda would be dumbfounded, I think.

Well, personally I wouldn't mind at all if they went quite far in that direction. The realities of video game design being what they are, I wouldn't expect anything too extreme, but I do think a change to reflect the harder life she's been living, perhaps on the run from Cerberus, or leading a strike team on hit-and-run attacks, is quite plausible. I would welcome it.

Same here. I can picture Miranda as a rebel.

[flemm]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Same here. I can picture Miranda as a rebel.

Cerberus Officer to Cerberus Renegade

[jtav]

Well, for me, it's straight up fanservice. Brooding? Check. Devoted to loved ones? Check. Morally grey? Check. Competent? Check. All she needs is some scarring to become my ideal romantic lead.

[Eyeshield21]

flemm wrote...

Eyeshield21 wrote...

Same here. I can picture Miranda as a rebel.

Cerberus Officer to Cerberus Renegade

Indeed.

[Eyeshield21]

jtav wrote...

Well, for me, it's straight up fanservice. Brooding? Check. Devoted to loved ones? Check. Morally grey? Check. Competent? Check. All she needs is some scarring to become my ideal romantic lead.

I would like to see a photoshoped sexy Miranda with scars please.
Edit: "Jonas Jameson: Parker! Get me pics of a scarred version of Miranda! On the double!"

Modifié par Eyeshield21, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:18 .

[Shotokanguy]

jtav wrote...

No bearing on her squad status. I'm just irked at people who couldn't give a rip about personality, just having a hot girl.

You're talking about Ashley fans? 

Let me get this off my chest - your posts seem to be growing increasingly irksome. I routinely find myself shaking my head when I read them. I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but I'm sure they can see what I'm talking about when I say you have an almost unhealthy interest in this series and its characters. 

It's not up to me to decide what you should or should not care about, but you frequently scorn the characters and the writers as if you think they belong to you. You talk about nuking any character that does not turn out the way you hope they will. You act as if you know exactly who and what Miranda is, but it approaches self righteousness, and no one should be so certain about this character, because I honestly, truly feel we don't know her as well as some of you might think. 

I'm never satisfied with these posts when I have to call someone out, but I hope that gets my idea across.

[CrutchCricket]

Eyeshield21 wrote...

flemm wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'd actually like it if Miranda were mildly disfigured, but I've always loved Beauty and the Beast stories. And Shepard could either be a jerkass or prove he cares beyond the obvious. Miranda would be dumbfounded, I think.

Well, personally I wouldn't mind at all if they went quite far in that direction. The realities of video game design being what they are, I wouldn't expect anything too extreme, but I do think a change to reflect the harder life she's been living, perhaps on the run from Cerberus, or leading a strike team on hit-and-run attacks, is quite plausible. I would welcome it.

Same here. I can picture Miranda as a rebel.

Ugh... why? Is this really necessary? I fail to see how this develops either Miranda's or Shepard's character in any relevant way. If this is just a morality check for players, I'm sure we'll have plenty of other ones that have far greater consequences than an optional romance sideplot. Not to mention it wouldn't make any damn sense anyway seeing as how Miranda restored Shepard to near baby smooth from a pile of ash and Shepard himself may have installed a whole plastic surgery module in the medbay. Facial scarring isn't character development. It's just inconvenient.

I like Miranda's appearance the way she is. I love the whole package; looks, skills personality. That doesn't mean I have to have part of it damaged just to prove my point.

Shotokanguy wrote...

jtav wrote...

No
bearing on her squad status. I'm just irked at people who couldn't give a
rip about personality, just having a hot girl.

You're talking about Ashley fans? 

Let
me get this off my chest - your posts seem to be growing increasingly
irksome. I routinely find myself shaking my head when I read them. I
don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but I'm sure they can see
what I'm talking about when I say you have an almost unhealthy interest in this series and its characters. 

It's
not up to me to decide what you should or should not care about, but
you frequently scorn the characters and the writers as if you think they
belong to you. You talk about nuking any character that does not turn
out the way you hope they will. You act as if you know exactly who and
what Miranda is, but it approaches self righteousness, and no one should
be so certain about this character, because I honestly, truly feel we
don't know her as well as some of you might think. 

I'm never satisfied with these posts when I have to call someone out, but I hope that gets my idea across.

I don't mean to start trouble but I second this and if I may add you also seem to project prejudices about players treating characters superficially. I'm sorry if you feel that to be an accurate representation of male gamers but I fail to see what relevance this has on the characters we're discussing? If some other player treats Miranda like a cheap floozy in ME3 will that change your experience at all? No, nor would it change any of ours. And to what extent they are able to do that depends soley on the game makers. And if there's one thing we can trust in is that they care about their characters and will not code them to be trashed at will.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:34 .

[enayasoul]

Yeah, do not want Miranda with any kind of disfigurement either. I don't see why it's necessary.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Ugh... why? Is this really necessary?

[...]

I like Miranda's appearance the way she is. I love the whole package; looks, skills personality. That doesn't mean I have to have part of it damaged just to prove my point.

I certainly don't think it's necessary. It doesn't "need" changing. But, if Miranda has gone from being a high-ranking officer in a powerful organisation, living comfortably, etc. to someone in a much more fragile situation, then her appearance is one way you might express that.

As long as it is driven by the story, then I think it could be an interesting choice. A simple change in attire or style is probably more likely than scarring or whatever. But you never know.

Modifié par flemm, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:33 .

[jtav]

Necessary? No. But we all have things that appeal to us, as well as drive us away in fiction. Scarred!Miranda pushes my buttons in a good way.

[CrutchCricket]

flemm wrote...

I certainly don't think it's necessary. It doesn't "need" changing. But, if Miranda has gone from being a high-ranking officer in a powerful organisation, living comfortably, etc. to someone in a much more fragile situation, then her appearance is one way you might express that.

As long as it is driven by the story, then I think it could be an interesting choice. A simple change in attire or style is probably more likely than scarring or whatever. But you never know.

Hmm. Unless she's ended up in the trenches I don't think disfigurment is warranted. Oh and another note. If you're coming at this from the "she used to live in comfort but now she's in battle all the time" angle, it might be interesting to see that another way- namely if she looks more underfed, dirtier, slouched, weaker looking etc. Those kinds of subtle changes would tell a world more than some scars.

*edit- gotta watch those double negatives...<_<

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:39 .

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Hmm. Unless she's ended up in the trenches I don't think disfigurment is unwarranted. Oh and another note. If you're coming at this from the "she used to live in comfort but now she's in battle all the time" it might be interesting to see that another way- namely if she looks more underfed, dirtier, slouched, weaker looking etc. Those kinds of subtle changes would tell a world more than some scars.

Well, as you say, there are a number of ways something like that could be expressed.

I think that, overall, it would be interesting to see Miranda deal with some adversity, with being in a position of weakness, and then her story in the game would be overcoming that, and digging herself out of that situation.

Any change in appearance would be secondary, but could help express that visually.

Not to mention that appearance can change over time, scars can heal, etc.

Modifié par flemm, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:44 .

[Radahldo]

how could looking dirty say more than a scar?

[jtav]

Pardon me for derailing, but since I've been called out in public, I'd like to respond in kind.

I'm under no illusions that I own or control any character. But there are certain traits and tropes I enjoy in characters and certain traits I despise. And, as it happens, the traits I loathe the most are perversions of the ones I love. The strong, morally ambiguous woman who is transformed into someone both more traditionally moral and with less agency because of a charismatic hero; the career woman who not only wants a child but abandons her career for the promise of family, rather than having both. I've seen these things happen and to characters I love. It disgusts me. And if that happens to Miranda, she won't be the character I thought she was, but a contemptible mockery. Am i strident about this. Yep. Because I don't want to lose my favorite. It's not the looks or the voice that draw me, it's the ambiguity mixed with the passion, the cynicism mixed with the idealism. Lose that, and you lose Miranda.

[CrutchCricket]

Radahldo wrote...

how could looking dirty say more than a scar?

Not everyone who's ever faced difficult circumstances has gotten their face messed up. Scars are generic and really the "easy way out".

Say the "traumatic experience" is more emotional in nature- how would a scar, or a broken limb communicate that? Not very well. However if you can visually tell that she's on the point of collapse; hasn't slept in days and her face has huge shadows and droops, if her eyes are literally not as bright, if she looks emanciated- now that's some visual development to match.

[typoo855]

LOL im surprised the topic hasnt come up before that the majority of the people in this forum have played mass effect 4 or more time

Scars would make everyone more bad****
BTW this is commander shepard's story so anything you hear about other LI will probably transfer to the ones we havent heard.

But if there arent anymore LI's or squad members than Bio Ware would be a total d1ck and that would be total horse**** because in my opinion only Tali and Liara were fully fleshed out and the best charecters were in ME2

[flemm]

jtav wrote...
Am i strident about this. Yep. Because I don't want to lose my favorite. It's not the looks or the voice that draw me, it's the ambiguity mixed with the passion, the cynicism mixed with the idealism. Lose that, and you lose Miranda.

I don't always agree with you, but I do understand where you're coming from.

CrutchCricket wrote...
Not everyone who's ever faced difficult circumstances has gotten their face messed up. Scars are generic and really the "easy way out".

In a sense I think that's true. Scars are like an easy visual way of expressing some sort of inward turmoil or traumatic experience. But they do also work pretty well.

As another advantage, they can express trauma while still looking pretty cool and attractive.

Modifié par flemm, 19 octobre 2011 - 02:58 .

[typoo855]

just imagine scarface without the scar
Who would he be then

[CrutchCricket]

jtav wrote...

Pardon me for derailing, but since I've been called out in public, I'd like to respond in kind.

I'm under no illusions that I own or control any character. But there are certain traits and tropes I enjoy in characters and certain traits I despise. And, as it happens, the traits I loathe the most are perversions of the ones I love. The strong, morally ambiguous woman who is transformed into someone both more traditionally moral and with less agency because of a charismatic hero; the career woman who not only wants a child but abandons her career for the promise of family, rather than having both. I've seen these things happen and to characters I love. It disgusts me. And if that happens to Miranda, she won't be the character I thought she was, but a contemptible mockery. Am i strident about this. Yep. Because I don't want to lose my favorite. It's not the looks or the voice that draw me, it's the ambiguity mixed with the passion, the cynicism mixed with the idealism. Lose that, and you lose Miranda.

Fair enough- but does this not happen in real life? The frequency doesn't matter but there are cases where these things happen right? Ergo there is a natural progression that could be followed. if a character follows this progression, not because of contrived circumstances but because that's simply what happens is it any less valid? I think not. Changing a character arbitrarily (or refusing for them to change for that matter) is the bigger crime I think. It is entirely reasonable for you to dislike where a character has ended up. But I don't think that character's worth should change as a result and I think being faithful to a character means allowing them to change if circumstances call for it.

[CrutchCricket]

typoo855 wrote...

just imagine scarface without the scar
Who would he be then

Just "face"?

Completely different situation if the scar is fundamentally part of their character.

[flemm]

CrutchCricket wrote...
Changing a character arbitrarily (or refusing for them to change for that matter) is the bigger crime I think. It is entirely reasonable for you to dislike where a character has ended up. But I don't think that character's worth should change as a result and I think being faithful to a character means allowing them to change if circumstances call for it.

I think you make some excellent points.

Mostly I think jtav is not referring to what we have already seen in ME2. But moreso to what she would prefer not to see in ME3: basically, Miranda reduced to a cliché of the career-driven women who discovers that she just wasn't in touch with her inner femininity prior to finding the right guy and, after finding him, decides she just wants to settle down and have kids.

As I've pointed out in the past to jtav, I don't think it is very plausible that we will see this in ME3. But if we did, I can see why jtav wouldn't like it.

For me, I can see being a fan of Miranda in a large array of different possible stories. Probably a broader range than some other fans. But I guess I wouldn't be happy with just anything either. It all depends on how it is handled.

Modifié par flemm, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:10 .

[typoo855]

Sorry for going off topic but i thought everyone would find this funny

In Jacob's loyalty mission the Ship they go on is named the Hugo Gernsback, Hugo Gernsback invented Sci-Fi and the sex magazines.

Think about that a little

[enayasoul]

typoo855 wrote...

Sorry for going off topic but i thought everyone would find this funny

In Jacob's loyalty mission the Ship they go on is named the Hugo Gernsback, Hugo Gernsback invented Sci-Fi and the sex magazines.

Think about that a little

Wow!  I just did a google search.   The most influential figure in american publishing.  That's very Interesting!  I never made the connection.   

Modifié par enayasoul, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:24 .

[enayasoul]

flemm wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...
Changing a character arbitrarily (or refusing for them to change for that matter) is the bigger crime I think. It is entirely reasonable for you to dislike where a character has ended up. But I don't think that character's worth should change as a result and I think being faithful to a character means allowing them to change if circumstances call for it.

I think you make some excellent points.

Mostly I think jtav is not referring to what we have already seen in ME2. But moreso to what she would prefer not to see in ME3: basically, Miranda reduced to a cliché of the career-driven women who discovers that she just wasn't in touch with her inner femininity prior to finding the right guy and, after finding him, decides she just wants to settle down and have kids.

As I've pointed out in the past to jtav, I don't think it is very plausible that we will see this in ME3. But if we did, I can see why jtav wouldn't like it.

For me, I can see being a fan of Miranda in a large array of different possible stories. Probably a broader range than some other fans. But I guess I wouldn't be happy with just anything either. It all depends on how it is handled.

I don't see what's so wrong with that cliche'... women are doing that right now.  Having a career, family and being sexy...  Why can't she be a kick-ass operative with family and looking sexy doing it?  :wub:

What I love about games and movies or even tv shows where they show a confident strong women who can kick ass and still be femine.  I admire those women.   Could be a reason why I like such female actors who portray those type of roles.  Angelina Jolie's Tomb Raider for one, Kate Beckinsale, and Vanessa Williams.  Character wise: Bastila, Lian Sun, Morrigan, Leilana, Isabela and Miranda...even ME2's Liara and ME1 Ash.)  All my favorite female leads.

As to the battle scar thing... Yeah you can show it by her being fatiqued and stuff like that... taking its toll on her body... dirty face okay maybe even a cut that's bleeding but Miranda does have fast healing so it wouldn't be cut for long.

Modifié par enayasoul, 19 octobre 2011 - 03:47 .